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Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:58 pm
by Lueyen
From what I saw Obama "won", but I stopped watching after neither candidate took exception to the characterization of the Presidency as "ruling the country".
We are so fucked.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:27 pm
by Arlos
McCain did an excellent job of steering economy questions away from the current crisis and more towards anti-earmarks, etc. where he has the advantage.
On the other hand, Obama actually took it to McCain in the foreign policy sections. Got in perhaps the best dig of the night when he brought up McCain not remembering that Spain is a european country and a NATO ally, etc.
Overall, it was pretty close, honestly.
Now, one BIG area that Obama DID do vastly better in this is appear a much more even-tempered and reasonable person. McCain appeared grumpy, dismissive and downright surly at times. Not to mention, he never even once was willing to meet Obama eye to eye. Obama, on the other hand, appeared even-tempered, congenial, and far more personable. He kept looking directly at McCain, and was far far more gracious.
The 2 quick polls I've heard, 1 was from CBS and was of independent/undecided voters, and they apparently scored it 39% Obama, 37% tie, 24% McCain, but more importantly, Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight, and only thirty-two percent said their opinion of McCain got better. Also,sixty-six percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy, and only forty-two percent think McCain would.
The other poll was among all voters had it something like Obama 50%, McCain 30%, tie 20%.
In any case, Obama definitely completed one objective today: He definitely came across as presidential, which was important.
-Arlos
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:28 pm
by Trielelvan
Well, we are fucked no matter what happens. It's just a matter of how badly at this point.
I still think the Republicans are trying to lose on purpose... this is what scares me.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:46 pm
by Lueyen
Trielelvan wrote:I still think the Republicans are trying to lose on purpose... this is what scares me.
on
Although I have not researched and verified it myself, I recall some allegations that McCain received funding from George Soros via a proxy organization. And he's had fund raisers for Obama.
My conspiracy theory here goes much deeper (don't they all). But I look at things and have to wonder how much truth there is to your statement.
off
Fyi I started drinking after said "ruler" reference take the above with a grain of salt.
Edit:
LEHRER: Before we go to another lead question. Let me figure out a way to ask the same question in a slightly different way here. Are you -- are you willing to acknowledge both of you that this financial crisis is going to affect the way you rule the country as president of the United States beyond the kinds of things that you have already -- I mean, is it a major move? Is it going to have a major affect?
Un-fucking believable.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:14 am
by KaiineTN
I almost couldn't stand watching after McCain started complaining about $3 million dollar bad spending, when we're on the verge of a $700 billion bill. It's just... ridiculous. Neither of them really addressed the economic "crisis" we have, and I think that's because they either know we're fucked or don't know the first thing about how to deal with it. Probably both.
I want another Youtube debate, and I want the public to vote on the questions they must answer.
This debate, and I highly doubt any future debate, will make me even consider voting for either of these candidates. What's worse is I don't want to vote for Barr either after he blew off Ron Paul, and I don't want to vote for Baldwin because he's too religious. I have no option, but I don't want to do nothing.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:19 am
by Kramer
i watched about 20 minutes while they were talking about foreign affairs and how to deal with countries who are hostile to us and/or whom we have cut off talks
Obama seemed to be saying that isolation hasn't worked so he would try something different, like, talking to them....
and McCain seemed to just roll his eyes and talk about how remarkably stupid all of those ideas were...
that happened pretty much the whole 20 minutes
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:50 am
by Martrae
KaiineTN wrote:This debate, and I highly doubt any future debate, will make me even consider voting for either of these candidates. What's worse is I don't want to vote for Barr either after he blew off Ron Paul, and I don't want to vote for Baldwin because he's too religious. I have no option, but I don't want to do nothing.
Baldwin is a 9-11 truther too. If Bob Barr hadn't pushed and pushed then I highly doubt Ron Paul would have endorsed him and I think he only did it as a token protest vote.
After reading more about Bob Barr I don't think I can vote for him either...which leaves me with my original plan of writing in Ron Paul.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:00 am
by Iccarra
I missed the debate altogether. (I know, shame on me.) Although, I did get a drunken recap later last night.
I'm really torn on where my vote will be placed or if I will do a write-in instead. I guess I'm running out of time to decide...
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:09 am
by araby
Interesting point Triel. I've been wondering that myself since they picked Palin.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:38 am
by Tossica
Well, at least McCain didn't sound retarded.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:16 pm
by ClakarEQ
I think they both did ok. I also didn't care how mccain never really acknowledged obama. I don't recall at any time other than a brief 'blink' that mccain even looked at him, I felt that was disrespectful. You don't have to like each other but I felt mccain seemed above obama, I caught him chuckling a few times and again, just poor taste, left me with this feeling of mccain being a 'better' person or something.
The other part that bothered me, and I can't say it was wrong really but mccain kept bringing up veterans. While I do feel it is an issue I don't feel it needed to be repeatedly brought up.
Lastly, I didn't care for how mccain would take something obama said, and instantly take it to an extreme. The precondition issue, the face to face meeting, bombing inside of pakistan, there were a couple of others that I noticed as well.
I have this strange feeling that before McCain gets to the end of this road (near the election date) that Palin will drop out for some 'personal reason' and Guliani will step up. I think those two are getting a bit too cozy and it seems strange to me.
