Prison for murder

[Tacks]

Only people without family would get murdered.

No...he said let the VICTIM's family decide...that's crazy talk.

[DangerPaul]

I think America would be better if we had prison like Escape from New York and police like Judge Dredd!

[Martrae]

Read it again, Taxx....it will sink in eventually...

[DangerPaul]

I doubt it

[Langston]

If they didnt have things like TV and commisaries and outside, etc etc, they would rot to death and kill each other.

Good. Since we can't legally have them executed, they're doing us a favor.

If you premediatedly kill a person, you're life is forfeit, in my book.

As far as the rare "innocent" that gets criminalized... it's the price you pay for the greater good of humanity. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, as they say. It is unfortunate, but when you're dealing with such extremities as murder and execution, there is no such thing as 100% and crying about that 1% of innocents is likely whining about the splinter in your finger while you look at your severed leg on the ground and your blood pumping out of your hewn femoral artery.

The narrow-mindedness of the "think of the children!" people that argue against the death-penalty because they'd have a guilty conscience about an innocent person inadvertently being charged and potentially sentenced is downright amazingly short-sighted.

Frankly, no. 25 years in jail is NOT enough for someone planning, staging, and then murdering another person. They don't DESERVE the opportunity. We do not NEED these kinds of people in society. Period.

For second degree murder and crimes of passion... sorry - regardless of if you caught your wife taking it up the ass doggy style bent over your kitchen table by your most hated boss wearing your favorite shirt after shitting in your shoes and killing your dog, you are STILL RESPONSIBLE for you actions. Again... PERIOD. I don't give a flying fuck if you were "upset", "angered to the point of distraction", or "crazed emotionally". You killed another person. If you can't have better self control and restraint, then you DESERVE 25 years in jail. Maybe after your ass hammered by a bunch of 280lb black guys you'll learn when to take a punch to the jaw without losing your shit and killing someone.

[DangerPaul]

what about self defense ?

[Skrum]

I thought death row was segregated so the 280lb black guys couldn't work over fresh meat?

[DangerPaul]

It is, only when, "oops, we do not know how Mr Dahmer got into general population." that justice is really served.

[Langston]

what about self defense ?

How does that matter? If you're acting out of self defense, you'll be charged with manslaughter. If you're charged and found guilty of greater than that, then you went too far in your "defense". You'll have to provide an example of where someone was charged with First/Second Murder for defending themselves AND found guilty.

[Tacks]

Read it again, Taxx....it will sink in eventually...

No I understand now. Remember, writing from work=P I confused murder with death sentence.

[Skrum]

If I was supremocommander of the united states, I would turn Utah into a giant prison, load it with video cameras and weapons, and offer full pardons to the last person alive in a cellblock. Course what noone tells you is your pardon only entitles you to go to the outer areas of utah to work in factories making cheap shoes and electronics. Boon to the economy from US manufactured goods and revenues for the government from subscription fees to the Utah Mayhem channel.

[The Kizzy]

Ok kizzy not to sound disrepsectful to you or or bro...but lets look at this from a different stand point. do you think 10 years for accesory would be just fine and dandy if say the shotgun sprayed your kid all over the pavement?

No disrespect taken.

There are no accesory laws in Texas, which is why he was charged with murder.

He planned out a robbery. Sucks that the victim, Eric, was a good friend of our family, and actually helped my brother get a decent job even though he never finsihed high school, and he pushed him to get his GED.

Aaron was high, they planned to take a "fake"shotgun, that was a "souveniour" that belonged to the other guys family and scare him with it to get the money he wa meeting them with. Not even alot of money. He premeditated robbery, even robbery at gun point. What the other guy did was take Eric's life. Aaron just wanted to take his money. Aaron would have NEVER agreed to killing someone. This boy used to cry when our dog would get ahold of a stray cat.

Sounds stupid, no? What my brother did was wrong, I will never deny that, or forgive him for what he has done. But I guarantee you the day he gets out, he will have a room in my house to sleep in, and I will use whatever connectioons I have to get him a good job. Because he will have done his time and paid for his crime.

I was probably the biggest advocate for the death penalty that I knew at one time. People who got off on technecalities made me sick, and their lawyers were scum. Assrape wasn't good enough for half of the people in jail. They deserved what they got. Guess when it happens to you or your family members, you see things differntly.

