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Is this a stupid build? Right now my build is all fucked up but since I'm close to 60 I'm thinking of how to change it.

Assassination Talents (31 points)


Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.


Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.


Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.


Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.


Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.


Vile Poisons - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 15%.


Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.


Vigor - 1/1 point
Increases your maximum Energy by 10.




Combat Talents (20 points)


Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points
Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.


Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.


Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.


Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.


Dagger Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 5%.




Subtlety Talents (0 points)


None

I don't like particularly like Vigor. How often will you actually fill your energy bar to 110 during a fight? I know I rarely let mine max out save for the beginning of the fight. Will an extra 10 energy really affect your DPS that much, given that you can easily expend 400+ energy against a single mob.

As I recall Vile Poisons has less effect on your DPS than the talent that increases your chance of proccing Instant Poison, assuming of course that you use Instant as your primary DPS poison.

Is it worth spending talent points on both Sinister Strike and Backstab? Do you use both abilities consistently enough to make the expenditure worthwhile?

Yes Vigor sucks but I have a single talent point let over so I guess it's best to just dump it there rather than 1 lvl of imp kidney shot(I hate having non-maxed talents, its an OCD thing)

Interesting about the poison, if thats true I'll change that for sure.

As for the SS and BS, I thought of that but I need prereq amount of talents to get further down the combat tree and I'd rather have imp SS than Imp gouge...

hmmm Now that I think about it. Replace imp SS for Imp Gauge and toss Vigor.

Assassination Talents (30 points)


Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.


Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.


Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.


Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.


Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.


Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


Improved Instant Poison - 5/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 10%.


Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.




Combat Talents (21 points)


Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.


Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points
Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.


Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.


Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.


Dagger Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 5%.




Subtlety Talents (0 points)


None

Hmmm

How about instead of precision and dagger spec I take the best of, Camo, Master of Deception and Rapid Concealment(i'm guessing Master of Deception) and 5 pts in Opportunity?

Kezz speak up damnit.

If you want to use daggers then use 30/8/13 (switch to 31/8/12 if you ever get 5 pieces of NS) or 21/8/22. 30/8/13 will net you the most damage using daggers. Since I know you hate pvp I'd suggest using that build. 21/8/22 is better for pvp but I wouldn't use the builld you suggested.

Precision is worthless at 60 since there is a cap of 5% on extra chances to hit. So every piece of armor you get with a 1% chance to hit will be worthless. Lightning reflexes is also worthless IMO since you shouldn't get hit anyways. Having improved Gouge AND Improved SS allows you to use the Cheapshot->Sinister->gouge->kidneyshot->backstab->backstab stunlock. If anything, I'd put those points into deflection and reposte if you're dead set in using that build. The better weapons you get the more important slice and dice becomes, especially in long fights like in Molten Core. Depending on your preference (ex: I never use instant poisons anymore so I have no points there) you can swap more points into SnD or imp kidney shot. You can check out the build I use in my profile...remember that I do have a few filler points in for pvp shit. For a purely pve build for daggers I'd do this:

Assassination Talents (30 points)


Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.


Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.


Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.


Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.


Improved Slice and Dice - 1/3 point
Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 15%.


Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.


Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


Improved Instant Poison - 4/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 8%.


Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.




Combat Talents (8 points)


Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.


Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.


Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.




Subtlety Talents (13 points)


Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)


Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.


Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

Taxx wrote:If you want to use daggers then use 30/8/13 (switch to 31/8/12 if you ever get 5 pieces of NS)

Why?

I want seal of fate so I guess I'm going 30 Ass atleast.

I didnt even consider slice and dice since I never use that ability normally but I cuold see how in long MC type fights it could be useful.

Assassination Talents (30 points)


Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.


Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.


Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.


Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.


Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.


Improved Instant Poison - 5/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 10%.


Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.




Combat Talents (8 points)


Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.


Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.


Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.




Subtlety Talents (13 points)


Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)


Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.


Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

This one seems interesting.


Oh and why do you use Vigor when you blasted it last time I talked to you about this stuff?

And I don't use ambush normally. I could see it being more useful in PVP but I usually open with Cheap Shot then BS.

