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Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:28 am
by Harrison
Frontman to File-Sharers: Steal Our Album, Help Bury the Label
Written by enigmax on October 09, 2007
Revolver Magazine called them part of “The Future of Metal” and they reportedly “destroyed” the second stage at Ozzfest. Now frontman of the band ‘Throwdown’ is calling on file-sharing fans to take action: “If you wanna really support a band, steal their album….help bury the label.”
Throwdown
For a record boss with piracy on his mind, it must be a nightmare. Rather than being able to bask in the glory of a record breaking punishment for a petty file-sharer for evermore, the very people the label claim to protect - the artists - turn round to the label and stick in the knife. Hard.
The frontman of hardcore band, Throwdown has done just that. According to Punknews.org, Dave Peters (seen here on the far left) wrote a letter to Santa Monica-based industry watcher, Bob Lefsetz. Peters told him:
“I play in a metal band. We have sold around 200k records across 3 releases. We’re not ‘huge’ by any stretch but do alright and live off (and ON subsequently) the road. Fans and friends ask me all the time how I feel about “stealing music.” I just told someone yesterday “I have a hard time seeing it as stealing…when I don’t see any money from cd sales to begin with.”
Bob Lefsetz, ex-entertainment business attorney and author of the “The Lefsetz Letter” email newsletter, covers important issues right at the heart of the industry, including the declines of the record label and physical music formats such as the CD.
As the world increasingly ‘goes digital’, some people still insist on using terms that only describe the physical world accurately. One such word used to erroneously describe downloading is ‘theft’, but clearly no-one has had their property stolen and Peters agrees: “What are they actually TAKING from me?”
Indicating his displeasure with the industry he goes on:
“If you want to squeeze an opinion on theft out of me, ask me about the dude that grabbed our tshirt off the table tonight in Detroit or better yet.. ask me about record contracts.”
..and a message to the file-sharers out there:
“I encourage our fans to acquire our album however they please. The philosophy I’ve adopted is that if you’re supporting disc sales, you’re keeping the old model around longer…the one that forces dudes like me to tour 9 mos/year if they want to make ends meet with a career in music.”
Ending with a final insult for the record business, Peters hits a sweet note that will likely resonate with many as they reflect on the record labels future usefulness:
“If you wanna really support a band, “steal” their album….help bury the label….and buy a tshirt when you show up at their show and sing every word.”
Throwdown’s latest album, ‘Venom and Tears’ came out in July
Oh so true, and exactly what I've been saying for years. I speak with assloads of artists personally about this and this is EXACTLY what they've been saying all along.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:30 am
by Harrison
The entire music industry would be immensely better off without huge money-grubbing record labels. Quality of music would rise, in my opinion, drastically.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:35 am
by Harrison
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:48 am
by Zanchief
As the world increasingly ‘goes digital’, some people still insist on using terms that only describe the physical world accurately. One such word used to erroneously describe downloading is ‘theft’, but clearly no-one has had their property stolen and Peters agrees: “What are they actually TAKING from me?”
HAHA so true. What is being TAKEN.
They should just call it rape or murder. It would be even more sensational.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:10 am
by Evermore
Harrison wrote:The entire music industry would be immensely better off without huge money-grubbing record labels. Quality of music would rise, in my opinion, drastically.
QFT
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:29 am
by recks
Harrison wrote:The entire music industry would be immensely better off without huge money-grubbing record labels. Quality of music would rise, in my opinion, drastically.
The quality will rise because producers will not be bound to create "commercial" products but without the major record labels there is no commercial anything, which means no money. No money for record distribution which means nothing gets heard. Imagine trying to self promote yourself to the world, the Internet is great but no one is gonna hear you unless they dig through shit loads of do it yourself sound click/myspace pages. Also kiss goodbye your music videos because without that advance you have no money to make them.
I love the small indie labels but they don't have money to distribute your album like the majors, the industry is designed to keep the artist in debt, removing the major labels will just increase the hole which the artist is in. The guys complaining that he has to tour for 9 months of the year? wow cry harder, you are doing something you love for a job and are getting paid, it may not be well, but you are still getting paid. He is living off touring sure, but he can only tour because 200k people brought his album thanks to his label, without the label the band is nothing.
thats not to say that I don't think CD prices should be brought way down because I do
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:35 am
by Tikker
I was going to say, the guy who's selling 200k albums total is a dipshit
I'm sure they signed their recording contract for $0, so that they could earn $0 per album sold
they got their money in advance, so telling people to now steal the product is just lame beyond belief
if they really wanted to make it work properly, they'd set it up so that everything was 50/50
ie, record company puts up 50% of the upfront money to produce/distribute the album, the band puts up the other half
then for every album sold, you split the profit 50/50
then all the bands whine and cry that they can't afford that while starting out (which is probably true 99% of the time) so they have to make a deal where the record company puts up all the development money, and then recoups the upfront money via record sales
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:36 am
by Harrison
You obviously have no idea how it works tikker lol
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:40 am
by Tikker
Harrison wrote:You obviously have no idea how it works tikker lol
sure i do, but feel free to enlighten us, since you know everything
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:50 am
by Evermore
most bands, especially new bands make their money touring and selling product. once the band gets a name, then they can negoiate a better deal with the record company. when a new group cuts a record, they typically do not put up anything except their intellectual property. the record deal allows the record company to exclusively market said materials and take a good chunk of the profits.
