Ugh... If anyone's considering rerolling rogue...

[Captain Insano]

Here's another good reason....


http://homepage.mac.com/jm_graham/.Pict ... e_bank.wmv


Seriously that is just insane damage. I hope my druid kitty can do even half that.

[Tacks]

I did this 2 weeks ago.

[Ginzburgh]

Hey and look, he's using sinister strike / eviscerate combo

[Tacks]

Yeah that takes talent...


Try killing the bankers when there are 30 paladins standing there.

[Tikker]

are most paladins no talent fucks like most hunters?

[Tacks]

infinitely more so.

After I killed the third banker I got hit by 203909384 Hammer's of Justice at the same time.

[Biph_Dawgy]

hehe i cant wait to try, when i get home from work about 6:30 cst ill looking to respecing my rog, he needs some more dps and i think the talents will help since i only have 3 in assassination, 3 in combat, and 21ish in subtelty...

[Tacks]

subtlety comes last

[Ginzburgh]

Yeah it came last for me too.

Taxx, I'll have 15ish points to put into sub, I'm thinking:

Master of Deception 5
Opportunity 5
Initiative 5

How is ghostly strike? Is it worth it? It looks like it costs a shat load of energy.

Is Elusiveness worth going over Opportunity?

Initiative looks like a must considering I can get 3 combo points off on one cheap shot. That coupled with 1 or 2 sinister strikes = a definite full combo points after the cheap shot stun wears off. And we all know that rogues like having full combo points ~

[Tacks]

Yeah it came last for me too.

Taxx, I'll have 15ish points to put into sub, I'm thinking:

Master of Deception 5
Opportunity 5
Initiative 5

How is ghostly strike? Is it worth it? It looks like it costs a shat load of energy.

Is Elusiveness worth going over Opportunity?

Initiative looks like a must considering I can get 3 combo points off on one cheap shot. That coupled with 1 or 2 sinister strikes = a definite full combo points after the cheap shot stun wears off. And we all know that rogues like having full combo points ~

MoD is still debateable on how useful it is. It will help levelling up but at level 60 I don't see the point in wasting 5 points in it. I'd rather have the increased speed for pvp. Since any hardcore pvpers are going to have catseye elixers anyways. I took elusiveness but when I respec I'm going to spec out of it. Opportunity rocks if you're a dagger rogue, which I am. Initiative is a no-brainer, I get 3 combo points more like 90% than what it says. Ghostly strike is a tough call but I like it when the situation gets hairy. I can hit evasion and ghostly strike and be in god mode for 7 seconds. 65% evades is nothing to laugh at. This saved our ass last night in BRS, I had to offtank one mob and ended up getting hit 1 time.

If you're going way down the subtlety tree, cheapshot + hemorrhage + gouge and evis is a shitload of damage without taking any damage at all. Hemorrhage is like having a +7 dmg mod to your weapon for only 35 energy and a combo point...I like it and it will be hard to give up when I respec.

[Ginzburgh]

I don't know, I like my assasination abilities so I don't think I'll be getting too far down the sub tree, like I said, probably only 15 points.

So, if you had 15 points to spend in sub, what would you spend it in?

[Tacks]

I'd do 16 points...

If you don't pvp:
camo -5
opportunity-5
intiative -5
ghost strike -1


If you pvp (and a dagger rogue)

camo -5
opportunity -5
intiative -4
imp ambush -2

If you're going to do high end pulling or help with pulling, Imp Sap is great but then you'd have to commit yourself to that tree.

[Ginzburgh]

Damn I have 15 points tops I'm about to be level 45 and I need to drop one more point to close out Vile Poisons in the assasination tree.

[Tacks]

ugh don't do vile poisons...

instant poison all the way probably over half of my non-crit damage is from instant poisons and weapon procs

actually, show me what you're planning on doing now

[Skrum]

kezz is there any reason to ever use anything besides crippling/instant?

