More downtime!

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Whisperwind was a day 1 server also. We've only had minor problems.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:49 pm

SOE was using 1998 technology, also, and still had a lot less problems.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:50 pm

and a lot less players

The Kizzy · Post by **The Kizzy** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:58 pm

watch the e penor slinging, I think I just got hit!!

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:32 pm

Lyion wrote:SOE was using 1998 technology, also, and still had a lot less problems.

They were also running it in the 90s, too. Apples and oranges.

TStorm · Post by **TStorm** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:23 am

runamonk wrote:
Tikker wrote:I don't ever remember EQ servers being down for the better part of a week at one time

Nameless was down for several days at one point, then they had to roll everyone back and rebuild it. SOE has had it's share of problems with servers, although I don't think they've had as many as blizzard lately.

Not once, but twice it did. They lost multiple drives at once in the array and had to restore from backups.

I'm starting to get fed up with the downtime myself and I don't even play on one of the bad 20 servers. I don't mind the 460 person login queues. I login, go make dinner and come back. It's when the mailbox and all the merchants poof and you just say "Oh shit, logout now or I'll lose everything I do until the servers crash" which is about 30 minutes...

I think Blizzard just needs to slow down and really assess what the issues are.

runamonk · Post by **runamonk** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:27 am

I wouldn't playing a little WoW since I'm pretty much bored with EQ2 but this would frustrate me to no end. I don't spend alot of time playing MMO's anymore and having my computer just sit there counting up the queue to login wouldn't last long. I remember doing that at the end of the beta and it sucked. :/

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:34 am

I've been in a queue 3 times ever and it's been in the past 3 weeks.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:37 am

runamonk wrote:I wouldn't playing a little WoW since I'm pretty much bored with EQ2 but this would frustrate me to no end. I don't spend alot of time playing MMO's anymore and having my computer just sit there counting up the queue to login wouldn't last long. I remember doing that at the end of the beta and it sucked. :/

Vaelie, get All Access. You can come fuck around in Jump to Lightspeed with me, and Planetside, Big Fuckin Robots. I think you'd enjoy it, and you can check them out for free.

Faylyn · Post by **Faylyn** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:24 am

I gotta give credit to them for atleast from a CS standpoint of giving something to them. Alot of people have a 2nd or 3rd charaters on different servers and typically they can play them when the main server is down. Blizz is still giving people something knowing they are possibily still playing.

I don't ever remember EQ servers being down for the better part of a week at one time

They were down for a while back in the beginning serveral times and for hours at a time to only play for 30 mintues and back down. Remember the great outage where it was down a weekend (they disbanded all guilds, added "x" to ends of names).

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:54 am

hours at a time is a lot different from days at a time

WoW is also not basically a brand new genre, which EQ was

they've had 5+ years to learn from EQ, DAoC, SB, Lineage, UO, etc etc etc

at this point, there's really no excuses for Blizzard other than they suck at server stability

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:58 am

Tikker wrote:hours at a time is a lot different from days at a time

WoW is also not basically a brand new genre, which EQ was

they've had 5+ years to learn from EQ, DAoC, SB, Lineage, UO, etc etc etc

at this point, there's really no excuses for Blizzard other than they suck at server stability

Also, server and network hardware is 100 times faster, 100 times cheaper, and much more reliable.

I think the problem is their planning was so far off on their initial rollout. They were ready for 200k and they are supporting 3 times that number and sucking ass at doing it.

Zanathar · Post by **Zanathar** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:54 pm

Dont ever forget, they shipped the 600,000 pieces of software.

Server instability is their own fault.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:28 pm

Blizzard sucks cock.

This far into the business they shouldn't be having these newbie problems.

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:00 pm

Harrison wrote:Blizzard sucks cock.

This far into the business they shouldn't be having these newbie problems.

So spake the self-styled expert of computer systems.

chanteez · Post by **chanteez** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:20 pm

I would like to see the difference if EQ (in original or eq2 form) actually implimented no zone times (instant zoning) like wow has and see if it changes eq's stability, plus add alot more people playing.

