The Passion

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:57 pm

To continue this most excellent thread...

Cat wants proof of the existence of God... It's Jesus. There's plenty of proof that He existed. God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Anyway, I cannot think of any proof nowadays that God exists and is among us. It's all faith-based.

Here's my take on it... I believe that it's better to live your life like there is a God, than to live your life like there isn't a God. Because when and (if) there truly is a "judgment day" I wouldn't want to be standing in the line of folks who didn't believe in God, and who did not live their life the way God intended (in the Bible).

I also believe that since we were born, everything we do, say, feel, and think is recorded... recorded by God. And come judgment day, it will be played back in front of you and God. That's how I live my life... like somebody is watching and recording my every move, action, words spoken, thoughts I have, etc. Yes, I screw up. However, I try not to make the same mistake twice.

On a side note... I used to think that when we die, we either go to Heaven or Hell according to how we lived our life on earth. I've learned recently that when you're dead, you're dead. Nobody goes anywhere right away. The bible states that, "The dead know nothing." And that Jesus will come again to Judge the living and the dead. There's no "purgatory" and there are no second chances.

If you're living your life wildly and concerned only with pleasures of the flesh, worshipping your money, denying God, etc. then you might want to stop and think about what you're doing before it's too late.

Muglack · Post by **Muglack** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:09 am

God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Jesus was the son of God, and not God himself. The Holy Spirit is a completely seperate entity on it's own. If Jesus and God are the same "being" then God is a Satanist, and that opens a whole new can of beans.

Pike · Post by **Pike** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:10 am

Does this mean i can't masturbate anymore? What if I have the covers over me? Can God still see me? :facial:

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:23 am

Mindia wrote:To continue this most excellent thread...

Cat wants proof of the existence of God... It's Jesus. There's plenty of proof that He existed. God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Anyway, I cannot think of any proof nowadays that God exists and is among us. It's all faith-based.

Here's my take on it... I believe that it's better to live your life like there is a God, than to live your life like there isn't a God. Because when and (if) there truly is a "judgment day" I wouldn't want to be standing in the line of folks who didn't believe in God, and who did not live their life the way God intended (in the Bible).

First... exactly right. You won't ever be able to convince someone of a belief that's 100% based on faith. It's just as stupid for someone to ASK for proof as it is for a Bible-thumper to attempt to provide it. By admitting that you are an atheist, anything short of divine intervention will fall short as factual evidence. Such a person already knows this so asking for proof is just being argumentative. Regardless, trying to 'prove' the existance of God is a much more pure standard of folly.

Muglack, I agree with the whole seperate entity idea... I'd find it a lot easier to find evidence of 3 seperate beings than I would justification that they are the same. "Father forgive them for...Wait... I mean, Me, forgive them.. wait, wtf? Why do I need to ask myself?" 3-in-1... okee doke. However, since this is all interpretation of a flawed book in a mostly corrupt religion, it doesn't matter. I could probably convince someone with Leadaira's mentality that Revelations proves that Vonkaar of the Goat is destined to rule over the 19 virgins of the WB. Read the 'Bible Code' you need proof of such nonsensical garbage. Just the same, half the Christian world believes in the Trinity... based on a few obscure verses that somehow counteract 900 examples of individuality.

Oh well...

Finally... Mindia, would you say that an Amish landowner that lives his entire life helping his community with barn raising and butter churning will have just as happy a life as Hugh Hefner? I can tell you that I would rather live Hugh's life (yes, it's a step down from my own.. but for conversations sake...) than that of a smiley Amish dude. Hugh didn't live a life of chastity or humility... the Amish dude did. Who dies happier?