5 NS pieces gives you 120 energy (which I use atm) do not spec into Vigor until then. Being able to ambush then backstab with no delay at all is sometimes a 2 shot kill. If not then on 95% of cloth wearers ambush-backstab-thistle tea-backstab-backstab and they're far dead~

Also Zan remember that 50% of your damage comes from normal melee damage...i suggest using SnD more often especially after a free combo point from ruthlessness.

Do you use instant poisons enough to dump 5 entire points into it? Look how much of a minimal gain each point gives you.

Taxx wrote:5 NS pieces gives you 120 energy (which I use atm) do not spec into Vigor until then. Being able to ambush then backstab with no delay at all is sometimes a 2 shot kill. If not then on 95% of cloth wearers ambush-backstab-thistle tea-backstab-backstab and they're far dead~

I C

Taxx wrote:Also Zan remember that 50% of your damage comes from normal melee damage...i suggest using SnD more often especially after a free combo point from ruthlessness.

Yea thats the only time I use it.

Taxx wrote:Do you use instant poisons enough to dump 5 entire points into it? Look how much of a minimal gain each point gives you.

I use em, but not that often. Just seemed like there was no where else to put em.

I'll re-evaluate later today.

remember that a 5 point kidney shot = 2 backstabs if timed right. imp kidney shot makes the cooldown -5 sec.

Replaced instant poison with imp kidney and SnD.

Not sure if I prefer this for my lvl by at 60 it's probably better.

Assassination Talents (30 points)


Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.


Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.


Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.


Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.


Improved Slice and Dice - 2/3 points
Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 30%.


Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.


Improved Kidney Shot - 3/3 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Kidney Shot ability by 5 seconds.


Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.




Combat Talents (8 points)


Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.


Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.


Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.




Subtlety Talents (13 points)


Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.


Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.


Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

Taxx wrote:remember that a 5 point kidney shot = 2 backstabs if timed right. imp kidney shot makes the cooldown -5 sec.

yea I usually kydney and BS twice when I solo.

Thats almost my exact build and I love it. I'm sure you will. Like I said though I don't use instant poisons 95% of the time. You may just want to put 1 point into SnD and 2 into Kidney and 2 into instant poison. I don't know how often you use them.

If mobs are 2 or 3 lvls above me I use to to kill em faster. I usually forget though.

Zanchief wrote:If mobs are 2 or 3 lvls above me I use to to kill em faster. I usually forget though.

Pfft. We're lucky if you can remember crippling poison, let alone instant.

...

If PvP is not a consideration, I'd just do without improved ambush completely.

I use a 15 / 26 / 10 build that pretty much nets me most damage on our raids. Max improve S&D, Dagger and Offhand Spec, Opportunity etc etc.

No Seal Fate, but I don't miss it. Love Blade Flurry. :-)

We did MC yesterday, the next nightslayer - chest head shoulders legs, bloodfang - legs, gutgore, are alllllll defaulted to me next time they drop. Which they haven't in like 3 weeks now? Oh and rags cape.

And perditions dropped last night, I lost the bid

Anyway, while i haven't had the pleasure to try out 31/8/12, i've heard nothing but good things about it. I'm 21/8/22 right now and it's pretty fucking ownage. I'm in the process of making a pvp video atm, and i'll post it on the boards here when i'm done soon enough.

Taxx...is Improved Sap of any value? I'm 54 right now and everyone seems to want me to have it to do instances. It seems pretty good right now though.

for instances it's handy but thats about it...if you do lots of instance runs then yeah it's worth it

I'm currently 21,8,22 but I want to respec to 30, 8 ,13 however I really don't want to lose prep

And I never PVP.

I think for MC / BWL Seal of Fate >> Prep anyway.

21 8 22 is the "OMG I NEED MY COOLDOWNZ" build

Yeah...I need seal of fate back asap. At least then I'll be able to get two 5 point finishers off when fighting most of the trash mobs in MC. Currently I can only get 1 off.

the better the gear you get the better seal fate builds get as well. You seem like you're gearing up so it would be a good change. More crit=more combos

Yeah that's a good point. Lava belts, core hound boots, onyxia cloaks and other FR gear destroy my agility though

But at least it keeps me alive.

dead rogues do 0 dps