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by **mofish** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:22 pm

Opinions from some of you 30th+ players on Berserkers vs Guardians? Im currently betraying a Wood Elf Warrior to Freeport, will have to make a subclass decision soon. I was 100% set on Berserker initially, Ill probably still go that way, but the Guardian is pretty appealing also. Any firsthand experience with them in groups from you people that are starting to hit the higher levels?

by **Lyion** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:19 am

Go Guardian, unless you have a set group.

by **mofish** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:58 pm

Sort of have a set group. Will be grouping a lot with 2 assassins and a defiler. Berserker is more my style, but all the group defense abilities of the Guardian are intriguing. That 50th level ability that allows the Guardian to absorb all damage anyone in the party takes sounds incredible. AOE groups anyone?

by **Donnel** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:15 pm

Every group I've been in was an AoE group.

Oh and I'm level 21.

by **mofish** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:26 pm

Well, Ive grouped with a couple of good chanters, deep down into Fallen Gate, and they were incredible. Group ran very similar to old school EQ. Big, hard pull, then mez and pick them off. And Breeze is incredible, really noticeable.

The Guardian's damage is ass, thats my main concern

by **Donnel** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:32 am

Go zerker.

They are more fun, in my opinion. With guardians it's... Tank...tank some more... ooo, new way to tank, etc.

With zerker you get to make some choices and trade offs based on different situations.

Do I take that 20% HP hit to pump out a quick 30 seconds worth of massive DPS? Do I hold back on the massive dps to preserve my health and activate my berserk modes as I get hit?

Choices like that are what makes the zerker fun to play. (based on my friends experience)

by **Lyion** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:22 am

Zerkers are completely fucking worthless. They tank like ass 30+. They can't do good DPS compared to a Sorcerer or Rogue, and they can't bloodrage with a Guardian in group or they'll take aggro.

Do not go Zerk unless you have a set group

Feel free to ask any high level guild what they think of Berserkers.

Guardians are tanks. Zerks are hybrids. They can't tank well, and they can't do the massive damage true DPS classes do.

Do yourself a favor and go Guardian.

by **Donnel** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:30 am

What if he doesn't want to tank?

by **Lyion** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:34 am

Then he should play a scout class or mage class to DPS, or a different type of class.

Berserkers cannot tank, and cannot DPS due to aggro from Bloodrage.

High level set groups on my server won't invite Berserkers to them.

by **mofish** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:57 am

Yes I want to tank

Pulling, tanking, my two favorite things to do really.

Is it really that bad for the Berserker? I mean, if one equips a shield, their mitigation is right there with the guardian, is that right? I understand they steal agro from Guardians if in the same group and berserk, that could be a problem.

I dunno, 2 levels to decide. Finished Betrayal last night. One of the funnest, and funniest, quests Ive ever completed. They sure did evil me up before letting me into Freeport haha. Quest dialog was just hilarious.

by **Tanatus** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:04 pm

Relax ... Zerks are OK at leat till low 40s (its where my group atm). Zerks are THE best agro machine - bloodlust = instant agro. Zerks use to have once upon time highest susteined DPS in game but not anymore but we never know if one day they got unnerfed (remember necros? nerf 1999, nerf to dust 2000, a little more nerf 2001.... then PoP and big massive beefing of class). Heck in low 40s even monks can tank providing that they have Shaman as a healer - clerics dont cut off as healers of brawlers
Honestly IMO Tanking abilities (aka mitingate/avoid incoming damage) goes like that Guardian-Zerker-Monk-Brusier-SK-Paladin-Dridge-Troubadour. But then deal comes to Taunting abities I'd rank em different Zerk-SK-Guardian-Pal

by **Lyion** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:06 pm

Guardians can tank high end instances with a single healer. Berserkers cannot easily, without crowd control or a second healer.

If you want to be a tank, then go guardian.

by **kiral** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:53 am

Yes I want to tank Pulling, tanking, my two favorite things to do really

Tank pulling is the lamest thing ever. I have been pulling in every single grp of mine since lvl 12 heh, as a bard.. owns tank pulling ;/

And zerks tank just fine from what i've seen, been doing CT with only one healer and a zerk as a tank.. *shrug* no enchanter (they so useless)

by **mofish** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:02 am

Huh? Tell me how my pulling is lame please. Range is just fine with a bow, or closer with Anger, and Im the first one on the hate list = easier to keep agro. I dont have to worry about pulling a mob off of anyone. It is on me 100% of the time period. I also enjoy learning the area we are camping or crawling, where mobs spawn, and how strong they are. So tell me how bard pulling owns tank pulling please?