Metranon · Post by **Metranon** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:23 am

Have you guys seen my pet elephant? oh, but you cant see him, because hes invisible. he is also inaudible, odorless, weightless, tasteless, and occupies no space at all. BUT I GUARANTEE HES THERE, HES THE BEST PET ELEPHANT EVER, YOU DONT BELIEVE IN HIM OMG 1111!!!!1!!

now subsitute "god" for "my pet elephant" and realize how stupid religion sounds to people who don't believe in it because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:38 am

I bet the Amish guy is pretty happy. Hugh will never die a happy man. Yeah, he's surrounded by gorgeous women (who are only after his dough). He will also never be satisfied. The Amish dude is happy, content, and secure with his position in the afterlife. Hugh has to constantly stress about what kind of disease he's gonna catch from some whore, and about who's gonna sue him for a lot of his cash, and about who's going to swindle and sweet-talk his money out of his wallet.

Drunnken · Post by **Drunnken** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:45 am

at first when I saw this thread I wanted to post:

MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOUR GOD, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL

then I read some of it and was going to post:

religion = faith, isn't that the point? who cares what religious beliefs other people have?

then i thought about it all awhile and decided to post:

the only problems i have with religion are these, people using it's ability to control the masses for personal reasons, and the doctrine that everyone but you is worst off than you and you must convert them or they're worthless

after reading all that i've written i wondered this:

why is it that whenever (in my experience) a religious kid starts smoking weed, not just tries it but smokes it, they quickly lose their faith, and search for something tangible in religion, usually leading to a diminished role of religion in their life? maybe grass is the antichrist

Muglack · Post by **Muglack** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:57 am

Because potheads are undecisive, useless, and an overall burden on society. Not to mention that 90% of potheads think they're smart, the result of which is they get high and then sit around in one of their basements and have these "conversations" where everything will be deep and meaningful. This of course always leads to Religion because what could be deeper then that? Then the leader of the potheads, normally the one that arranges pick ups but in some cases the one in the group that has an IQ verging on normal, says something profound like "If god like, exsists and stuff, like why haven't I ever seen him, at least that I can remember seeing him, cause maybe I saw him and didn't know it, but I doubt it cause he's god so he'd be big and he'd glow and stuff." To which all the other retards, err potheads, start nodding in unison as if some great darkness had been lifted. They then decide that God can't be real because if he was he would of certainly shown himself to the Greaseball that had just shown them the path to eternal happiness.

Tae-Bo · Post by **Tae-Bo** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:39 am

Muglack wrote:Because potheads are undecisive, useless, and an overall burden on society. Not to mention that 90% of potheads think they're smart, the result of which is they get high and then sit around in one of their basements and have these "conversations" where everything will be deep and meaningful. This of course always leads to Religion because what could be deeper then that? Then the leader of the potheads, normally the one that arranges pick ups but in some cases the one in the group that has an IQ verging on normal, says something profound like "If god like, exsists and stuff, like why haven't I ever seen him, at least that I can remember seeing him, cause maybe I saw him and didn't know it, but I doubt it cause he's god so he'd be big and he'd glow and stuff." To which all the other retards, err potheads, start nodding in unison as if some great darkness had been lifted. They then decide that God can't be real because if he was he would of certainly shown himself to the Greaseball that had just shown them the path to eternal happiness.

someone needs to chill and smoke a bowl 8)

fuffalobukker · Post by **fuffalobukker** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:00 am

Muglack wrote:
God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Jesus was the son of God, and not God himself. The Holy Spirit is a completely seperate entity on it's own. If Jesus and God are the same "being" then God is a Satanist, and that opens a whole new can of beans.

Hi I don't know if someone responded to this or not, but you're knowledge of Jesus and God is somewhat lacking. In the Christian religon they are all the same person, and it' something that nonbelievers point out as one of the great contradictions in the bible. As he is referred to as the same being, and as seperate beings all in the same bible.

Although Jesus is the son of God, they are 'one', along with the holy spirit, they form the holy trinity, but still one being. There's no real explination I can give you, or anyone can give you to explain it, acording to religous leaders they will tell you something like "It's too complicated for the human mind to fully grasp" or something like that.

