namelesstavern.net

So some white kids hang three nooses in a tree on the high school grounds in Jena Lousiana. They get suspended from school, but not charged with any crime. (Technically and legally, that is a hate crime) 6 black kids turn around and commence to beat the shit out of a white kid and are charged with attempted murder. WTF??

So now all these black people, Al Sharpton included, are rallying in Jena, LA in support of these kids. All of whom have been charged with lesser charges, one was convicted and it was overturned.

Thoughts?

My thought is they should have been charged with assault. And the white kids should have been charged with a hate crime. A noose? WTF?

How is a noose a racial issue?

its Lousiana, typical shit. they should have all been charged accordingly. both the black and the white kids.

side note:

Al Sharpton is a media whore. He just loves this crap to get his picture in the paper. They should have beat the shit out of him.

Hate crimes laws are basically laws that make it illegal to commit crimes under a particular motivation. I know that statement sounds pretty stupid, but that is pretty much the jist of it. Louisiana state law specifically lists crimes for which the motivations can be a crime. The majority of crimes sited deal with a definite victim, assault, rape ect. Vandalism is listed, however the way it is worded is that selection of the victim of vandalism is the basis for determining hate crime, not those who would view it.

Hanging anything on a tree providing there is no significant damage to the tree would be difficult to prosecute as vandalism. Unless the tree was owned by someone of a particular protected class further prosecution for a hate crime would be very difficult, as state statutes are all concerned with a definitive victim. It would be somewhat akin to watching someone get assaulted and then charging the perpetrator for a hate crime because it was witnessed by someone else. You would have to prove that those viewing the crime were victimized, that that victimization was intended, and that the intent was motivated out of hate for a protected section of people. In a court of public opinion the case might be open and shut, in a court of law it would be an uphill battle.

Regardless if you agree or disagree with hate crimes, there is a fairly major problem with them in that they deal with motivation for other crime. Proving action is often difficult, proving motivation is even more difficult. Remember a person in a court of law charged with a crime is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden of proof is on the state, the odds are stacked in favor of the defendant already. Proving action is generally difficult, proving motivation is infinitively more so. Proving vandalism in this case is probably unlikely without property damage which is why I suspect charges were not filed. Beyond that proving that the victim (owner of the property) was selected out of racial motivation is quite likely not even possible.

As far as the assault, there is a definitive victim, and if it could be proven that it was reactionary to the previous incident there would likely be a good chance of tacking on a hate crime.

how is hanging a noose from a tree a crime at all?

I mean, i can see if they're sitting there threatening to hang a dude then sure, but just putting the noose(s) up there shouldn't really be more than say uttering threats

People like to turn nothing into an explosion.

white trash + any minorities = media frenzy and lots of stupidity

Tikker wrote:how is burning a cross in someone's front yard a crime at all?

I mean, i can see if they're sitting there threatening to crucify and/or burn a dude then sure, but just burning the cross shouldn't really be more than say uttering threats

Put it in that perspective.

Have you ever been to the Deep South Tikker? Life is not the same there. When someone does something like that, it is a definite threat. Unfortunately, lynchings still happen on a somewhat regular basis in that region.

Tikker wrote:how is hanging a noose from a tree a crime at all?

I mean, i can see if they're sitting there threatening to hang a dude then sure, but just putting the noose(s) up there shouldn't really be more than say uttering threats

Most hate crime legislation does have a provision for intent of intimidation of the victim. So say for instance if these people had carved nooses into a tree on property owned by a black person, the case would be ideal for prosecution of vandalism (defacement and destruction) as well as including charges for a hate crime as as the intimidation and or threat would be very overt toward a definitive victim.

burning a cross is a bit more specific than hanging a noose

ps, i'm not defending anyone here, just making a point

I think the point 10sun was trying to make was that what a noose generally represents to people in the South, is not much different then what a burning cross represents, if that puts it into perspective for you.

It really isn't any more specific unless you put it into a certain time and place.

In fact it doesn't even connote violence, let alone the threat of death.

For a black person in that region, the two are both symbols of lingering hatred and prejudice.

fair enough

you guys need to nuke your southern states into a parking lot and start over

My question is how badly did those black guys beat the white guys? Was it a black eye and a few bruises or did they really do a number on them. Did at any point those black guys ever say "I am going to kill them" even it was just a figure of speech? If they did, then the attack could be considered attempted murder. Maybe someone should have mentioned to them that they live in the south and that kicking the shit out of some white boys who didn't lay a finger on you is probably a bad idea.

