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Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:42 am
by Griever
I've heard it discussed here before that PC FPSers are far more skilled than platform FPSers, and that if a Platform FPSer would move to PC he would get slaughtered (which is probably true).
I just happened to be reminded of this topic as I was playing Rainbow Six: Las Vegas on Xbox Live lastnight and a thought occurred to me that, perhaps, platform FPSers are actually MORE skilled because the type of control they use is far less precise. PC FPSers using a mouse would have a much easier time aiming and reacting to moving targets. It makes me believe that a PC FPSer would have a harder time transitioning to platform than a platformer to the PC.
Now, I am not siding one way or the other, but I wanted to bring this topic here because I know some of you feel pretty strongly about this stuff and I think it would be fun to watch you guys verbally abuse eachother.
Enjoy.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:56 am
by Lyion
Since this topic does not include abortion, politics, drugs, Bush, Clinton, Canada, or women and their gold digging nature I doubt we'll see much of a flame war.
The general consensus is a good mouse and keyboard player using such, playing against a good console gamepad player would generally slaughter said player due to many of the points you have made. I can scan 360, acquire a target, and kill it in a blink on a keyboard and a mouse. The same just isn't true with a Xbox Pad, since the level of control and precision as you rightly said is not there, at least not for me.
Once you put both players on the same field, then it just comes down to who has the most experience and the better twitch factor.
Keyboard/Mouse players aren't better than console players. Using a keyboard and a mouse is just faster and more precise. It's like saying a person shooting a bazooka has better aim than a person with a glock, because he can do more damage. It's just not a good comparison and really a better comparison is the player using the same controls.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:04 am
by Tikker
Lyion wrote:Keyboard/Mouse players aren't better than console players. Using a keyboard and a mouse is just faster and more precise.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:48 am
by Griever
But would you go as far to say that it takes more skill to play with a platform controller than it does with a keyboard and mouse?
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:57 am
by Tossica
Griever wrote:But would you go as far to say that it takes more skill to play with a platform controller than it does with a keyboard and mouse?
Yes. It takes way more skill to get good with a controller than it does with a keyboard and mouse.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:05 am
by Tikker
no it doesn't
it just takes a different skill set
head to head, a keyboard/mouse is going to absolutely wtfpwn a joystick user, unless you code the game to cripple the responsiveness of the mouse
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:16 am
by Lyion
Griever wrote:But would you go as far to say that it takes more skill to play with a platform controller than it does with a keyboard and mouse?
I think they both have a learning curve, but I believe the high end for a mouse/keyboard player is much higher than a gamepad one, so by association it is less forgiving.
The level of range and precision for a Console Controller is <----->
The level of range and precision for a keyboard mouse is <-------------------------->
The people who suck with console controllers are much more competitive than the people who suck with a keyboard and a mouse. I actually think it's tougher for a keyboard/mouse player due to the top end people being that much better, due to the advanced precision and more rapid controls and response of the top tier. There isn't nearly the amount of precision and control for a gamepad so the bottom tier is much closer to the top tier and it allows for a lot more balance.
I think it's harder to be a top tier player on consoles due to the balance factor and the fact twitch and control isn't as important, but I likewise believe consoles are easier and more forgiving than keyboard mouse FPS games.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:23 am
by Tossica
Lyion wrote:Griever wrote:But would you go as far to say that it takes more skill to play with a platform controller than it does with a keyboard and mouse?
I think they both have a learning curve, but I believe the high end for a mouse/keyboard player is much higher than a gamepad one, so by association it is less forgiving.
The level of range and precision for a Console Controller is <----->
The level of range and precision for a keyboard mouse is <-------------------------->
The people who suck with console controllers are much more competitive than the people who suck with a keyboard and a mouse. I actually think it's tougher for a keyboard/mouse player due to the top end people being that much better, due to the advanced precision and more rapid controls and response of the top tier. There isn't nearly the amount of precision and control for a gamepad so the bottom tier is much closer to the top tier and it allows for a lot more balance.
I think it's harder to be a top tier player on consoles due to the balance factor and the fact twitch and control isn't as important, but I likewise believe consoles are easier and more forgiving than keyboard mouse FPS games.
I don't think you play many FPS against other players on your console. You will have your ass absolutely handed to you if you are not on top of your game. I can't believe how good some of the kids on LIVE are. Easily on par with any keyboard and mouse players I've played against considering the handicap that the controller has.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:26 am
by Naethyn
The highest payed gamer in the world wins his money on the 360.