So as far as christianity is concerned, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the same.

-fuffalo

PS - don't we hang out with potheads? they dont seem like that to me

Drunnken · Post by **Drunnken** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:39 am

Muglack wrote:Because potheads are undecisive, useless, and an overall burden on society. Not to mention that 90% of potheads think they're smart, the result of which is they get high and then sit around in one of their basements and have these "conversations" where everything will be deep and meaningful. This of course always leads to Religion because what could be deeper then that? Then the leader of the potheads, normally the one that arranges pick ups but in some cases the one in the group that has an IQ verging on normal, says something profound like "If god like, exsists and stuff, like why haven't I ever seen him, at least that I can remember seeing him, cause maybe I saw him and didn't know it, but I doubt it cause he's god so he'd be big and he'd glow and stuff." To which all the other retards, err potheads, start nodding in unison as if some great darkness had been lifted. They then decide that God can't be real because if he was he would of certainly shown himself to the Greaseball that had just shown them the path to eternal happiness.

and then we all graduated from high school....

edit: I just finished reading your post, and btw you're an idiot

edit 2: I know it looks stupid to post defending stoners, especially after the guy that posted a picture of his bubbler has posted before me, but seriously what you posted proves 100% that you have no idea what you're talking about on this topic, and makes me wonder why you bothered to post about it at all.

Tuggan · Post by **Tuggan** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:16 am

smoke weed everyday 420 :bandit:

ps a god thread turned into a stoner bashing thread is fantastic.
pss fuck mindia

Athrok · Post by **Athrok** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:44 am

After reading a few posts from this thread, I'll just say try and not live like an asshole and leave it at that.

We all agree that no one is perfect.
Half of us think there's some type of judgement day and the other half don't.

Just making an attept to live as a basic human being, rather than a Catholic, Satanist (Ok long stretch there!), or atheist, makes everyone happy, mostly likely yourself included.

It's funny because so many people make an attempt to be a good religious follows, when in truth, they suck at life.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:14 am

fuffalobukker wrote:
Muglack wrote:
God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Jesus was the son of God, and not God himself. The Holy Spirit is a completely seperate entity on it's own. If Jesus and God are the same "being" then God is a Satanist, and that opens a whole new can of beans.

Hi I don't know if someone responded to this or not, but you're knowledge of Jesus and God is somewhat lacking. In the Christian religon they are all the same person, and it' something that nonbelievers point out as one of the great contradictions in the bible. As he is referred to as the same being, and as seperate beings all in the same bible.

Although Jesus is the son of God, they are 'one', along with the holy spirit, they form the holy trinity, but still one being. There's no real explination I can give you, or anyone can give you to explain it, acording to religous leaders they will tell you something like "It's too complicated for the human mind to fully grasp" or something like that.

So as far as christianity is concerned, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the same.

-fuffalo

PS - don't we hang out with potheads? they dont seem like that to me

Actually... only about half of the Christians believe in a Trinity, the others believe in seperate individuality. So, right off the bat your assumption is off. And, if you want to get into it... your position is already the underdog. The Bible makes references to Jesus being seperate from God about twenty times as many times as it does a Trinity.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:54 am

I agree almost wholeheartedly with Muglack...

All of my friends with the exception of one, smoke religiously. I watch them steadily get more and more retarded as a result.

And this unseen force compelling them to tell the whole world they smoke weed as if it makes them this much cooler, pisses me the fuck off.