All I see is it says they stomped and kicked him. And from what I know, once you start the kicking while someone is down, theres your assault with a deadly weapon or worse

Evermore wrote:its Lousiana, typical shit. they should have all been charged accordingly. both the black and the white kids.

side note:

Al Sharpton is a media whore. He just loves this crap to get his picture in the paper. They should have beat the shit out of him.

Yup. Sharpton is part of the problem, not the solution.

Just to add, the noose part is in dispute. The only thing not in dispute is the 6 black kids who beat the crap out of a white kid.

I doubt most of you have read the full story.

The troubles began in summer 2006, when a black student, Kenneth Purvis, asked the school's principal during an August assembly if he could sit under the "white tree," a large, shady tree on campus that had traditionally been a hangout for white students. The principal said students could sit wherever they wanted, but the next morning, three nooses were discovered hanging from the tree. The students responsible were found and expulsion was recommended by the principal, but LaSalle Parish Schools Superintendent Roy Breithaupt disagreed and reduced the punishment to three days of in-school suspension, saying the noose hanging seemed more like a prank than a threat. [How do you feel about the noose hanging? Was it just a prank or was it a threat because territory was being invaded?]

Apparently angered by the reduced punishment, a group of black students organized a sit-in under the tree in September that was dispersed by police, who had already responded to several calls of fights between black and white students after the noose incident. A school assembly that month, at which white and black students pointedly sat on opposite sides, didn't help matters, as a local district attorney — upset at his inability to calm the room down — reportedly glared at the side of the room where the black students were sitting, held up a pen and said, "with one stroke of my pen, I can make your life disappear."

Tensions continued to mount and police were called in to patrol the halls of the school, which was put on total lockdown the week of September 8, 2006. Several days later, the school board rejected a request by some black students to address the issues plaguing the school, saying they felt the noose incident had been resolved satisfactorily.

Things were relatively quiet for much of the rest of September and October, mostly due to the soaring fortunes of the football team. But shortly after the season ended on November 30, a fire burned down the main academic building of Jena High School in what was believed to be arson, with blacks pointing the finger at whites and vice versa.

The fire preceded a series of ugly racial conflicts that escalated tensions in the town. The night after the fire, then-16-year-old Robert Bailey Jr. was attacked and beaten when he and some black friends attempted to enter a party that was mostly attended by whites. On December 2, Bailey got into a verbal altercation with a white student who had also attended the party, with the white teen running to his truck and pulling out a shotgun. Bailey and his friends chased the teen and took the gun away, leading to charges of theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery and disturbing the peace for Bailey, while the student who pulled the weapon was not charged at all.

At Jena High School that Monday, December 4, a white student, Justin Barker, 17, was allegedly overheard bragging to friends about how Bailey had been whipped by a white man. When he stepped into the school's courtyard, Barker was attacked by a group of black students who knocked Barker out with one punch and then kicked him in the head repeatedly. He was treated and released from a local hospital and attended a party later that night, while the six were arrested and all but the 14-year-old charged as adults.

In June, on the morning of his trial, the charges against Bell were reduced to aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy. The black community again protested, taking issue with the battery charge, which requires the use of a "deadly weapon" — in this case the gym shoe that Bell was wearing when he kicked Barker. District Attorney Reed Walters argued the shoe was indeed a deadly weapon.

Bell was found guilty by an all-white jury — which included two people who were allegedly friendly with the DA and one who was a friend of the victim's father — after his court-appointed public defender did not call any witnesses. He now faces up to 22 years in prison at his sentencing hearing on Thursday — the conspiracy charge was dropped on September 4 and the battery conviction overturned on Friday when a court of appeals ruled that Bell should not have been tried as an adult. He remains in jail while prosecutors deliberate whether to file new charges against him in juvenile court. [Over 9 months in jail over this school yard fight]

The charges against Jones and Shaw were also reduced to aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy on September 4, with Bailey's charges also reduced on September 10. Bryant Purvis has yet to be arraigned in the case and is the only remaining Jena Six member to be charged as an adult with attempted second-degree murder. Many of the young men remained in jail for months because their families could not afford their bail, which ranged from $70,000 for Purvis to $138,000 for Bailey.

------------

Granted, I don't know all of the details. By no means condone the actions of the black kids. However, it sounds like a pretty fucked up situation.

-Adam

ps. the school officials cut down the tree that all of this was started over.

The noose thing is not something you can charge anyone for. There's nothing concrete about it. Yeah it's obvious why its there, but they could've easily said it was for something else. Jumping up and yelling hate crime everytime you see rope is retarded.