[Diekan]

I think America would be better if we had prison like Escape from New York and police like Judge Dredd!

and Robocop!

[Tossica]

Real life story here:

Fall of 2003....

I had just finished up my DJ gig on a Monday night. One of my friends decided to have a few of us back to his house for a beer etc. He has a nice house in South Mpls and is a great host. About 10 of us from the bar headed over to his house and my friend and I got there about 2:30AM, about 20 minutes after the host and his crew. Apparantly, the hosts invitation was overheard by a couple of thugs from the bar because when we showed up, these two drunk guys were walking up and down the sidewalk looking for the right house. They saw us go up to the door and tried to follow us in. The host greeted us at the door but wouldn't let the other 2 guys in because noone knew them and they were obviously looking for trouble. A couple of the guys at the house tried to talk them down, telling them to go home, etc that it was a private party, blah blah blah... well they started throwing punches and popped my friend "Ralph" in the mouth and then took off saying "We're going to get our gats". We all kinda figured it was all over with and cracked a beer. To be "safe" the host went to his safe and got his handgun. We were all doing out thing, talking, drinking etc when about 20 minutes later, we hear tires skidding on pavement from outside and look out to see our two friends making a beeline for the front door. One of the girls at the party had just come in from outside and before she could get the front door closed, they smacked her in the head with a hammer or something and knocked her back through the front door and tried to force their way inside. The host and another friend were standing right by the door and clocked them both with the beer bottles they were holding while we all pushed them out the front door and got the door locked. About 10 seconds later we hear "pop...pop..pop.......pop" come from outside and we all hit the floor thinking they were shooting in to the house. Everything is quiet for a minute and suddenly our friend "Ralph" appears at the back door wanting to be let in. We let him in and he tells us we all have to go "LIKE RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!" so we all split out the back door and take off down the street. Our car was parked right out front of the house and we figured the dudes were still there so we took off the other direction and called a friend to pick us up.

The next morning, I get a call from Sargeant So and So, homicide detective for the MPD. He wants to talk to me... I thought for sure at least 2 of my friends who I could not account for in the mayhem were dead.

A year later...

Here I am sitting in court testifying on behalf of my friend "Ralph". He is charged with 2 counts of murder for shooting the two thugs that he was certain had just busted in to the house and killed his friends inside. Apparantly, he had taken the hosts handgun and stepped out a side door as the thugs were busting their way in. He thought they had already gone in, shot the place up and were on their way back out the door. He shot them both dead on the front steps.

The stupid son of a bitches should have just gone home...

My friend "Ralph" was charged with 2 counts of 2nd degree murder and sentenced to 20 years in prison for each count. He will get out in 20 years total if he makes good time. The judge was lenient on him.

That whole ordeal has haunted me for the last 2+ years... It makes you think... what COULD have happened if? What if? What if? etc...

Did the night need to end with 2 dead thugs? Probably not... come to find out, they did NOT have guns but how the fuck are we supposed to know that? If they were not dead, would they have continued to stalk the house for months or since they knew where we hung out, would they come down and start shit all the time? Who knows... They are dead motherfuckers now.

[xaoshaen]

The biggest problem I see with the death penalty in America is not the potential loss of innocent life, but the inability to apply it in a consistent and relatively fair manner. It's far too easy to bog down the American court system with cash. Rich murderers go to prison, poor murderers die. The discrepancies in sentencing with regards to race are disturbing as well.

Right now, the death penalty primarily serves to reduce crime rates by cutting down on the number of repeat offenders. To be a truly effective method of punishment, it needs to act as a deterrent as well. It needs to be a case of knowing you will die if you unjustly kill another human being. It can't be a mere possibility and it can't be a ten- or fifteen-year process. It needs to be a genuine spectre of imminent death.

The loss of innocent life in such a situation is analogous to friendly fire in combat. Despite the best precautions we can take, it will happen. Capital punishment should only be incorporated in a judicial system when it will save more innocent lives than it threatens: when it is applied consistently enough to act as a true deterrent. It's bitterly ironic that in order to make the death penalty a successful tool for saving lives we have to use it to kill more people.

[Lyion]

He didn't pull the trigger. It takes a different type of person to do that. I don't think her brother is/was a killer.

The sad thing is after 10 years in prison he'll probably end up a killer.

Our penal system is terrible. It is complete ass and should be redone in a manner to make criminals who spend life in prison be able to be productive members of society while isolated from all but their families.