"Look at me 420 omgz Im so cool dudezor" No weed doesnt make you cool, you do. So stfu and get down from cloud dumb.

brinstar · Post by **brinstar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:13 am

god

some people find it hard to accept that there are those out there who believe in virtue for its own sake. those who don't need a guy in a robe and a funny hat telling them why they should lead an honest, reverent, peaceful life, full of love and devoid of malice or neglect. those that are content to just kneel down and drink from the stream, unconcerned with where the stream came from or how much water they can snap up.

weed

i don't go running around telling people all about how whoa dude i got like blazed last night, because that's stupid. if you're going to do it, then do it-- don't use it to define your personality. there's no way to successfully rationalize it to someone who is fundamentally opposed to it, which is sad-- because it's usually those people that would benefit most from a few lungfuls. like mr. duck said, you can go ahead and flame me for smoking weed if you want to, it doesn't change the fact that i am a normal functioning member of society that works hard at his full time job, pays his bills on time, and creates as well as enjoys all manners of artistic expression.

labbats · Post by **labbats** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 am

brin, please tell me you didn't quote your IQ

brinstar · Post by **brinstar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:27 am

i did but i took it out because no one would believe me anyway

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:34 am

For those that missed it, he said his IQ was 210.

fuffalobukker · Post by **fuffalobukker** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:33 am

vonkaar wrote:
fuffalobukker wrote:
Muglack wrote:
God=Jesus=The Holy Spirit. 3-in-1. Pretty awesome.

Jesus was the son of God, and not God himself. The Holy Spirit is a completely seperate entity on it's own. If Jesus and God are the same "being" then God is a Satanist, and that opens a whole new can of beans.

Hi I don't know if someone responded to this or not, but you're knowledge of Jesus and God is somewhat lacking. In the Christian religon they are all the same person, and it' something that nonbelievers point out as one of the great contradictions in the bible. As he is referred to as the same being, and as seperate beings all in the same bible.

Although Jesus is the son of God, they are 'one', along with the holy spirit, they form the holy trinity, but still one being. There's no real explination I can give you, or anyone can give you to explain it, acording to religous leaders they will tell you something like "It's too complicated for the human mind to fully grasp" or something like that.

So as far as christianity is concerned, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the same.

-fuffalo

PS - don't we hang out with potheads? they dont seem like that to me

Actually... only about half of the Christians believe in a Trinity, the others believe in seperate individuality. So, right off the bat your assumption is off. And, if you want to get into it... your position is already the underdog. The Bible makes references to Jesus being seperate from God about twenty times as many times as it does a Trinity.

Any christian you talk to that says it is seperate individuals is unfamilar with the christian belief. Ask anyone high up in the church, or any fundamental christian - and thats what their religon says. It's clear you are just restating things you've heard, because there is no reference in the bible of the trinity, ever - that is a name we have given it. The bible does make reference to god being seperate, however it also states that they are one in the same.

There isn't a logical explination I can give, because there isn't one. But if you go and type "are god and jesus the same" in google, you will come up with 100 different christian websites that try to explain that they are indeed the same.

Just some examples for you (from christian websites):

Question: If people say that God and Jesus are the same person, why in John 3:16 does it say that God sent his son?

Answer: You write that "people say" that God and Jesus are the same person. Who are the people that say this? The people saying this apparently are not aware of the Bible teaching on this subject.

The Bible, especially the New Testament, teaches there is one God, but that God, unlike us human beings, exists in three Persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When Jesus gave the "Great Commission", He commanded the disciples to baptize the converts in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19) When the apostle Paul gave the benediction to the Corinthian Church, he mentioned all three persons in the Godhead, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2nd Corinthians 13:14). Both the baptismal formula and the benediction would logically require that the three persons, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit would have to be of Divine nature, and not some lower creature.

Bible Question: "How can God and Jesus be the same person? God calls him his son. Jesus said the Father is greater than I. But Jesus also said, the Father and I are one. What am I missing?"

Bible Answer: This seems to be one of those famous "contradictions" in the Bible that unbelievers like to talk about.

Indeed, Jesus did say the Father is greater than He is, while also saying that He and the Father are one, or the same.

But it's not a contradiction, just one of those great Bible truths that is far too deep for any human mind like ours to fully grasp.

Q Are God and Jesus the same person?