As far as that 'rule' statement, I'm sure it wasn't meant to be literal and I don't think either man took it as such, while it was a very poor choice of wording, I didn't take it seriously and I'm assuming most folks just glossed over it. The media, from what I saw, and heard so far (and it's not been much) caught it or even recognized it.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:59 pm
by Kramer
yeah, Palin has been screwing up big time...
it would be a trip for Gulianni (sp?) to step in and for Hillary to step in
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:11 pm
by Diekan
Trielelvan wrote:Well, we are fucked no matter what happens. It's just a matter of how badly at this point.
I still think the Republicans are trying to lose on purpose... this is what scares me.
You know... I thought I was crazy for thinking that too... but I agree it really is starting to *seem* like they're "trying" to lose.
[They] could have put up a better choice than McCain and McCain could have EASILY picked a better running mate than MILF-at-large-Palin... like say... Romnie (sp).
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:24 pm
by Narrock
McCain: 1 Obama: 0
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:11 pm
by brinstar
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:41 pm
by Arlos
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:49 pm
by Nusk
pretty close to a tie and a tie goes to obama in my oppinion
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 pm
by Gypsiyee
Nusk wrote:pretty close to a tie and a tie goes to obama in my oppinion
I agree with this, but not because Obama did anything outstanding because he didn't, but mainly because the petty route McCain went was a put-off for me, and he's been doing this since June.
Honestly, there is a reason McCain wanted foreign policy first - it's his strongest point. It was clear that he was more confident as the night went on but I wouldn't say he did anything phenomenal that really showed how worldly he is in comparison to Obama.
If Friday night's debate was his best (which for all intents and purposes it should've been), I think he's going to get slaughtered in the next two. This was Obama's weakest subject, and for him to hold his own (which he did - I mean he didn't outshine anyone too much or anything but he did hold his own) should be frightening to the McCain camp.
I can't wait for Thursday, though. That should be an interesting debate.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:34 pm
by Lueyen
Well I finally watched it all the way through. I suspect McCain not looking at Obama was a method to help him to keep from losing his temper. If I'm right about this though I have to ask the question if this is how he would approach foreign dignitaries he didn't care for. Of course in disrespectful gestures one must also include Obama's frequent references to McCain as "John" instead of Senator something McCain always did. On the early part concerning the current economic crisis, either McCain was pulling punches in the interest of negotiations in Washington or he's just clueless. McCain came off looking much better on foreign policy (like others have stated not a huge surprise). Obama successfully defended for the most part the charge that his sitting down and talking to leaders of hostile nations was dangerous, however a key part of his argument there in regards to Kissinger was debunked by Kissinger himself:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/26/debate-1-wrap-up/Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: “Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.”
The "I have a bracelet too" I thought backfired due to Obama seeming to stumble in remembering the name of the soldier. That isn't half as bad as this though:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/28/family-told-obama-not-wear-soldier-sons-bracelet-where-media
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:45 pm
by leah
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:41 pm
by Lueyen
The radio show mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAOFTAd9mPUThis is the father explaining his understanding of the mothers stance. So basically the mother states she doesn't want it politicized, asks Obama not to wear it or mention it in a public venue, but it appears she is okay with it due to the fact that McCain mentioned it first. What a good little Obama drone she is. I say that not because of her rationale, but because I can not imagine how someone could first ask that it not be used and then condone it after he couldn't even demonstrate the respect to remember the soldiers name. She must truly be enamored with him, which I'd be fine with if I thought he was actually deserving of it. Many here probably do believe he is, and it is this blind faith in any politician that scares me, although I do see this more with Obama, there is a certain amount of this not so much with McCain, but with Palin as well.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:44 am
by Gypsiyee
I fail to see how it's blind faith to align with a politician's platform, especially when it's been consistent. I don't support Obama because I'm enamored, I support him because of what he represents.
I don't think that the mother is necessarily an "Obama drone" just because she was okay with it - I think it's as simple as not allowing McCain to exploit soldiers for political gain to represent himself as the only one who's there for the troops. I can't speak for her, but I imagine her logic goes along the lines of 'I don't want the American people to see that in a debate and think that all of us feel the same way' - situational circumstance changes feelings all the time.
Your characterizing her as an Obama drone simply says that you loathe Obama (after all, you said you'd be okay with it if you agreed that he deserved the praise) - I think that's readily apparent without you casting judgments on those who've lost someone in this farce of a war, though.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:11 am
by leah
in the article i posted, the transcript of the comment obama made makes it seem like he was about to say he got the bracelet from the soldier and then stopped himself to say he got it from his mother (because obviously the soldier himself didn't give it to him)
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:29 pm
by Lueyen
leah wrote:in the article i posted, the transcript of the comment obama made makes it seem like he was about to say he got the bracelet from the soldier and then stopped himself to say he got it from his mother (because obviously the soldier himself didn't give it to him)
The youtube link I posted shows it at the very beginning. Despite what the transcript may lead you to believe, if you watch the video it's pretty obvious he had to read the name off the bracelet.
Gypsiyee that is in essence my problem with the whole issue. The mother asked him not to reference it in a public venue, but decided she was okay with it after he did so. I can definitely see the rationale and it would not bother me if he could have remembered the soldiers name without looking. While it is true that I'm no fan of Obama, that is not why I don't feel he's deserving of the mothers concession. My mother has a bracelet too, on it is the name of an American soldier who is MIA in Vietnam. Funny thing there, she doesn't have to look at her bracelet to tell you his name, and it wasn't even given to her by the soldiers mother, but that bracelet and that man are something more to her then a mere political tool.
Re: Presidential Debate #1
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:41 am
by Gypsiyee
fair enough, but if we're talking about using it as a political tool, why do you not take more issue with McCain who used it as such first?