House Panel Seeks to Keep Schiavo Alive

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:24 pm

I would not let my selfish personal desires keep a dead person in a vegatative state for 20 years with no hope of ever being alive or coming out of a vegatative state. Even worse, there's a chance a sliver of life within her could be alive and in unendurable mental agony.

In this case I would trust the numerous doctors who believe she is brain dead, and not the right to life activists who care more for a cause than a womans wish.

No, this is a political circus being made out of a person who is already dead. It has been through the courts where the real evidence and doctors have been consulted.

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:44 pm

As pointed out in Schiavo v. Bush(emphasis mine):

The severity of Theresa’s medical condition was explained by the Second District as follows:

The evidence is overwhelming that Theresa is in a permanent or persistent vegetative state. It is important to understand that a persistent vegetative state is not simply a coma. She is not asleep. She has cycles of apparent wakefulness and apparent sleep without any cognition or awareness. As she breathes, she often makes moaning sounds. Theresa has severe contractures of her hands, elbows, knees, and feet.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa’s brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid.

Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs. She could remain in this state for many years. Schiavo I, 780 So. 2d at 177. In affirming the trial court’s order, the Second District concluded by stating:

In the final analysis, the difficult question that faced the trial court was whether Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, not after a few weeks in a coma, but after ten years in a persistent vegetative state that has robbed her of most of her cerebrum and all but the most instinctive of neurological functions, with no hope of a medical cure but with sufficient money and strength of body to live indefinitely, would choose to continue the constant nursing care and the supporting tubes in hopes that a miracle would somehow recreate her missing brain tissue, or whether she would wish to permit a natural death process to take its course and for her family members and loved ones to be free to continue their lives. After due consideration, we conclude that the trial judge had clear and convincing evidence to answer this question as he did.

Her brain cortex is GONE. It's not like being in a coma, it's not like being asleep, the cortex doesn't grow BACK. All she has left seems to be her brainstem, which allows her to twitch, grimace, grunt and swallow saliva.

Stop playing political games with this poor woman's body, and let her die like she said she would want to, which was proven in court.

--R.

shiraz · Post by **shiraz** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:46 pm

Well, let's just say that I am not convinced enough that she is brain dead enough to not suffer while slowly starving over seven(?) days. Remember, this states that "much" of her brain cortex is gone. Is enough active and functioning to sense pain and "suffer"? There is certainly a chance.

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:51 pm

shiraz wrote:Well, let's just say that I am not convinced enough that she is brain dead enough to not suffer while slowly starving over seven(?) days. Remember, this states that "much" of her brain cortex is gone. Is enough active and functioning to sense pain and "suffer"? There is certainly a chance.

So you think you have some right to trump her expressed wish not to be kept alive in the state she's become?

--R.

Post by **Martrae** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:52 pm

It is barbaric, they are right about that, but so is keeping her in this state and not allowing her (and her family) to move on.

I would absolutely want the plug pulled....a couple days of starving vs. decades of nothingness says it all imo.

There are worse things than death and this is one.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:55 pm

Kizzy wrote:I thought about this some, and I am a little irriated at the hypocrisy in this thread. My view on abortion was brought up. Would I ever have an abortion? I can say with 95% certainty that NO, I would not. I also say that it is not my place to choose or judge what another woman does with her body. Finawin, for example believes no woman has the right to abort a fetus.

Finawin, this woman is being kept alive by a feeding tube, and in essence that is how a fetus is kept alive, by a sort of feeding tube, the ambilical cord. So if science found away to detach the ambilical cord from a fetus, letting it starve to death, would that be acceptable to you? Guess I am not the only one being hypocritcal here.

SHE HAS NO FUCKING BRAIN (the part that discerns us from being an amoeba or a human being anyway)

A baby is NOT YOUR FUCKING BODY IT IS A PERSON

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:57 pm

Martrae wrote:It is barbaric, they are right about that, but so is keeping her in this state and not allowing her (and her family) to move on.

I would absolutely want the plug pulled....a couple days of starving vs. decades of nothingness says it all imo.

There are worse things than death and this is one.

My mother said, if she became like that, and we didn't let her go, she swore she'd come back and make us miserable.

The people keeping her alive against her wishes are a pack of god-damned ghouls, and they sicken me.

--R.

shiraz · Post by **shiraz** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:58 pm

So you think you have some right to trump her expressed wish not to be kept alive in the state she's become?