it makes sense what that guy said. they arent putting up the cash.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:52 am
by Tikker
Evermore wrote:most bands, especially new bands make their money touring and selling product. once the band gets a name, then they can negoiate a better deal with the record company. when a new group cuts a record, they typically do not put up anything except their intellectual property. the record deal allows the record company to exclusively market said materials and take a good chunk of the profits.
it makes sense what that guy said. they arent putting up the cash.
why would they ever get a better record deal from the establishment tho, if they're encouraging the public to not reimburse the company for putting out their album
(ie, record company sees sales of 87 albums. why in the world would they then decide to give the band MORE money to record an album that the band will tell the public to steal? )
you essentially said exactly the same thing I did, except you somehow came to the conclusion that it's a good idea
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:53 am
by Evermore
recks wrote:I love the small indie labels but they don't have money to distribute your album like the majors, the industry is designed to keep the artist in debt, removing the major labels will just increase the hole which the artist is in. The guys complaining that he has to tour for 9 months of the year? wow cry harder, you are doing something you love for a job and are getting paid, it may not be well, but you are still getting paid. He is living off touring sure, but he can only tour because 200k people brought his album thanks to his label, without the label the band is nothing.
thats not to say that I don't think CD prices should be brought way down because I do
apparently you never heard of Motley Crue. ( to name one )
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:56 am
by Evermore
Tikker wrote:Evermore wrote:most bands, especially new bands make their money touring and selling product. once the band gets a name, then they can negoiate a better deal with the record company. when a new group cuts a record, they typically do not put up anything except their intellectual property. the record deal allows the record company to exclusively market said materials and take a good chunk of the profits.
it makes sense what that guy said. they arent putting up the cash.
why would they ever get a better record deal from the establishment tho, if they're encouraging the public to not reimburse the company for putting out their album
you essentially said exactly the same thing I did, except you somehow came to the conclusion that it's a good idea
I dont see where i said it was a good idea. I said what that guy was saying made sense. the movement in the industry is to break the stranglehold the major labels have on it. In truth, with today's technology you really dont need them. the advantage currently the advertising that comes with the deal.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:09 am
by Tikker
Evermore wrote:
I dont see where i said it was a good idea. I said what that guy was saying made sense.
it only makes sense if you're somehow going to produce and distribute your own albums
now, with being able to just set up a webpage, and sell shit via download it's viable
it's still pretty hard to start out that way tho
you have to get word out about the band, and that advertising is worth something
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:13 am
by recks
Evermore wrote:
apparently you never heard of Motley Crue. ( to name one )
They have their own label NOW sure, but they still were brought up by Elektra who made them a commercial hit, thus making them money to be able to do that.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:16 am
by Yamori
Also kiss goodbye your music videos because without that advance you have no money to make them.
Good riddance. Maybe if those lame things disappeared CDs would be cheaper.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:21 pm
by Evermore
recks wrote:Evermore wrote:
apparently you never heard of Motley Crue. ( to name one )
They have their own label NOW sure, but they still were brought up by Elektra who made them a commercial hit, thus making them money to be able to do that.
incorrect. they sold 20,000 records on their
own label LeathurRecords. THEN Electra noticed and signed them.
the original Too Fast for Love was release on that label with their first song that got any radio play.
Live Wire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Fast_for_Lovehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6tley_Cr%C3%BCeEDIT: added links
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:43 pm
by recks
I still stand by my quote, they needed Elektra to make them a commercial hit, 20k is not commercial success although it IS very impressive to do on your own
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:20 pm
by Naethyn
Yamori wrote:Also kiss goodbye your music videos because without that advance you have no money to make them.
Good riddance. Maybe if those lame things disappeared CDs would be cheaper.
When's the last time MTV played a music video? Needs to be renamed to RealityTV.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:48 pm
by Tikker
the point still stands tho
bands sign record contracts
in general the deal is up front money for the band, in return the band gives the label a product to sell
once you get really successful, you can tie in and grab a portion of the sales as well
bands still make most of their money on the live show and merchandise
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:48 pm
by brinstar
Naethyn wrote:When's the last time MTV played a music video? Needs to be renamed to RealityTV.
totally
why even make a music video anymore, there are no outlets for them
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:05 pm
by 10sun
brinstar wrote:Naethyn wrote:When's the last time MTV played a music video? Needs to be renamed to RealityTV.
totally
why even make a music video anymore, there are no outlets for them
YouTube for real.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:47 am
by Evermore
recks wrote:I still stand by my quote, they needed Elektra to make them a commercial hit, 20k is not commercial success although it IS very impressive to do on your own
they neede Elektra for the distribution. They didnt have the resources available at that time. remember this is the 80's. MTV was just comming out. Oh and 20k on your own label was absolutely HUGE at that time in the industry. no one was even close to doing that. Hell after they signed Crue, the record labels were signing any group who's drummer played a double base. it was crazy.
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:32 am
by Tikker
Evermore wrote:recks wrote:I still stand by my quote, they needed Elektra to make them a commercial hit, 20k is not commercial success although it IS very impressive to do on your own
they neede Elektra for the distribution. They didnt have the resources available at that time.
so what you're saying is that without a real label, they wouldn't have been nearly as successful
like it or not, artists need someone with big money to front the cost for them until they can become financially successful
Re: Fuck these people, secondary line of argument
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:40 am
by Ouchyfish
All they have to do is call the inventors hotline and claim they invented a new album.