[Tacks]

mindnumbing dueling against casters...or boss mobs that love to cast

And i'd only ever use vile poisons vs other rogues...even then i'd probably still use instant because at 60 you'll be able to see them in stealth anyways.

Once we get an enchanter with icy enchant, that will make crippling poisons obsolete as well. Instant poison 4tehwin. My Instant poison rank 6 has 115 charges and with 5 talent points I run out of charges in 15-20 minutes of fighting. Even faster if it's constant fighting...that's a ton of damage.

[Stabfase]

dont think so, Deadly poison maybe in boss fights, but I think our DoTs will get pushed off a target in favor of things like Sunder Armor and curses.

[Skrum]

heres a question on mind numbing: does it work on say, doan? because doan, arugal, the lich in downs, and every other boss caster we have fought is immune to curse of tongues and spelllock from my felhunter, making both almost worthless.

[Tacks]

To be honest, I never bother trying it. I just feel I can do more dps and end the fight sooner...and stop casting with stuns anyways.

The new poisons they put into the game wicked poison or whatever...I'd only ever think about using them dueling vs paladins. Most of the poisons are very situational and I only ever keep instant and crippling on me. My last backpack I hold like 5 stacks of instant, 3 of crippling and like 50 flash powders.

[Stabfase]

Wound Poison? waste of a poison imo, and pallys can clear it with their oh so wonderful sheild of cancer

[Tacks]

yeah you're right...shows you how often I use it.

[Ginzburgh]

Vile poison goes along with instant poison. It makes it hit for more damage. The only posion I ever use is instant poison.

Here are my abilitys:

Assasination tree:

Mailce 5/5
Improved Eviscerate 3/3
Lethality 5/5
Relentless Strikes 1/1
Improved Instant Poison 5/5
Vile Poisons 5/5
Cold Blood 1/1
Seal Fate 5/5
Vigor 1/1

Combat:

Improved Sinister Strike 2/2

Subliety:

Guess I'll have 17 points left in sub. Either that or I am missing something because I am not looking at my tree. Thought I only had 15 points left but my numbers are not adding up.

In any case, you get the general idea of what I have.

[Tacks]

You have to use 3 points in ruthlessness to get relentless.

Here's what I'd do to improve on it...I feel Vigor is worthless...and to spend 5 points in vile poisons for a 20 damage increase isn't worth it to me. Think about how many times you will actually have 110 energy...once. At the beginning of a fight. Since you're going to put points into ambush on the subtlety tree and you say you love cheapshot, take 2 points in Murder.

Assassination: 30

Imp evis - 3
malice - 5
ruthless - 3
murder - 2
relentless - 1
lethality - 5
instant poison - 5
cold blood - 1
seal fate - 5

Combat: 2

Imp sin strike - 2

Subtlety: 19

Camo - 5 (or put 3 into camo and 2 into MoD)
Opportunity - 5
Initiative - 5
Ghostly Strike - 1
Imp Ambush - 3

that build is going to pump out a lot of damage and a lot of combo points.

That build is probably just as good as the 30/8/13 build just because you're getting a lot more combo points. 30/8/13 relies a lot on backstab crits...and since I have the perfect backstab dagger I think i'm going to respec to that. The build I suggest according to what you want should give a nice even flow of damage and create a lot of combo points.

[Stabfase]

heres what im going to do, i think, unless you find a flaw in it oh mighty kezz



Assassination Talents (23 points)

Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

Relentless Strikes - 1/1 points
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.

Improved Instant Poison - 5/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 10%.

Cold Blood - 1/1 points
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.



Combat Talents (2 points)

Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.



Subtlety Talents (26 points)

Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.

Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

Initiative - 5/5 points
Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

Ghostly Strike - 1/1 points
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

Preparation - 1/1 points
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

Improved Cheap Shot - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 20.

Hemorrhage - 1/1 points
An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hermorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

[Tacks]

That's the Yojack build=P