A Hard question because the answer is the mystery of the Trinity - Jesus is one of the three persons, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) in our one God

Again, if you do have christian friends that say they believe otherwise, tell them they may want to speak with their ministers or whoever is telling them otherwise.

-fuffalo

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:18 am

Fuffalo... you aren't speaking as one with experience. You are assuming that most Christian faiths believe in a Trinity. Also, I'm using the word Trinity for simplicity... I am fully aware that it's not in the Bible. It is similar to a *lot* of Biblical terms in the fact that it's man-made. For a concise thread, "Trinity" will refer to the belief that the 3 persons are a single entity. Get it?

The Catholics are the primary Christian faith that believes in the Trinity. I polled 10(Christian) people at work and 4 of them believed in the Trinity. Most of them go to various non-denominational churches. However, as a 'body' of faith, Christianity is *quite* split...

Southern Baptists believe in the Trinity.
Methodists believe in 3 seperate persons.
Lutherans believe in the Trinity.
Mormons believe in 3 seperate persons.
Catholics believe in the Trinity.
Jehova's Witness' believe in 3 seperate persons.
Presbyterians believe in the Trinity.
Pentecostal(ites? =p) believe in 3 seperate persons.
Unitarians believe in 3 seperate persons.
Seventh-Day-Adventists believe in 3 seperate persons.
Church of Christ believes in 3 seperate persons.
Episcopalians believe in the Trinity.

The whole idea of the Trinity wasn't even practised until the Nicene Council decided that it was necessary. That was 381 years after Jesus died. The explanations back then were sufficient for the simple-minded followers of a faith that was still in its infancy. Compound that with the fact that nobody really owned a Bible for another 1300 years and you *might* see just how antiquated this idea is. As soon as people were able to read for themselves and question this archaic idea, other religions that weren't Trinitarian sprung up.

And... they still call themselves Christians. Wanna know how many Methodists, Pentecostals and Mormons there are in the world? Yeah... that's more than a few 'Christians' that believe in 3 seperate beings. Aaaand, more often than not, most so-called non-denominational churches preach individuality over Trinitarianism. It's typically the more 'modern' religions that realize how hard it is to entertain the masses with notions of a 3-part Godhead... so they adopted the 3 individual entity system.

I have fun quotes too...

It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that the one is not three, and the three not one...
-- Jefferson s Works, Vol. IV, p. 205, Randolph's ed., quoted from John E. Remsberg, The Christ

Muglack · Post by **Muglack** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:30 am

You're splitting hairs over a book that has been translated and rewritten more times then you can count, and still some of those quotations you posted are against what you were saying. Let's assume for a minute that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit (which I'll admit I don't fully understand the concept of myself) are infact 3 parts of one divine being. This means that Jesus was preaching his own word, and telling others to worship him as God. There's countless references to "my Father" in the bible, which could of easily been "I".

Although I it is possible that all three are the same being, and there are things that support it like Jesus saying that the only way to heaven is through him, it seems more likely that they are indeed seperate. You could go into the Old Testament and look for writtings about the Messiah which would illustrate that he is indeed a Messenger of God and not God himself.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:50 am

Actually... only about half of the Christians believe in a Trinity, the others believe in seperate individuality.

I need to say something about this...

Here's a (partial) list of Christian Denominations that DO believe in the Holy Trinity:

All non-denominational, community, and foursquare churches
Assemblies of God
Baptists (all dozen+ branches included)
Catholics
Charismatics
Church of the Nazarene
Church of Christ
Episcopalians
Evangelical Protestant (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian)
Pentecostals
Seventh-Day Adventists
Unitarians

I'm curious as to who the other half of Christians are that believe in Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit as three separate entities...

Mormons do not believe in the Holy Trinity, and neither do Jehovah's Witnesses. But then again... to call JW's "Christians" is incorrect because they believe (just like the Jews) that Jesus was just a person, and not a deity.