Consoles win.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:40 am
by Tikker
uh no, that's pretty much irrelevant to the conversation
ps, he's not making more money than some of the MMO farmers
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:19 pm
by Harrison
This argument is dumb.
The controller is too limited. Sure you can be fucking nasty with a controller, but that's exactly it. You're good with an inferior setup.
PC FPS players look down upon the console players for good reason. It's a fucking joke in comparison to a real FPS.
I play them quite often with friends, but they're not exactly pros either. I make them look foolish on the very game they spend hundreds of hours on. I've maybe over the years put a fraction of that.
The skillsets transfer, but the PC is a whole different world and your best console FPS player will still be THAT much behind us. I have little trouble with the controller, it's just pathetically limited.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:39 pm
by 10sun
There are more to games than just controls.
Strategy, communication, and tactics.
That being said,
Give a PC gamer a controller and chances are he won't do as well as a console gamer.
Give a console gamer a keyboard and mouse and he won't do as well as a PC gamer.
Pit a console gamer against a PC gamer in the same game without controller limitations and the PC gamer has the advantage due to the mouse being far more responsive than any controller could hope to be.
As a PC gamer: I can rocket jump, bunny hop, strafe run, and use all sorts of other "trick" moves that PC gamers consider to be the standard whereas most console gamers just don't have any idea that the game engine will allow for those, let alone know how to perform them.
Give me a controller and I can pull some of those moves off, but many of them are nearly impossible due to the lack of response available. Especially the grenade & rocket jumps I utilized all the time in Quake CTF variants... nearly impossible to routinely pull off using a controller.
-Adam
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:04 pm
by Griever
Harrison wrote:This argument is dumb.
The controller is too limited. Sure you can be fucking nasty with a controller, but that's exactly it. You're good with an inferior setup.
PC FPS players look down upon the console players for good reason. It's a fucking joke in comparison to a real FPS.
I play them quite often with friends, but they're not exactly pros either. I make them look foolish on the very game they spend hundreds of hours on. I've maybe over the years put a fraction of that.
The skillsets transfer, but the PC is a whole different world and your best console FPS player will still be THAT much behind us. I have little trouble with the controller, it's just pathetically limited.
I guess what I'm trying to point out is that you have players exposed to two different types of circumstances, yet PC gamers consider themselves far superior to console gamers just because they are using a far more ideal means of control.
In a way its like PC gamers trying to say they are superior because they can jump higher on the moon than console gamers can on earth.
Or a PC gamer with an assault rifle saying they would rape a console gamer 1v1 with a knife.
Now lets say there is a tournament between 20 people for both platforms and we have two friends who enter named PC Gamer A and Console Gamer B. PC Gamer A comes in third in his respective tourney and Console Gamer B comes in first in his tourney. So in this scenario, the PC Gamer with far more ideal equipment coming in third is better than a gamer with limited equipment dominating his peers? I'm will to say that if both gamers came in first the console gamer would still be more skilled because he had to overcome much more difficulty and limitations.
Or we could just be arguing apples and oranges.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:18 pm
by Tikker
Griever wrote:I guess what I'm trying to point out is that you have players exposed to two different types of circumstances, yet PC gamers consider themselves far superior to console gamers just because they are using a far more ideal means of control.
plug a controller into a computer via usb
map the controls to the joystick
attempt to not die every 3 seconds
come back and explain how someone with a controller is in even the same league as someone with a mouse
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:47 pm
by Harrison
I'm will to say that if both gamers came in first the console gamer would still be more skilled because he had to overcome much more difficulty and limitations.
No, because as was said before, it's more of a decision based on the RANGE of skill in both games.
The range of skill with console players' competitive level is much smaller. They're all good but the controller is keeping them all in the same tiny range.
This doesn't happen with a competitive PC player. The range is fucking huge between the top players top to bottom.
Also the console FPS games just have shittier mechanics by far. They'd shit bricks with half the shit going on in a competitive PC atmosphere.
But I'll agree that it's mostly apples and oranges up until you include the SKILLS you have to learn to even compete in the PC world. 10sun said most of them, depending on what the specific game's engine/mechanics allow.
Strafe jumping, wall strafing, bunny hopping, rocket jumping, grenade jumping, wiggle walking, 180hops combined with a bunny hop once you reach a certain runspeed #, etc.
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:32 pm
by LostCause
Any Counter Strike Source players here ????
If so
Rubbahs22 add me
Re: Platform FPSers VS PC FPSers
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:20 pm
by Lyion
Is that you on Steam? I mostly play TF2, but also dabble with CS and COD4