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by **Weazilla** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:24 pm

what aspects of the game do you guys think aren't very well balanced out? Most horde that I talk to say that pallys are the wrongest and the alliance say shaman are overpowered. Your thoughts?

by **Stabfase** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:15 pm

nothing is overpowered the people you hear that bitch are the ones crying about 1v1 pvp, this is a group game.

by **Tikker** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:35 pm

Pally have been nerfed back down to the mortal ranges

shaman are....borderline over powered

the only thing that's really unbalanced is the faction populations

on most servers alliance outnumbers horde 2:1

on those it's not 2:1 it's 3:1

by **WoWShaman** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:38 am

Shaman are not overpowered or borderline overpowered.
We do everything decently. We have no cc. Have alright healing, alright tanking alright nukes.
We do not have a large enough mana pool to sustain combat with shocks etc for very long. We do not have a large enough mana pool to heal through a lot of boss encounters effectively. We have half the ac of plate characters / druids in bear form.

If we want, We could become effective healers via restoration tree. or become semi decent tanks via enchancement. Or still be semi crappy nukers through elemental. Yes there are a few things mixed together that bring the over all power up. But you still need effective ways of playing your class to be able to win in pvp / pve.

Shamans are balanced. We are perhaps more balanced then when the game started as are Paladins now with the dps fic that happened to them. I think that every class right now is working as intended with warriors being the only class in need of a bit more pvp skills.

Peace

by **Langston** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:42 am

The combination of Frost Shock against melee, Earth Shock against casters, Earth Bind against all, healing capabilities, average melee damage....

The shaman is, as Tikker said, bordering on overpowered. You can deny it, but we all know it.

by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:43 am

I'm surprised we haven't been nerfed to shit yet.

by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:46 am

It's a group based game. The question is does one class unbalance a group in PVP?

I think the answer to that is no.

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:25 pm

The only thing I personally feel is overpowered in the game are paladin shields. Up their DPS, that's fine with me, but the blatent homosexuality that are invulnerability shields need to go or get toned down.

by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:35 pm

Or have some form of countering them.

by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:35 pm

The shields i don't mind

the ability to cast heals while shielded is the gay part (imo)

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:38 pm

There is nothing gayer then seeing ONE paladin getting beat on by 10 level 60's and taking zero damage. That just does not add up.

by **Jazendar** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:38 pm

You can still kick, gouge, and stun palis while they're invuln, no?

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:39 pm

try again, you could drop a nuclear bomb on them and they'd heal right through it.

by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:53 pm

Taxx wrote:There is nothing gayer then seeing ONE paladin getting beat on by 10 level 60's and taking zero damage. That just does not add up.

Two Paladins do not help a group that much, so they are not overpowered.
PVP ends up being about DPS and tactics. Paladins are fine, and do not greatly change PVP encounters.

by **Jazendar** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:01 pm

Weird. Taxx, more rogue advice needed.

I have the following

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4586
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4139
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=19490

The sword omen has a +3dmg enchant.
The Shatterer and the Thrash blade both have demonslaying enchants.

Right now my build is basically Subtlety, i switched recently. I'm going to switch back though most likely. I used to be dagger combat build but i found out that it's a waste if the dagger doesn't crit. So i've got subtlety, imp sap, prep, initiative 5, etc etc. And for combat i have imp sin strike 2, imp gouge 3. Ass i have malice 5 and imp evis 3.

I need to know whether or not i should use my Sword of omen in off hand, thrash blade in main hand. Or whether i should use Thrash in secondary and shatterer in main hand. I heard thrash in main hand is Awsome. But disarm shatterer is awsome for mobs with weapons, and for 2handed offensive warriors in pvp.

Right now i've got 230ish agility at level 45, going to be 46 soon.