[Martrae]

Shit, we can't even make people on welfare to be productive members of society and you expect us to reform criminals?

[Lyion]

Criminals lose rights and entitlements.

We need a version of the Foreign legion to send these people to.

[Eziekial]

Send them to Canada to harvest moose droppings for an alternative fuel program.

[Zanathar]

Ok kizzy not to sound disrepsectful to you or or bro...but lets look at this from a different stand point. do you think 10 years for accesory would be just fine and dandy if say the shotgun sprayed your kid all over the pavement?

No disrespect taken.

There are no accesory laws in Texas, which is why he was charged with murder.

He planned out a robbery. Sucks that the victim, Eric, was a good friend of our family, and actually helped my brother get a decent job even though he never finsihed high school, and he pushed him to get his GED.

Aaron was high, they planned to take a "fake"shotgun, that was a "souveniour" that belonged to the other guys family and scare him with it to get the money he wa meeting them with. Not even alot of money. He premeditated robbery, even robbery at gun point. What the other guy did was take Eric's life. Aaron just wanted to take his money. Aaron would have NEVER agreed to killing someone. This boy used to cry when our dog would get ahold of a stray cat.

Sounds stupid, no? What my brother did was wrong, I will never deny that, or forgive him for what he has done. But I guarantee you the day he gets out, he will have a room in my house to sleep in, and I will use whatever connectioons I have to get him a good job. Because he will have done his time and paid for his crime.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If your brother had not planned to rob him, Eric would be alive. Period.

[Zanchief]

He didn't pull the trigger. It takes a different type of person to do that. I don't think her brother is/was a killer.

The sad thing is after 10 years in prison he'll probably end up a killer.

Our penal system is terrible. It is complete ass and should be redone in a manner to make criminals who spend life in prison be able to be productive members of society while isolated from all but their families.

Assume that everything I say here applies to the Canadian penal system as to avoid RA RA anti-Canada posts.

The penal system right now is somewhere between correcting offenders and punishing them. We don't want claim that all we are doing is rotting people in prison and treating them like shit but at the same time we aren't really doing anything to help them.

The penal system needs to decide whether they want to be a correctional facility or a pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

Personally, I would rather see an effort made for the 1st, but I'm just a crazy liberal.

[Lyion]

Our maximum security prisons are complete and utter shit. We lock people up for extended durations often times over ridiculous charges. Second possession of a narcotic and Mr X ends up doing twenty years in prison. The punishment does not fit the crime at all. Worse, when he gets out he's fucked doubly because he can't get a decent job.

The penal system does not need to decide jack or shit. The populace needs to push initiatives that allow our prison systems to be morphed into a 'tiered' system that is more fair and built for rehabilitation versus destroying a person forever.

We need to let nonviolent offenders do work release and do punishments more inline with their crimes. We need major violent offenders to do their hard time in military style camps with less freedoms, but more protection and education.

Right now prisons are just the tools of special interests groups who want the best of both worlds at no cost. It's not acceptable.

[kaharthemad]

Guess when it happens to you or your family members, you see things differntly.

It has. I would go into the things my uncle did for the all mighty china white but if I went into too much detail it would make Quentin Tarrintino(sp?) puke. Do I think he served his time? nope. Even though I respect the man he has become I still believe he did not do his time. How close was I? He was my Godfather and I respected him greatly. His actions after coming out of prison are to be admired but there are times I think it would have served the public more had he stayed behind those bars.

[Eziekial]

What's wrong with doing both? The military boot camp does this to a degree. You have no rights (well, you do but it's not broadcast over the loadspeaker) and it's effective indoctrination and training. Some of the thugs that get locked up need 4-5 years of good, honest ass kicking.

[Zanathar]

Right now prisons are just the tools of special interests groups who want the best of both worlds at no cost. It's not acceptable.

This is not true.

The current affairs of prison is because there is a significant lack of money in the current system to provide the level of service that you think they require.

In the current state, what is the average cost, per inmate? Isn't like close to 50k or more in most states? This is for the current substandard level of "care, whatever, etc" that they are currently receiving. To do what you want, we need to spend close to 100k or more (at the bare minimum) per inmate.

No one will pay for that. End of story. The current system, is the best we will get. When it comes to a time when society can afford to rehabilitate their populace and not punish offenders, these prisons will most likely not be necessary.