I would assume coding is more complicated on Blizz side, and server etc requires more than eq

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:21 pm

not to be on finawin's side or anything, but the squirrel who runs around the trees in my yard could do an equal job of supporting the WoW servers at this point

chanteez · Post by **chanteez** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:33 pm

and holland is also loving the increase in cheese sales from those who keep whining over and over and over again. goes both ways..

difference is some of us feel comparing the two games technically is apples and oranges. And really if its so bad that we cant handle it, we move on, no point whining about it.

Or go work for blizz and make our gaming life so much better...

btw since last down time , I have had no issues at all on Hyjal.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:51 pm

I applied for some of the Blizz jobs, so i'm doing my part!

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:42 pm

Chanteez, some of us are making observations about how Blizzard is doing. Try not taking it personally and acting like a big people, k? If you feel they are doing stellar, then just say so. If you can't handle others opinions on your gaming hobbies the Internet is not for you.

Post by **Arlos** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:00 pm

As best I've been able to figure out, the issue seems to be not with the overall network connection, or even the world servers. Where they seem to be breaking down is on the database side of things. No, I can't prove this, but after working for a lot of years in supporting networks, you can get a feel for where the issues are. Main clue is that when things go, it's usually Mail and the Auction hall that barf. Actual zone servers crashing is pretty rare, though it does happen, but I think that's a seperate issue.

My guess is that it's related to the Auction Halls. Remember, the Auction Halls were *NOT* supposed to be part of beta/initial release. Public outcry from everyone playing Beta was such that they added them in way ahead of original schedule. Given that situatino, I'm wondering just how much of a kludge the systems are for the AH, and just what kind of load they're placing on the database and the servers running it.

It's been commented here before how they seem to be looking for a bunch of Oracle people. My guess is they've got something either broken on the back end causing memory leaks or something, so that when they get sufficient loads, they get bogged down and die, or they simply haven't figured out how to ramp up the system they have to be able to deal with the query volume.

Obviously that's not something they're going to tell us, but I think I'm at least close to the mark. Lyion, though, can speak with much more knowledge about database issues than I can.

-Arlos

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:13 pm

If you dont see items disappearing, spawns disappearing, login servers down, or something transaction related then i'ts probably not a database issue, I wouldn't think.

I'd guess the lag you are seeing is somewhat database related. I don't think the server stability is, though.

My hypothesis is I think the problems are related to them using substandard hardware, most likely being a result of their huge initial sales results and being forced to push out their standby and QA hardware into production. That could be way off.

Some of you LOS people should get the real scoop. It may be something completely unrelated, or the true cause of most IT headaches, those hidden gremlins.

Post by **Arlos** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:36 pm

Well, frequently when the servers crash, you can tell by the fact that you can go places, and you won't see any NPCs at all, and when the server comes back, you'll be rolled back to when the start of the crash happened. That sounds to me like the database is freezing, and isn't updating your information at all. Since it never realizes you've moved, it doesn't know to draw in the NPCs at your new location, and it never gets the updated information to save new char information, like skill increases, items you may have traded, etc.

So, there are definitely database-related components to whatever's happening and killing the servers. Not saying it's not compounded by the fact that they've had to ramp up their deployment levels at insane rates of speed, but I honestly think that it all goes back to their database processing.

-Arlos

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:16 pm

The databases and the world servers aren't on the same hardware unless they are retarded.

Given how much of their "expertise" we've seen thus far, I wouldn't be surprised if they had hamsters running the show.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:33 pm

Arlos wrote:Well, frequently when the servers crash, you can tell by the fact that you can go places, and you won't see any NPCs at all, and when the server comes back, you'll be rolled back to when the start of the crash happened.

That's simply your client still working and the server not sending you information.

The rollback is the same with any database on a system that crashed. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard didnt have their databases tuned and RAC ready to avoid problems.

The database is one piece of the puzzle, and I doubt its the weak link. If database design or implementation was the problem, you'd see the same crashes on all Blizzards servers as they are all running on the same design linking to the same repository. Since you don't that leads me to believe the issue is hardware.

Harrison wrote:The databases and the world servers aren't on the same hardware unless they are retarded.

Why wouldnt they be on the same hardware? They probably aren't on the same disk, but the individual instances are probably on the same server cluster for each WOW server.