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Hurricane aid delay
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:48 am
by Yamori
Was watching some news thing about the hurricain and some senator made a really really good point about why it's taking so long to get food and such to the survivors. He said,
"The national guard is all in Iraq. Thats the problem."
This is the first time in a week I've heard this mentioned at all, but it definitely explains a lot.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:49 am
by Mop
Have you been watching fox news and then changed the channel?
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:04 am
by Lyion
The problem is Americans are sheep and listen rather than check facts themselves.
Stop being a sheep.
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/r ... 020719.asp
So is the war in Iraq causing troop shortfalls for hurricane relief in New Orleans?
In a word, no.
A look at the numbers should dispel that notion. Take the Army for example. There are 1,012,000 soldiers on active duty, in the Reserves, or in the National Guard. Of them, 261,000 are deployed overseas in 120 countries. Iraq accounts for 103,000 soldiers, or 10.2 percent of the Army.
That’s all? Yes, 10.2 percent. That datum is significant in itself, a good one to keep handy the next time someone talks about how our forces are stretched too thin, our troops are at the breaking point, and so forth. If you add in Afghanistan (15,000) and the support troops in Kuwait (10,000) you still only have 12.6 percent.
So where are the rest? 751,000 (74.2 percent) are in the U.S. About half are active duty, and half Guard and Reserve. The Guard is the real issue of course — the Left wants you to believe that the country has been denuded of its citizen soldiers, and that Louisiana has suffered inordinately because Guardsmen and women who would have been available to be mobilized by the state to stop looting and aid in reconstruction are instead risking their lives in Iraq.
Not hardly. According to Lieutenant General H. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, 75 percent of the Army and Air National Guard are available nationwide. In addition, the federal government has agreed since the conflict in Iraq started not to mobilize more than 50 percent of Guard assets in any given state, in order to leave sufficient resources for governors to respond to emergencies.
In Louisiana only about a third of Guard personnel are deployed, and they will be returning in about a week as part of their normal rotation. The Mississippi Guard has 40 percent overseas.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:12 am
by Mop
I hardly think the war in Iraq can be blammed for this...I would much rather blame people that felt like shooting guns off, looting and general hoodlumness (tm) for part of the delay. THe rest is unprepared govt and funding cuts to certain areas.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:19 am
by Lyion
In areas of lawlessness with no percieved repercussions, especially in urban areas, there will always be a segment that takes advantage of the situaion. News people pretending this is so shocking are laughable. We had looting for Rodney King, even.
The Coast Guard, National Guard, and others who were there immediately did the right thing and focused on the correct mission, saving lives.
The problem is too many are politicizing this in silly ways, such as what Yamori posted, which was probably from mainstream news, but which anyone can dispel with 10 seconds of fact checking, but won't because they prefer to jump on the Government bashing bandwagon.
I agree Chertoff and Brown should have their performance evaluated, and especially Brown should be canned. The mayor and governor also dropped the ball. W declared the region a disaster area and ordered FEMA mobilized a WEEK before the hurricane hit. However it's no surprise the people who are responsible for that area are pointing fingers at others, especially the Feds.
As I've said, people are sheep, and especially many liberals who look for any excuse to attack W, whether it's merited or not, and who could care less about the facts.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:28 am
by Mop
<insert arlos rant and rave here followed by a legalize pot comment>
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:37 am
by Lyion
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:38 am
by mofish
Thats ok, Ill take care of it.
Although I agree with you about the National Guard thing, you calling liberals sheep for attacking W, as you sit on the polar opposite, revising, apologizing, subtly steering any blame or any perceived criticism away from this administration, in any and every thread, transparently, I might add, at every opportunity, is laughable.
Youre a GOP Partisan neo-conservative. Its what you guys do.
Brown and Chertoff deserve blame? Who appointed these two jack-off incompetent yes-men to their positions? A man who loves yes men, and doesnt like disagreement, George W Bush.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:45 am
by Langston
What the hell is your fixation with the term "neo-conservative"?
What do YOU think it means and why do you use it like it's an insult to be one?