I don't think I have a right to trump anyone's wish, I am just stating my opinion. Starving to death is a really horrible way to go, even if you want to die. There was the case of a paralyzed girl who was conscious but in great pain. She fought for years for the right to die. They finally told her she could have the feeding tube removed. After a few days she said she wanted it back, the agony was too great even though she truly wanted to die. She is now fighting for the right to die by other means. I cannot remember her name, she has been on several national news interviews though.

araby · Post by **araby** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:40 pm

What *other* people think is best for this woman is why after 14 years her body has continued to lie on a bed with tubes in it. She has NO quality of life. She doesn't even KNOW it if she is starving. That's the point. It's cruel to leave her in that situation, just as much as you guys think it's cruel to remove the tube.

Does anyone have a problem with the fact that her husband has been dating a woman for two years? I can't believe that hasn't come up yet.

Post by **Martrae** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:57 pm

Longer than that...they have 2 kids.

I really can't blame him...she's really been dead for 14 years.

Tuggan · Post by **Tuggan** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:29 pm

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:43 pm

No personal attacks. Say your point and do not make it personal.

Diekan · Post by **Diekan** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:44 pm

To bad the government wants to decide YOUR right to live or die...

The whole starving to death issue could be put easily to rest with three letters.

K+ and Cl-

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:59 pm

Damnit that was good too.

araby · Post by **araby** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:22 pm

lol Lyion is quick, he's like hiding in the bushes and then JUMPS OUT

Scoota McGee · Post by **Scoota McGee** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:30 pm

If she's a vegetable does she really give a fuck if she's alive or dead... or how she dies?

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:48 pm

Looks like the GOP is goign to run a bill thru Congress tomorrow to somehow force them to put the tube back in her. Someone (deLay?) was quoted as saying it would be a 'tailored' bill that would only affect Terry Schiavo.

This will get slaughtered in the courts if that's the case. Passing laws that are designed to affect a single person just oddly happens to be unconstitutional. Not to mention the whole goal is to overturn a final court judgement, which ALSO happens to be unconstitutional.

But the GOP gets to say 'look, we tried' for their base.

How much does it cost to keep Congress sitting on a weekend, someone should submit a bill to the GOP for it. Not to mention the incoming costs to defend a lawsuit up to the USSC a couple of times before Terry finally gets to die in peace like she wanted to.

--R.

The Kizzy · Post by **The Kizzy** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:59 pm

tyrant.

mappatazee · Post by **mappatazee** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:47 pm

A brain? So what? Lots of animals have brains. A dog is smarter than a fetus.

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:21 pm

If you were in this woman's situation would you want to be kept alive by a machine? For fucks sake, there is NO CHANCE of a medical breakthrough to save this woman, her brain is liquidated for the most part.

If I found out my family was keeping me alive in a condition like this, I would personally haunt their asses once I finally kicked it. At that point you are not being kept alive for your sake, it is because your family is too fucking selfish to accept the pain of letting you die.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:23 pm

Since my wonderful post was deleted I will reform it.

What part of a seperate entity don't you understand? Since when did a human being become one of your appendages?

You are carrying it and help raise it from the inside. It is still a seperate human being. Selfish bitches need to realize that they fucked up and have to live with it. You do not fucking murder a human being because you couldn't keep your legs closed.

THE BABY IS NOT ANOTHER FUCKING APPENDAGE

How you got to your age living in such a dense field of ignorance purely shocks me to my core.

Diabolik · Post by **Diabolik** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:08 pm

When you ovulate, maybe then someone will care about your opinion.

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:19 pm

Speaking of euthanasia, I saw Million Dollar Baby this weekend. Very good movie, and it really makes you think about this topic. Personnally, I find it very difficult to understand how a simple piece of paper (living will) can have such a dramatic effect on people's lives. I would hope that somehow we find a way to live with modern medicine that save lives but still not cure death.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:59 pm

It's not an opinion, it's a fucking fact.

A baby is not an appendage.

Ending the bodily functions of someone already dead by all accounts is murder but killing a baby with a working brain, thoughts, dreams, feelings...is not?

100% illogical moronic bullshit spewed forth by selfish cunts with no morals.

The Kizzy · Post by **The Kizzy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:31 pm

Lyion, Harrison posted another personal attack on me, please remove it. Thank you.