namelesstavern.net

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27705755/?gt1=43001

Go figure he's Catholic...

Ugh...and Southern.

Wow, that is retarded. A priest denying a person communion? I can't stand Obama, but that is way wrong.

fuck da church

. . .

"impeach obama"?

he's not even president yet

Narrock wrote:Wow, that is retarded. A priest denying a person communion? I can't stand Obama, but that is way wrong.

I'm genuinely surprised you of all people don't understand this, so I'll attempt to explain. I'm very much aware you don't agree with Catholicism, but you need not agree to see the logic.


1.) Catholics teaching is that communion does not represent Christ, but IS Christ.
2.) Catholics who have a mortal sin on their soul, are not to take communion, for to receive Christ when their soul is in such peril is considered an offense against God. In short taking communion while the soul is in a state separated from God's grace, furthers that schism. The intent here is not punishment, but to prevent further damage to the persons soul.
3.) Murder is a mortal sin.
4.) Condoning, enabling or advocating murder is by extension a mortal sin.
5.) By supporting a politician who advocates murder one is condoning, enabling and advocating murder.
6.) Abortion is murder.
7.) A Catholic who supports a politician who advocates abortion is guilty of a mortal sin, and therefore should not receive communion until an act of contrition is made.
8.) A priest is charged with the spiritual care of his congregation. In this the refusal of communion to someone who the priest is aware has committed a mortal sin without having reconciled it is mandated.

Personally I don't see why non-Catholics would even take issue with this or why anyone who disagrees with the Catholic faith would try to half heartedly follow it.

leah wrote:. . .

"impeach obama"?

he's not even president yet

Not sure where this reference came from, but a person need not be president to be subject to impeachment. Any public official can be impeached. As a US senator Obama is subject to impeachment, although I have yet to see anything regarding action he's taken that would to me constitute a high crime or misdemeanor to make a valid impeachment case.

WOW I can't believe someone actually came to his defense.

I predict 8 years of Lueyen being a douche.

Zanchief wrote:WOW I can't believe someone actually came to his defense.

I actually wasn't surprised at all.

To be fair, that's something of an extreme view, even within the catholic community. Even the pope hasn't officially come out in support of such an idea. So, while some Catholics may find it logical, it is certainly not all of them, and not even all of the most reactionary types.

-Arlos

The only surprising part to me is the care people are giving to religious matters that aren't any of their business or their belief.

I only know about the catholic politics of it because both my parents are exceedingly devout catholics (though they are definitely in the liberal catholic camp), and I hear about it from them. My dad is a max-rank Knight of Columbus (if you know Catholics, you'll know what this is), and is thinking of quitting the organization because it was so vocally in support of the anti-gay-marriage proposition here in CA.

-Arlos

Arlos wrote:To be fair, that's something of an extreme view, even within the catholic community. Even the pope hasn't officially come out in support of such an idea. So, while some Catholics may find it logical, it is certainly not all of them, and not even all of the most reactionary types.

-Arlos

No it's something of the mainstream view, as one of the Vatican cardinal's explains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv3MRyKfEHA

Cardinal Arinze wrote:Get the children for first communion and say to them, somebody votes for the killing of unborn babies, and says, I voted for that, I will vote for that every time and these babies are killed, not one or two, but in millions, and that person says I am a practicing Catholic, should that person receive communion next Sunday? The children for first communion will answer that at the drop of a hat. You don’t need a cardinal to answer that.

I repeat: While some may hold that view, it is *NOT* a sanctioned practice of the Catholic Church at this time. There is no such edict that has been issued, period.

Certainly many in the church DO feel that way, even ranking individuals. Heck, I remember reading a story where the pope agreed with that, off the record.

The fact remains, however: There is no church dogma or doctrine to that effect in place at this time. Any priest or other church official who attempts to enact that is acting on their own hook and not by the official orders of the Church as a whole. Therefore, and until such time as there IS such an edict, it cannot be said to be the mainstream stance of the Church.

I think that the pope knows damn well if he TRIED to enact that as an official policy, it would schism the church, big time. Catholicism is already shrinking almost universally across the world, except some spots in Africa, even in traditionally heavily catholic states. The Church's stance on reproductive rights is clearly far out of the mainstream of opinion of western society, in that it doesn't even condone birth control, and the top leaders know damn well if they tried to get draconic about it, people would leave in droves.

Then again, as Galileo proved, the Catholic church has never been terribly good at recognizing reality, except possibly for a brief period around the the time of 2nd Vatican, that the current Pope has shown every sign of wanting to reverse as much as possible. So, perhaps they really will try that, and if so, they will then be left to loudly wonder why 1/3+ of their membership just quit and formed a new branch of protestantism.