I'm going to respec most likely and go combat tree. I'm not sure yet though, i mean, rogues have so many good abilities, and not enough talent points to get all of them. Assass tree is nice for quick combat points, and cold blood / preperation combo is nice. But then again Combat has a lot of nice abilities.

i'm a skilled rogue, i've killed quite a few people that are much higher level then me. Killed a 60 warlock the other day, along with a 57 rog and 55 warrior in /duels and such. So using the skills i'm given isn't the problem. Just where to put my points and what weapons i should use.

by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:15 pm

I wish hunters had as many viable builds as rogues!

that being said, I've started a rogue twinkie again

by **Stabfase** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:21 pm

Thrash blade is useless in offhand, you should start the chain of quests and get the lifeforce dirk from ST, mainhand he TB and offhand the dirk.

And to your argument about Ass/Sub vs Combat. It basically comes down to either relying on timed abilities and thus making yourself a "10 minute warrior" which ive seen most of cb/prep rogues do. Or having more passive abilites that give you a little more longevity in combat.

IMO cb/prep is the build to use sword/dagger wise until you get a deathstriker, once you obtain a Deathstriker, you should go for an ass/combat build and get Seal Fate and Dagger spec, bringing your chance to crit with backstab to 55% which takes full advantage of Seal Fate.

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:34 pm

I'd mainhand Thrash Blade, offhand Sword of Omen. Nobody can beat a correctly set up subtlety/assassin rogue if they know what they're doing. I eat combat rogues for breakfast lunch and dinner.

by **Tae-Bo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:38 pm

i'd like to see drop rates in upper-level 5 man instances either nerfed for raid groups or buffed for 5 man groups

i'd like to see boss mobs in these instances drop armor patterns that you can turn in for armor like the dragon/giant faction armor in velious in eq, this would make the problem go away of doing the instance 5 man and then giving the druid legs to your enchanter because there's no druid in your group.

i'd like to see tailorers be able to repair cloth, leathworkers to repair leather and some mail, bsmiths repair plate and some weapons (devise a way for other professions to repair some weapons, they all shouldn't go to bsmith ~_~)

whoever is doing the repairing can buy reagents from vendors in advance to do repairs with, so the repairing will still be a money sink, it just won't be an inconvience causing you to have to leave a raid.

add weather

and i want ways to grief newbies like mod rods and ulthork hide tunics =/

by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:41 pm

Tikker wrote:I wish hunters had as many viable builds as rogues!

that being said, I've started a rogue twinkie again

If every class was as fun as the rogue one, the game would be immortal. It's ironic that most people who have no issues with WOW play rogues.

by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:57 pm

Well, Rogues, Shamans, and Paladins all love their class and typically have very few issues with the game.

by **Zanchief** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:59 pm

Fuck rogues.

by **Agrajag** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:13 pm

I remember the clerics in EQ had an invulnerablity shield. What balanced it out was the fact that the only thing the cleric could do while that shield was on was run away.

What I would do would be to make the Paladin invulnerable to physical danger, but while the shield is active he cannot cast or attack. This is just like the shield spell in EQ. If he has to use a last resort spell he better be using it to run away.

Shaman, in my opinion, are not overpowered in the least. Not even close to borderline. People that complain about shaman being too strong are the ones that get beat by them in PvP and use the "shaman are too strong, thats why I couldn't win" line to sleep at night.

I have beat shaman and been beaten (badly) by them, too.

The only thing I would change seriously is the Warlock free horse quest. I know warlocks are weak in just about every area, but giving them a free horse to make up for it? I had to farm and save for my ride. Could have been leveling or upgrading my gear. While I was doing that some warlock says to some guy, "Hey! Gimmee a horse!" And it is done.

I say you make the quest either much harder or you have to pay 90-900 gold to get it. I also would really like to see all the warlocks who have their horses get them taken away until they do the new quest. Just desserts, baby! And for all those who would say I am bitter or jealous, let me save you some time and tell you that you're correct.

NERF THE WARLOCK HORSE!!!

That is all...

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:14 pm

Again I wish to state that I played a Rogue through the entire beta, even when they sucked.

Saying theres no issues with rogues is far from the truth. Stealth can be tweaked (ask if you want to know my opinion on it). Vanish is broken, Cheapshot is broken, Seal Fate is broken, Hemmorhage doesn't work as advertised. A key piece of SC armor has druid stats on it.

by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:15 pm

Paladins get a free horse also Agrajag...prepare to get even more mad.

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