I'm just curious... because you seem to be totally caught up on it.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:47 am
by Mop
I am no where near Far right wing, and I don't like bush - but blaming him directly because people are shooting at helicoptors and causing a delay with the aid soley on him is stupid imo.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:48 am
by Phlegm
Pointing fingers is an American pastime. Whenever something goes wrong, start pointing maybe somebody will believe it.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:52 am
by Mop
Btw I gotta say;
THe other night I saw Jessee Jackson Jr and the gov of Michigan takign this opp to place blame on Bush and his cabinet for the hurricane dmg -
How about Mr Jackson - instead of accusing goverment being slow - how about addressing the young *MAJORITY* black causing alot of the problem... how about Mrs Gov of Michigan you fucking address how badly your state fails its people - growing unemployment - growing violence - growing drug problem .. I used to consider myself a liberal but more and more I find myself disgusted when they use a disaster like this to self promote themselves.. but never once address real problems (again see looting, shooting, crime, ect with in NO) or problems iwth in their own backyards.
Fuck you and your fucking political agenda
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:26 pm
by Minrott
Mop see's the light!
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:35 pm
by Malluas
the people in the national guard that do the cleanup and rebuilding and such are still here in the US..
so another eronous statement by liberals to bash bush. Too bad he isn't running again he would win again.
blame the retards in NO that are shooting at them. Now just think all you liberals that think this is a facist country.. why aren't we killin all those attackin the national guard. or shottin people like Kayne West saying Bush hates blacks.. when thats so far from the truth its funny to listen to
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:36 pm
by Malluas
and yam.. its been said so many fuckin times its funny now. Its said by people that hate the military in amy form and are so ignorant about the different units in both national guard and the military they shoudln't even be commenting on it
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:30 pm
by Martrae
States standing by to send troops didn’t get call until days later
Sunday, September 4, 2005
By SHARON THEIMER Associated Press writer
WASHINGTON — Another 10,000 National Guard troops are being sent to the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, raising their number to about 40,000, but questions linger about the speed with which troops were deployed.
Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn’t get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state’s National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn’t come from Washington until late Thursday.
President Bush had the legal authority to order the National Guard to the disaster area himself, as he did after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But the troops four years ago were deployed for national security protection, and presidents of both parties traditionally defer to governors to deploy their own National Guardsmen and request help from other states when it comes to natural disasters.
In addition to Guard help, the federal government could have activated, but did not, a major air support plan under a pre-existing contract with airlines. The program, called Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, lets the government quickly put private cargo and passenger planes into service.
The CRAF provision has been activated twice, once for the Persian Gulf War and again for the Iraq war.
California troops just began arriving in Louisiana on Friday, three days after floodwaters devastated New Orleans and chaos broke out.
In fact, when New Orleans’ levees gave way to deadly flooding on Tuesday, Louisiana’s National Guard had received help from troops in only three other states: Ohio, which had nine people in Louisiana then; Oklahoma, 89; and Texas, 625, figures provided by the National Guard show.
Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn’t go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.
“We could have had people on the road Tuesday,” Cutler said. “We have to wait and respond to their need.”
The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:11 pm
by Arlos
The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.
I'm not defending the fuckup by the Louisiana governor waiting til Wednesday to ask for help, but why the FUCK does it take 3 days to get 242 people moving? Hell, if they had "anticipated a call", and were just waiting for the call, why weren't those people on instant-ready status, and moving in less than 3 HOURS from the call, much less 3 DAYS?
Also:
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state’s National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn’t come from Washington until late Thursday.
OK, so Louisiana did what it should have here, what the hell happened with the feds to cause a 3 day delay for paperwork to get processed? Why was red tape not bypassed due to emergeny situation and things get done immediately? Damn right, Congress should be investigating this.
-Arlos
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:27 am
by Gidan
Martrae wrote:States standing by to send troops didn’t get call until days later
Sunday, September 4, 2005
By SHARON THEIMER Associated Press writer
WASHINGTON — Another 10,000 National Guard troops are being sent to the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, raising their number to about 40,000, but questions linger about the speed with which troops were deployed.
Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn’t get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state’s National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn’t come from Washington until late Thursday.
President Bush had the legal authority to order the National Guard to the disaster area himself, as he did after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But the troops four years ago were deployed for national security protection, and presidents of both parties traditionally defer to governors to deploy their own National Guardsmen and request help from other states when it comes to natural disasters.
In addition to Guard help, the federal government could have activated, but did not, a major air support plan under a pre-existing contract with airlines. The program, called Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, lets the government quickly put private cargo and passenger planes into service.
