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Evolution gets slammed

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:28 pm
by Narrock
Kansas moves to stem role of evolution in teaching By Carey Gillam
1 hour, 39 minutes ago



OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (Reuters) - After months of debate over science and religion, the Kansas Board of Education has tentatively approved new state science standards that weaken the role evolution plays in teaching about the origin of life.


The 10-member board must still take a final vote, expected in either September or October, but a 6-4 vote on Tuesday that approved a draft of the standards essentially cemented a victory for conservative Christian board members who say evolution is largely unproven and can undermine religious teachings about the origins of life on earth.

"We think this is a great development ... for the academic freedom of students," said John West, senior fellow of the Discovery Institute, which supports intelligent design theory.

Intelligent design proposes that some features of the natural world are best explained as products of a considered intent as opposed to a process of natural selection.

The board is sending its drafted standards to a Denver-based education consultant before a final vote, planned for either September or October.

If they win final approval, Kansas will join Minnesota, Ohio and New Mexico, all of which have adopted critical analysis of evolution in the last four years.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints and eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum.

Critics say the moves are part of a continuing national effort by conservative Christians to push their secular views into the public education process.

"This is neo-creationism, trying to avoid the legal morass of trying to teach creationism overtly and slip it in through the backdoor," said Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education.

Kansas itself has been grappling with the issue for years, garnering worldwide attention in 1999 when the state school board voted to de-emphasize evolution in science classes.

That was reversed in 2001 with new members elected to the school board. But conservatives again gained the majority in elections in 2004, leading to the newest attacks on evolution.

The science standards the board is revising act as guidelines for teachers about how and what to teach students.

In May, the board of education sponsored a courtroom-style debate over evolution that saw lawyers for each side cross-examining "witnesses" and taking up issues such as the age of the earth, fossil records and beliefs that humans and are too intricately designed to not have a creator.

The hearings came 80 years after evolution was the subject of the famous "Scopes" trial in Tennessee in which teacher John Thomas Scopes was accused of violating a ban against teaching evolution.


Kewlness! :boots:

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:47 pm
by KILL
awesome

maybe we can resume burning witches soon too

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:03 pm
by Narrock
witches. lol

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:06 pm
by Donnel
Each witch more witcher then the last.

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:11 pm
by brinstar
my neighbor state to the south is full of retards

now i kinda know how canada must feel

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:15 pm
by Captain Insano
those silly christians are at it again! :lol:

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:20 pm
by mofish
Kansas owns one of the dumbest populations in the US. And thats saying something, with the entire South in the running.

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:35 pm
by araby
My problem with this subject is that I am really sick of hearing about what they want taught in schools, when what they're teaching now isn't up to par.

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:05 pm
by Eziekial
That was a fantastic post Ash, I was thinking the exact same thing.

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:20 pm
by Gidan
Who would have thought that the religious concervative board would take science out of science classes.

All this is, is a way for tehm to have a way to push creation on the students.

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:59 am
by Captain Insano
I agree with not teaching evolution and lots of other unchristianlike subjects....

It's not really a big deal if our kids are dumb as shit as long as they know jesus, because EVERYONE knows that GOD will provide everything they need so why even try to learn anything useful!

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:05 am
by mofish
in'sh allah

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:54 am
by Themosticles
Gidan wrote:Who would have thought that the religious concervative board would take science out of science classes.

All this is, is a way for tehm to have a way to push creation on the students.


You are over dramatizing this.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints and eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum.

There is the crux of the decision. Letting students know that there is more than just one school of thought on how we came to be. No where does it say that those must be taught, merely recognized as valid beliefs that not everyone shares. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Not everyone believes in the theory of Evolution(capital E) and so it might do some good for a teacher to say exactly that then allow their pupils to come to their own conclusions.

You and I both know that young students eat up wholly what their teachers tell them. When you read books in class teachers ASK for student opinion first w/o giving theirs. If a teacher tells the class what he/she thinks before allowing students to form their own opinions then a majority of those students will simply believe the teacher's words as thier truth w/o investigating and then they've lost out on something important.

Again, this is NOT about religion.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:22 am
by Zanchief
Themosticles wrote:Again, this is NOT about religion.


Themo, if you truly believe that you are kidding yourself.

You may be able to justify this in a non-religious context, but the reasoning is 100% about religion.

Although I do agree that people shouldn’t be taught that evolution is infallible, but it never was to me. If you want to truly educate people you should tell your students of the flaws as much as the truths of evolution. But this isn’t about truth, it’s about pushing their agenda.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:33 am
by Lyion
Naturedidit wrongly stated as fact is just as silly as goddidit stated as fact.

Themo wrote:it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


Discussion and debate are good, and even though secularity and naturalsim are and should be prevalent in science, high school talks do nothing but promote learning, and are hardly damaging, except to those with an agenda.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:19 am
by Zanchief
lyion wrote:Naturedidit wrongly stated as fact is just as silly as goddidit stated as fact.

Themo wrote:it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


Discussion and debate are good, and even though secularity and naturalsim are and should be prevalent in science, high school talks do nothing but promote learning, and are hardly damaging, except to those with an agenda.


I agree, but this isn't to promote discourse. It's to promote religion as a viable alternative.

The motives could not be clearer, Lyion. Do you deny it?

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:42 am
by Lyion
I'm sure many have a biased religious agendas, just as many have a biased anti religion agenda.

Stating evolution has gaping holes is not promoting religion or proselytizing. Neither are open discussions and an attempt to learn. It's not like anyones trying to change the scientific method, or anything.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:59 am
by Zanchief
lyion wrote:I'm sure many have a biased religious agendas, just as many have a biased anti religion agenda.

Stating evolution has gaping holes is not promoting religion or proselytizing. Neither are open discussions and an attempt to learn. It's not like anyones trying to change the scientific method, or anything.


Question avoided 100%.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:26 pm
by Lyion
What, that some have a biased agenda? I agreed with that, so I didn't see any avoidance.

We have laws for separation of church and state, which is why groups have to jump through heavy hoops to do any type of discourse that has any semblance of Christianity.

Kansas will join Minnesota, Ohio and New Mexico, all of which have adopted critical analysis of evolution in the last four years.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


That is hardly anything huge since it certainly isn't pushing evangelicism in the schools, merely allowing for high schools to discuss people's beliefs in high school science class, be it naturedidit or godidit.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:34 pm
by Zanchief
When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:09 pm
by Lyion
Zanchief wrote:When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.


I think you are confusing what the fundamentalists want and what is actually being implemented, Zan.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:16 pm
by Zanchief
lyion wrote:
Zanchief wrote:When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.


I think you are confusing what the fundamentalists want and what is actually being implemented, Zan.


"eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum" and "various viewpoints " are about as vague as weapons of mass destruction.

Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:24 pm
by Lyion
Possibly, but it won't happen.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:28 pm
by Themosticles
Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.


I don't think it will come to this, as I stated before, but this of course is where we disagree. Which is fine.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:30 pm
by Zanchief
Themosticles wrote:
Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.


I don't think it will come to this, as I stated before, but this of course is where we disagree. Which is fine.


Unfair generalization maybe, but I don't see Kansas doing this to make their curriculum more progressive.