-Arlos

Tell you what Arlos, go through the things I listed 1-8 and tell me if they are true or false according to your understanding of Catholic Dogma. If they are all true then please explain to me how the logical flow and conclusion is wrong.

Lueyen, I actually didn't care about how Catholicism plays into this. I think it's wrong for ANY Christian sect to deny a church member/parishoner holy communion for political reasons.

I'm not talking theory here, I'm talking about actuality.

In THEORY, Catholic Dogma may well support your position.

In REALITY, the Church has never, and likely WILL never officially press such a position as an official edict, as I am sure they know damn well that if they DID, they would lose half their membership. They would also face massive backlash from tons of people outside the faith as well.

If they DID do so, we WOULD have a new protestant branch, probably called something like "Reform Catholicsm", as that would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Notice how there's never any official statements of support from the Vatican or, especially the Pope, whenever some priest or even bishop runs his mouth off about instituting that as policy? There's your proof that this is *NOT* official Catholic policy at this point, and at least SOMEONE the Pope listens to knows exactly what the consequences would be if they try. So no, there will not be any going back to the days where the Vatican controlled the governments of nations through religious policy, like we saw back a few hundred years ago.

-Arlos

lue: i was commenting on mindia's new avatar.

Arlos wrote:In REALITY, the Church has never, and likely WILL never officially press such a position as an official edict, as I am sure they know damn well that if they DID, they would lose half their membership. They would also face massive backlash from tons of people outside the faith as well.

That is what always bothered me about most of organized religion. It's not a fucking popularity contest. Stop treating it as one.

If you believe B will result of A, and you are against A, fucking say it. Not go with C just to save a subscription rate to your bullshit.

I am not fond of organized religion either. Indeed, I was raised catholic and quit it largely BECAUSE of the dogma, and the discouragement from questioning and original thinking. This is also why I ended up with a religion whose one tenet you'll find across all the near infinite varieties is "There is no one true way", and encourages everyone to find their own path.

-Arlos

Organized Religion AKA "THE CHURCH" is the best thing Evil ever came up with. Nothing else in this world divides us as much. Sends us to war as much and all around fucks us as much. Believe in what works for you, but man I can't get behind following everything the CHURCH tells you to just because.

seems to me that you wold just leave the catholic church and realize that it ISN'T actually the only church in the world, but some folks think and would be afraid to leave, and for that i feel sad that the priest is doing that

Did you know that Catholics also believe that IVF and fertility drugs are a ticket to hell too? ( didn't and have made an argument to this point in the past, I was wrong it appears).

IVF violates the rights of the child: it deprives him of his filial relationship with his parental origins and can hinder the maturing of his personality. It objectively deprives conjugal fruitfulness of its unity and integrity, it brings about and manifests a rupture between genetic parenthood, gestational parenthood, and responsibility for upbringing. This threat to the unity and stability of the family is a source of dissension, disorder, and injustice in the whole of social life.

Almost implying you're not as human as the rest of us, you're lacking something if you were created from IVF or fertility drugs, yeah this is a great religion
I think that priest needs some additional education:

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

How is being pro-choice a mortal sin, sorry it ISN'T and this priest is selfish and attempting to politicize something, he should seek some one on one time in the box.

What is funny though, if you even think of sex with someone you're not married to, guess what MORTAL SIN boys, what a fucking joke.

Catholicism better modernize or it will shrink and dwindle a slow death

Mindia whats this impeach obama shit? are you really that big a turd?

ClakarEQ wrote:How is being pro-choice a mortal sin, sorry it ISN'T and this priest is selfish and attempting to politicize something, he should seek some one on one time in the box.

/cut

Catholicism better modernize or it will shrink and dwindle a slow death

You're not really qualified to say what is and isn't a violation of a deity's tenets to live by. In my personal opinion, neither is any human being. If the head of all religions suddenly told me playing video games were a ticket to their version of hell or whatever it may be universally, I'd tell them to suck my dick. I'll find that out for myself like anything else. I don't need a person to tell me what God wants from me, if anything.

Religions aren't magazine subscriptions. Your beliefs of what ultimately happens to you during life and after death shouldn't change to be more popular or socially acceptable. That is the dumbest fucking way to look at the universe.

Harrison wrote:

ClakarEQ wrote:How is being pro-choice a mortal sin, sorry it ISN'T and this priest is selfish and attempting to politicize something, he should seek some one on one time in the box.

/cut

Catholicism better modernize or it will shrink and dwindle a slow death

You're not really qualified to say what is and isn't a violation of a deity's tenets to live by. In my personal opinion, neither is any human being.

Well duh smart guy, when did I say I was qualified. Those quotes are right out of their edicts, what the fuck are YOU talking about?

Source: Donum vitae (Respect for Human Life), Instruction on respect for human life in its origin, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 1987.

As for my modernize statement, you're stupid. EVERY religion evolves, don't be a dumb ass.