The CRAF provision has been activated twice, once for the Persian Gulf War and again for the Iraq war.
California troops just began arriving in Louisiana on Friday, three days after floodwaters devastated New Orleans and chaos broke out.
In fact, when New Orleans’ levees gave way to deadly flooding on Tuesday, Louisiana’s National Guard had received help from troops in only three other states: Ohio, which had nine people in Louisiana then; Oklahoma, 89; and Texas, 625, figures provided by the National Guard show.
Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn’t go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.
“We could have had people on the road Tuesday,” Cutler said. “We have to wait and respond to their need.”
The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.
The other way to look at this is
President Bush had the legal authority to order the National Guard to the disaster area himself
As soon as he saw the Louisiana Gov slipping, he should have stepped in and made the call. Bush was in a position to step in where the Louisiana Gov screwed up; he made the decision not to. This disaster wasn't exactly a surprise; people knew that they were going to get their asses kicked by this storm.
The Louisiana Gov was way under prepared for this, that is clear and much of the fault lies there, but Bush has many advisors and should have seen that they were not prepared for this. You can’t tell me that if he asked, "What do the places that will probably see the most destruction have in the way of guard to ready to go when this thing hits", he wont get a correct answer. This disaster has been predicted, it wasn't a shock when it happened and what they had ready to go was far from enough to handle what happened.
No one person should be taking the blame for the response, but at the same time, blame needs to fall somewhere and Bush should take some of it just as others should.
On a side not, I also agree that the war has nothing at all to do with the response and the people yelling and screaming about how if the troops were here it would have made all the difference are being ridicules.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:06 am
by Minrott
No one person should be taking the blame for the response, but at the same time, blame needs to fall somewhere and Bush should take some of it just as others should.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:22 am
by Lyion
Gidan, Presidents do not 'take' over states in times of natural disaster. If he had, it would've been 100 times worse in the news for him. They offered to take over N.O. on Wed when Blancos delays were costing lives and the Governor said no, and still had yet to declare it a disaster area. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD. Just as he can send the military into any part of the country at any time, it is NOT something that should be done.
The paperwork for Guardsman is processed by the MILITARY. Not by the executive branch. The delays were solely from Louisiana GETTING the paperwork out. It has no bearing on W, which is obvious. As I said he did what he was supposed to and ordered FEMA mobilized a WEEK ahead of time. He declared it a disaster area before the Hurricane arrived.
If you're looking for the main bad guy in this, it'd be nice if the rabid left attack dogs would look at the actual culprit for a change. The hurricane. If you're looking for a person who really, really fucked up then Blanco is the one. But I guess according to many left wing nuts, Karl Rove ordered the Hurricane in to give more contracts to Halliburton.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:26 am
by labbats
If any of you have been to New Orleans, say so. Only those people can attest to what a bunch of lowlife worthless blacks live down there. I'd bet all of my money that over half of those that stayed in New Orleans for the storm did so to loot shit later. Those people are worthless and shouldn't be treated like victims.
Yet you see people crying for their aid. Those same people you're dropping all your resources to help would gladly rape your daughter and slit your throat for your watch.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:33 am
by brinstar
most white guys would do that
i mean this is a pretty sweet watch
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:03 pm
by mofish
labbats wrote:If any of you have been to New Orleans, say so. Only those people can attest to what a bunch of lowlife worthless blacks live down there. I'd bet all of my money that over half of those that stayed in New Orleans for the storm did so to loot shit later. Those people are worthless and shouldn't be treated like victims.
Yet you see people crying for their aid. Those same people you're dropping all your resources to help would gladly rape your daughter and slit your throat for your watch.
Its really amazing how many posters on this board are illuminating themselves as the worthless pieces of shit they are in this tragedy.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:30 pm
by labbats
Been to New Orleans Mofish?
Who is lighting everything on fire after they loot it?
Who is raping and killing anyone they want?
Do you see everyone in Fargo, North Dakota acting the same way in similar circumstances?
Some people aren't worth saving, if you think everyone is then you're fooling yourself.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:46 pm
by Lueyen
There are people worth saving, if you think everyone there is a looting pyro rapist you are fooling yourself. Unfortunatly you can't gleam someones past actions by looking at them or by questioning them, so your forced to help everyone good and bad. I for one would rather see the scum get aid then to see the innocent good people suffer without it.
Edit: And yes, I have been to New Orleans.