Enchanters useless? What are you pulling, master bard puller, greens and blues?

by **kiral** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:05 am

i have awesome gear >< most the time i own their hp / ac.. but that isnt the point, you cant chain pull for worth a crap high end, and aggro? hah, that isnt a problem.. I can lose aggro within 2 secs to someone with their head, And yeah.. enchanters are badly useless. My power songs > breeze, I always hated enchanters as is ;\

Ps, Cazic thule != Greens, More like all yellows, most oranges, some red.
Pps, I been pulling for 4 years heh, you wont see all the bards pull... some are scared =O

by **Donnel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:09 am

I don't think tank pulling is lame personally, however if you let a scout pull for you in a group that does HO's nonstop, it's actually more beneficial. Example:

Scout pulls mob or group of mobs using ensnare or some other move that doesn't put him into Autoattack. While running back, scout triggers his HO starter (since the encounter is locked from the snare). On INC, the tank pops a group taunt (horn), the priest uses something with a moon (shamans are great for this, it's their wards, so now you have all mobs on the tank, with a ward keeping him from getting hit), and the mage Finishes the starter chain with one of his "fire" spells (a dot usually).

Boom, mobs just got into camp and you already have the wheel up for Ancient Demise (massive damage) or Strength in Unity (group +10 to stats buff)

Follow up with whatever HO your group can do from there. (either another of the same or pull out a Trinity Divide or go for Nature's Growth or Archaic Shackles if you want healing or debuff)

by **kiral** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:09 am

tip, it's better if fighter Starts then Scout trigger it~

by **mofish** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:10 am

Sounds good Donnel. Hmm, I REALLY like pulling. I hope I dont get squeezed out of the job =(.

Dont make me start over as a scout EQ2!

by **Donnel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:32 am

kiral wrote:tip, it's better if fighter Starts then Scout trigger it~

What the heck are you talking about?

If a fighter starts the HO, then the only option a scout has is to lead into Luck's Bite/Swindler's Luck(might be wrong name, but it's group version of the solo scout buff)/Rare DD that I can't recall name of.

If the scout starts the chain, then you have way more options, including the scenario I presented.

by **Donnel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:37 am

mofish wrote:Sounds good Donnel. Hmm, I REALLY like pulling. I hope I dont get squeezed out of the job =(.

Dont make me start over as a scout EQ2!

Fighter pulling works too, however it's a more natural progression if the scout pulls/starts HO, then the fighter taunts right off

Ancient Demise = Scout > Fighter (Horn) > Priest (Moon) > Mage (Fire)

Then once the wheel is open it's Ordered: Fighter (Boot) > Scout (Cloak) > Mage (Lightning) > Priest (Hammer) and the biggest hit I've seen is about 250 vs. level 17 mobs (oh and it's AOE, hits all in the encounter for that 250).

We've chained 2 in a row vs. Caltoris Knights ina group of 6, by the time we got to the last one he was down to about 30% health before we'd taken a swing at him.

by **kiral** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:27 am

ragind sword and swindlers gift (is a major plus for orange mobs) owns, Plus I prefer shield of the ancient.. 700 ac buff on all, Damage HO's arent all that useful when you have good Melee DPS.. they pretty much do more with skills

by **Donnel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:36 pm

Yes, but you rarely get raging swords (that's why it's the rare) and swindler's gift, while nice does not equal the extra damage you could get from say an Ancient Demise or Soldier's Gambit. Even a Trinity Divide with it's lowered damage (because it's AoE) would be more damage then the +10 to slashing/piercing you get from swindler's gift.

Raging Sword IS very ncie, but it shows up so rarely. I duo with a berserker. We get raging sword prolly once every other night, and we do HO's back to back every mob.

by **kaharthemad** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:46 pm

Biggest problem is with pickup groups that have no earthly clue what a HO even looks like.

I have seen the amount of DPS tank because one person in the group is not part of the normal core.

by **Donnel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:06 pm

Well, yes. That's why I don't do pickups. Ever.

by **kaharthemad** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:19 pm

had problems with the people not having a fucking clue post 20th level?

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