This paragraph is the most important point to my post... To be a true "Christian", you have to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord. And to believe that Jesus is Lord is to believe in the Holy Trinity. There is no other way. A "man" cannot save us. Jesus as a "man" cannot forgive and absolve us for our transgressions and our sins.

It was a little hard for me to understand all of this until I read, and re-read different parts of the bible and many discussions with different pastors, deacons, and church elders. It was hard (at first) to understand that Jesus is Lord because as he was being crucified he said, "My God, My God... Why have you forsaken me?" However, In John 14, Jesus states "Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father." Jesus also makes reference to this in other passages as well. We can get into this specifically at a later time, or on another thread, which will give more clarification to the Holy Trinity issue... Unless of course you want to discuss it now.

Thon · Post by **Thon** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:52 am

why bother arguing with people that believe a schizo carpenter who got his ass nailed to some wood a few thousand years ago is our savior?

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:57 am

vonkaar wrote:Fuffalo... you aren't speaking as one with experience. You are assuming that most Christian faiths believe in a Trinity. Also, I'm using the word Trinity for simplicity... I am fully aware that it's not in the Bible. It is similar to a *lot* of Biblical terms in the fact that it's man-made. For a concise thread, "Trinity" will refer to the belief that the 3 persons are a single entity. Get it?

The Catholics are the primary Christian faith that believes in the Trinity. I polled 10(Christian) people at work and 4 of them believed in the Trinity. Most of them go to various non-denominational churches. However, as a 'body' of faith, Christianity is *quite* split...

Southern Baptists believe in the Trinity.
Methodists believe in 3 seperate persons.
Lutherans believe in the Trinity.
Mormons believe in 3 seperate persons.
Catholics believe in the Trinity.
Jehova's Witness' believe in 3 seperate persons.
Presbyterians believe in the Trinity.
Pentecostal(ites? =p) believe in 3 seperate persons.
Unitarians believe in 3 seperate persons.
Seventh-Day-Adventists believe in 3 seperate persons.
Church of Christ believes in 3 seperate persons.
Episcopalians believe in the Trinity.

The whole idea of the Trinity wasn't even practised until the Nicene Council decided that it was necessary. That was 381 years after Jesus died. The explanations back then were sufficient for the simple-minded followers of a faith that was still in its infancy. Compound that with the fact that nobody really owned a Bible for another 1300 years and you *might* see just how antiquated this idea is. As soon as people were able to read for themselves and question this archaic idea, other religions that weren't Trinitarian sprung up.

And... they still call themselves Christians. Wanna know how many Methodists, Pentecostals and Mormons there are in the world? Yeah... that's more than a few 'Christians' that believe in 3 seperate beings. Aaaand, more often than not, most so-called non-denominational churches preach individuality over Trinitarianism. It's typically the more 'modern' religions that realize how hard it is to entertain the masses with notions of a 3-part Godhead... so they adopted the 3 individual entity system.

I have fun quotes too...
It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that the one is not three, and the three not one...
-- Jefferson s Works, Vol. IV, p. 205, Randolph's ed., quoted from John E. Remsberg, The Christ

WHAT???

C'mon Vonkaar, do your homework. Methodists, Seventh-Day Adventists, Pentecostals, Unitarians, and the Church of Christ ALL believe in the Holy Trinity. I JUST READ THEIR DOCTRINES!

I go to the 7th-Day Adventist Church to worship on the Sabbath with my girlfriend (who is a 7th-Day Adventist). They MOST DEFINITELY believe in the Holy Trinity. We also go to a non-denominational church on Sunday (http://www.lakesidechurch.com) who also believes in the Holy Trinity.

Once again... you CANNOT be a true Christian if you do NOT believe in the Holy Trinity. The whole foundation and basis of "Christian" churches is rooted in the belief of the Holy Trinity.

Please tell me you were just kidding Vonkaar.

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