Is homosexuality genetic or behavioral?

[Lyion]

Since my judicial activist thread was hijacked, I'm creating a topic to allow all the people who wish to discuss this subject a topic of their own.

It is my opinion homosexual behavior is learned. This is different from heterosexual behavior which mother nature promotes for obvious reasons.

No researcher has found provable differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals that weren't caused by their behavior. No one has found a single heredible genetic, hormonal or physical difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals - at least none that is replicatable. While this isnt proof, it suggests that none has been found because none exists.

Two large studies asked homosexuals to explain the origins of their desires and behaviors - how they became gay. The first of these studies was conducted by Kinsey in the 1940s and involved 1700 homosexuals. The second, in 1970, involved 979 homosexuals. Both were conducted prior to the period when the "gay rights" movement started to politicize the issue of homosexual origins. Both reported essentially the same findings: Homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences.

There is a belief that homosexuality is learned from older individuals. The first homosexual encounter is usually initiated by an older person. In separate studies 60-65% of the respondents claimed that their first partner was someone older who initiated the sexual experience. It also makes one consider whether early homosexual experiences influence adult patterns of behavior.

Finally, the biggest question in regards to sexual behavior and genetic disposition is the number of ex-homosexuals - those who have chose to change not only their habits, but also the object of their desire. Because of the large number, it does make it very difficult to believe that this is genetic, and not a choice.

[Martrae]

So get your kids older age prostitutes of the opposite sex to teach them the 'proper' way to be?

[shiraz]

Lyion, I told you that those links I posted were meant for comic relief

I agree with you that there is no rigorous study supporting or disproving a genetic component to homosexuality. As such, my views are admittedly beliefs. I think that there is probably a continuum of homosexual tendency, based in genetics and in environment. Just like so many other behavior traits, it isn't a single on/off gene, it isn't all environment, it isn't all genetic. And yeah, I think there is such a thing as being a little bit gay, or totally gay. It's a continuum.

My views are based on personal observation and belief so there really isn't anyway to have a debate about it. A discussion, sure.

[Lyion]

Good discussion is what a message board is for...

Although I have to remind some of the more energitic types not to take things personally <including myself>.

[Langston]

It's a learned behavior.

That's my opinon... prove me wrong.

[Tacks]

whoa, i've never seen this topic here before

[Darcler]

Genetic. Noone ever taught me to like girls. Bisexuality wasnt a 'trend' when I was in sixth grade. I just knew I liked the womens.
My ex says the same. He never was taught that he liked boys. He just did.

[shiraz]

That's just it, it can't be proved it's learned, and it can't be proved it's genetic. What you believe basically boils down to your belief system and personal experience.

Where does my belief come from? An acquaintance of mine in college jumped from the library tower because he was feeling homosexual urges and didn't know how to stop, and didn't know how to be straight. He knew his parents would disown him and truly did not want to be gay. He didn't die, but was in pretty serious condition for the rest of the year. After this, he "came out" and he seems to be emotionally stable and a productive member of society. That experience was what led me to believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I just couldn't comprehend how this could happen over a choice. Anyways, this isn't "proof" but it is what gave me my opinion.

[Malluas]

no one knows jack about it. Which means... you can't claim either way... so gays can't claim they were born that way, others can't claim its learned.

Shiraz... yea then Anne Hesch (i think thats how to spell her last name) came out and said they chose.

Straight guys had happy marriages till they turned bad then they turned, same with women.

So atm there are proof that its genetic and learned.

IMO it really doesn't matter. Until they it says in the Constitution GAYS HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY... or the US government and all the states say its ok... you can't shove it on people that donn't want it.

[Tikker]

It's genetic (though there are those that make the conscious decision to play for the other team)


If you look at any of the mammal species, there's a certain percentage that show a predisposition to trying to mate with members of the same sex

[Ginzburgh]

I think it's biological. I know a few gay guys that didn't have sex with anyone until they were teenagers, they grew up in totally normal "heterosexual" households and just ended up being gay.

The only reason that I think it's biological, is because I like women. I can't explain why I like women but the sight of a hot woman's ass just does something to my brain. I cannot look at another man in the same way and feel the same feeling. The same goes for gay men but it's just opposite.

I have another question though, think about this:

You have two gay guys in a relationship. Now it's normal for a gay guy to strive to become a woman. Sex change etc. So one of the gay guys in a relationship goes the whole 9 yards, gets the surgery, takes the pills and is now a woman. So...is it shallow for his boyfriend to leave him...for god sakes the guy is a gay man and now he has to date a woman!

[Tossica]

Wanting to change genders is completely different than being gay. It's NOT normal for one of a gay couple to want to be a woman.

[Ginzburgh]

Wanting to change genders is completely different than being gay. It's NOT normal for one of a gay couple to want to be a woman.

That all depends on how you define "normal".

In my opinion, if it takes a gender switch to make a person happy and the science is available to make it happen, let them do it. It's not hurting anyone.

[shiraz]

I wasn't claiming that it was never a choice. I think it's a continuum, for some it's a choice and for some it is not. And as I stated, that is just my opinion based on a few personal experiences.

Something I am wondering about, if a guy gets a sex change, can she (he) then marry a guy legally? That brings up a more basic question about how one defines gender? There are those genetic disorders where someone is genetically XY, but the Y is suppressed and they develop as infertile females. There are other disorders like, XXY, XYY, etc. Anyhow, something to think about....

[Tossica]

I gathered from your post that you assume that in a gay relationship, one of them plays the part of the woman. That's not the case. It may be the case in SOME relationships but the desire to switch genders does not go hand in hand with being gay. I would say most fags I know are perfectly happy being the sex they were born as. I have only known a few transgenered people over the years and they were not even necessarily homosexual.