The 6 kids beating the tar out of the white kids, that's definately something they should be tried and potentially convicted for. However, the only thing I support in respect to the black kids is for them to get a fair trial, which they aren't. Once they get a fair trial and if they get convicted for attempted murder, I'm ok with that.

it's definitely fucked up

I can't believe the kid who ran and got the shotgun got off scott free, that's just wrong imo

I think the 6 kids who stomped the 1 kid after he was unconscious should have been charged tho, there's not much call to do that unless you're trying to beat someone to death

Tikker wrote:it's definitely fucked up

I can't believe the kid who ran and got the shotgun got off scott free, that's just wrong imo

Not just that, but the kids were charged with theft of a firearm? Imagine if that was the sort of judicial system at work everywhere? Someone pulls a gun on you and you disarm him... you get charged with theft of a firearm??? what the flying fuck?

Tikker wrote:I think the 6 kids who stomped the 1 kid after he was unconscious should have been charged tho, there's not much call to do that unless you're trying to beat someone to death

It wasn't serious injuries from what I read. The white kid was discharged that same day and went out partying.

10sun wrote:
It wasn't serious injuries from what I read. The white kid was discharged that same day and went out partying.

doesn't matter, imo

continuing to stomp an unconscious dude is just over the top wrong imo, especially when 6 of them jumped him to begin with

he probably deserved an ass kicking, but line up and wtfpwn him 1 at a time

the charge of theft of the firearm is racist, zanchief stylez

Tikker wrote:the charge of theft of the firearm is racist, zanchief stylez

Untrue. Harrison assured me that racism was dead.

As dead as Mindia's brain cells & Yamori's sex drive? or just kinda sleeping like all those animals on the side of the road?

Yea the story is pretty crazy. I don't personally have any problem with them charging the kids with battery, assault etc. But attempted murder for assaulting someone who walked away that same day and then went to a party? Also why aren't they pressing charges against the group of white kids that beat the Bailey kid up at the party? They claim that no one will come forward to say who did it although there are many witnesses. Kids get in fights all over this country day in and day out. Kids get jumped frequently as well. I've never heard of a case in which the person did not end up seriously injured resulting in a charge of Attempted Murder. It's really just total crap. They're planning to ruin 6 young mens lives for an impulsive albeit idiotic schoolyard incident. 22 years for a fight when there are much more serious crimes that get a slap on the wrist. What ever happened to the punishment fitting the crime.

P.S. Al Sharpton and Jessi Jackson are attention whoring idiots. At first they didn't even take an interest in the case because it wasn't really being widely focused on. I remember that one radio show I listen to on the way to work was specifically speaking about how it was strange that they had yet to step into the situation. Once it reached more people and got more Media attention, they stepped in. I don't discount that sometimes the presence of these two idiots does seem to make a positive difference, but imo they have such a negative image to some, it also brings some bad feelings towards the cases they "take on".

The problem with your article is it is incomplete, Adam.

Also, the Bailey kid's story is complete hearsay and there is no record of any medical treatment Haylo, or anything.

The white kid was stomped into unconsciousness and then continuously kicked. The charges were vastly overblown however and rightly should have been downgraded.

It sounds like this whole town is a seething pile, and there are major issues on all sides.

This will turn into a media event that will do nothing but stoke the fires of racial segregation even more, as race baiters like Sharpton show up

From wikipedia:

Jena Six refers to a group of six African American teenagers who have been arrested and charged with crimes related to their alleged involvement in the assault of a European American teenager in Jena, Louisiana, on December 4, 2006. The incident is one of many racially charged events that have occurred in the town since what some have called a prank and others say recalls the history of lynching involving the "white tree" on the Jena High School campus. Critics of how the case was handled, including civil rights leaders Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, have said that the arrests and subsequent charges were racially motivated.[1] Some residents of the town, both Caucasian and African American, have expressed the view that the current problem is more the fault of outsiders using racial politics to influence the justice system. Additionally, U.S. Attorney Donald Washington, who is black, has expressed the opinion that although discipline was mishandled by the school, he found no reason to believe that there was any unfair judicial action

I'm not going to go post a bunch of links etc here, but i've read more than one account of the story that mentions the white kids medical treatment and that he was released the same day and was out at a party that night. The fact that the kid was not seriously injured is one of the major focal points for this entire thing. Don't you think that if he was more seriously injured than is being reported by the people on the side of the Jena 6, it would have already been put out there by the prosecutors to justify their charges? Also no one on either side seems to be disputing the fact that the black kid went to a party where the majority of the attendees were white and was beat up. If there is an account out there doing that, then I apologize and i'd love to read it.