[Lyion]

The only reason that I think it's biological, is because I like women. I can't explain why I like women but the sight of a hot woman's ass just does something to my brain. I cannot look at another man in the same way and feel the same feeling. The same goes for gay men but it's just opposite.

The question then becomes if you had grown up in a more conducive atmosphere to homosexuality and experimented with it, would you then be gay, versus what you are now?
If your gay friend hadn't been experimenting with homosexuality, would he be straight? I believe the answer is yes.

Different cultures have different things that appeal to them and its based on behavioral concepts, I think. There is a lot within our culture that promotes homosexuality and thats why you have a small group who is gay.

In Ancient Sparta in the military all men performed homosexual sex . This was done to bond the men to each other. It was taught from an early age and it was not an issue. Thus, everyone did it. In Sharia based Islamic countries there is no homosexuality. Its completely taboo.

Some societys prefer overweight women. Men are culturally conditioned to desire fat girls. The exact opposite is true here because of applied behavior. We push forward a standard of exceedingly thin women. So, your 'natural instincts' for what you are attracted to is not really natural but applied behavior.

Continuing down this path, the main reason I think its choice driven is the large amount of people who were homosexual and 'become' straight, as well as vice versa. This is not logical in explaining it as a genetic trait.

Reproduction is a matter of natural instincts. Alternative sexual choices to me is moreso a matter of behavior that is learned.

[Tossica]

Shiraz,

Yes, you legally become the other sex... ie, use their bathrooms, your drivers license lists you as the other gender, you can marry etc.

[Lyion]

if a guy gets a sex change, can she (he) then marry a guy legally?

I have no idea if one can. If someone is transgendered and gets a sex change operation, and legally becomes a woman I don't see a reason why he/she shouldnt be able to marry, personally.
Thats probably a legal pandora's box, though.

It fits within the legal context of marriage in my mind, but I'm sure others will disagree.

Google Addendum: one-half of all U.S. States allow issuance of a new birth certificate following a sex change. These states also permit those who have undergone sexual reassignment surgery to marry someone who was once the same gender as they were.

[shiraz]

Very interesting, so you can't marry someone of the same sex, but if you get a sex change operation then you can (well marry someone of your original sex). Is that philosophically consistent?

[Lyion]

But we aren't talking philosophically consistent. We're talking legal.

I'd guess getting a sex change operation isn't simple. If someone went through the process and changed their gender, birth certificate, etc they would be that gender. To me it's no different than a naturalized US Citizen getting the rights of all US Citizens. He's not native but he is what he is.

[Tossica]

Lyion and the other dummies in this thread,


If anything, heterosexuality is conditioned in to people, not homosexuality. You have hetero influence EVERYWHERE, all day long. Mom and dad, TV, magazines, etc. All day long the man + woman model is promoted and gender roles are pounded in to childrens heads from the day they were born. Do you honestly think that a handful of early homosexual experiences would have THAT much influence on a person as to completely negate all that hetero conditioning? Give me a break...

[Lyion]

Things that are taboo or forbidden are more appealing than things that are mainstream. You of all people are a perfect example of that, Tossica.

A handful of homosexual experiences as a youngster is going to leave more of an impression than 10 years of watching The Waltons.

[Eziekial]

It's a shame you felt the need to add a disparaging remark before your interesting and insightful post, Toss.

I wonder if the increase in homosexual influence (Queer eye, Metrosexual, etc..) in today's society has a measurable corresponding increase in the number of gays as a percentage of society? That would be very helpful if we could accurately count all the homos for scientific study.

[Tossica]

It's a shame you felt the need to add a disparaging remark before your interesting and insightful post, Toss.

I wonder if the increase in homosexual influence (Queer eye, Metrosexual, etc..) in today's society has a measurable corresponding increase in the number of gays as a percentage of society? That would be very helpful if we could accurately count all the homos for scientific study.

Dear dummy,

I seriously doubt it will have an effect on the number of homosexuals as a percentage. What it WILL have an effect on is the number of people that willingly admit their orientation. In addition, hopefully it will have an effect on societies views and acceptance of those that do choose to openly admit their orientation.

[horendus]

That's just it, it can't be proved it's learned, and it can't be proved it's genetic. What you believe basically boils down to your belief system and personal experience.

Where does my belief come from? An acquaintance of mine in college jumped from the library tower because he was feeling homosexual urges and didn't know how to stop, and didn't know how to be straight. He knew his parents would disown him and truly did not want to be gay. He didn't die, but was in pretty serious condition for the rest of the year. After this, he "came out" and he seems to be emotionally stable and a productive member of society. That experience was what led me to believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I just couldn't comprehend how this could happen over a choice. Anyways, this isn't "proof" but it is what gave me my opinion.

So by this logic, a person that cannot sew nor do they know where to begin in learning to sew has a genetic defect (in terms of your 'normal' majority)?

I think it may be a bit of both. Early on in life when your mind and body are developing evironmental contributors shape your mind and body and become a physical attribute of your self.

There have been many studies on this subject in regard to different areas. The studies focus on sexual fetishes, cravings, and behavioral urges.

Role-playing as a sexual enhancement is usually a product of a prolonged attachement to costumes, comics, dolls, etc. Almost everyone has a secret fetish that really gets them going even if it would seem odd and you know it is odd, it's just something that triggers a response on a psychological and physiological level. You may not even know you have a fetish, most people are not aware of it.

Homosexuality may very well be a result of this. Perhaps it is linked to early development, something happened, whether it was a major event or a subconcious thing. You now associate the hormones emitted by your gender as sexual cues.

Love, lust, sexual preference, all of those are chemical reactions in response to hormones/pherimones.

Changing is a matter of addressing the behavioral subconcious. Find out what it is that causes you to associate it that way, then work on addressing that issue.

This, of course, is only if you see it as a problem.