Prison for murder

[Eziekial]

Damn, Lyion beat me to the punch.

[Zanchief]

Then have them work off some of their cost instead.

[The Kizzy]

He didn't pull the trigger. It takes a different type of person to do that. I don't think her brother is/was a killer.

The sad thing is after 10 years in prison he'll probably end up a killer.

Our penal system is terrible. It is complete ass and should be redone in a manner to make criminals who spend life in prison be able to be productive members of society while isolated from all but their families.

I doubt he will end up a killer. He's clean now, and I know it sounds cliche, but he truly has repented for what he has done, he has turned Christian, and does his best to stay out of trouble. The fact that he is nicknamed "The Tree" doesn't hurt either. He's 6'6" used to weigh300+ hes down to almost 200 now.

[Eziekial]

I'm all for this. Our prisoners should be creating wealth for our society not consuming it. Although, one could argue that if you privatize prisons, an insidious lobby would develop.

[Zanchief]

The only problem I could see would be if the wages were so low that they would hinder low-income employment.

[Eziekial]

You could get a lobby to "push" higher sentencing guidelines, mandatory time requirements, lower tolerances for violations.. that kinda thing. Right now every American breaks laws they don't even know exist but we really don't go after them. It's like when you get pulled over for speeding and the cop writes tickets for a cracked windshield, headlight and expired inspection sticker kinda thing.

[Martrae]

Actually, a lot of prisons are privately owned and rented by states.

There was an episode of CSI that showed prisoners manning the phones for mail order catalog companies. Gotta wonder how true that was.

[Zanchief]

Actually, a lot of prisons are privately owned and rented by states.

There was an episode of CSI that showed prisoners manning the phones for mail order catalog companies. Gotta wonder how true that was.

Hmmm that opens up some gray areas. Prisoners forfeit certain rights but if someone is making a buck off of them do they still get all benefits granted to workers? If they aren't, it seems the company is getting a sweet deal, forcing em to work under below average working conditions.

[Zanathar]

In maryland, there is a law that has been on the books since 1628 that requires all persons who are traveling from a distance greater than 20 miles from their home shall have in their possession a rifle.

This law, while it has never been removed is still there but has never been enforced. There are tons of laws that are passed that are never enforced, as there are tons of laws on the books that are unenforceable by their very nature.

If allow prisoners to earn money, where do they earn the money? Do they take jobs away from law abiding citizens, in fields of road construction, sewer work, etc? If we do that, then there is no way that private citizens can compete with prisoners for labor costs, which creates an unfair advantage (Think shawshank redemption) for the prison. Is this fair to people who are obeying the law and running a business?

[Martrae]

Also, gotta love that you're giving out personal information including credit cards and bank info to criminals, if true.

[Lyion]

The current affairs of prison is because there is a significant lack of money in the current system to provide the level of service that you think they require.

In the current state, what is the average cost, per inmate? Isn't like close to 50k or more in most states? This is for the current substandard level of "care, whatever, etc" that they are currently receiving. To do what you want, we need to spend close to 100k or more (at the bare minimum) per inmate.
.

We need to quit locking up nonviolent criminals in maximum security prisons for extended durations. That alone would put the prison systems in most states out of the red.

That and revoke the three strikes and you are out rules that put petty offenders in heavy prisons for long durations.

We need to redo the entire criminal justice systems. Remove the billions we waste on the drug war, and focus that cash where it is needed. On fighting violent crime and redoing the justice system to enable more work release programs and punishments that fit the crime. We need to lose the mentality of pushing everyone en masse into the drive thru pound me in the ass solution that is complete ass.

[Zanathar]

We need to redo the entire criminal justice systems. Remove the billions we waste on the drug war, and focus that cash where it is needed. On fighting violent crime and redoing the justice system to enable more work release programs and punishments that fit the crime. We need to lose the mentality of pushing everyone en masse into the drive thru pound me in the ass solution that is complete ass.

Over 80% of the billions we waste on the drug war goes to pay overtime costs or for additional police units in heavily crime ridden areas. The war on drugs is not necessarily sending choppers into Columbia to blow up drug labs there, most of the 'war on drugs' is waged right here on our streets in every day crime. At this stage, reducing the amount of money that we are "wasting" will ensure increased crime in those areas that are prone to it, in the form of reduced personnel that perform essential functions of police work: Processing, Filing, DNA profiling, etc. Not including the loss of actual patrolmen and women which would result in an increase of crime.

The entire prison system gave up on rehabilitation in the 1970s after it was determined that programs for rehabilitation simply did not work and in fact had the added result of educating violent criminals into being even more violent criminals with degrees (Source: FBI). The research has been done Lyion, your ideas can not work.

[veeneedefeesh]

As far as I'm concerned, murder should equal death, period. No extenuatiing circumstances, no plea bargin, possibly an (singular) appeal, but if a jury is convinced "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that you are guilty of taking another persons life in malice then you are done. I don't care who you are, how much money you have, or what. You pull the trigger you die. Crime of passion=death. If you are so out of control that you don't realize "Hey this guy might die if I continue to pound his head into the pavement", then you are a mad dog and should be put down like any other rabid animal. Accessory to murder should be 25+ years. Some would say, "but what about those people that are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was jsut driving the getaway car". Well to that I respond, Life is a bitch aint it? Sometimes bad things just happen especially when you do stupid shit. No amount of whining and pleading is going to change that. The next guy may have enough sense to look around and say "Hey this looks like a bad place, maybe I better not do this"

Prison shold be worse than hell. Criminals forfiet their rights when they committed the crime. If you don't want to go to prison then don't do the crime. I also think that they should earn their keep, most of us certainly have to and we are for the most part law-abiding citizens. Put them to work making small rocks out of big ones, make them do labor intensive jobs and don't spare the whip. As it stands now, many criminals become acclimated to prison life and form their own society within the walls. Three hots and a cot is waaaayyyy too good for them. Take them out of the gene pool and maybe in a few generations there won't be any left. As far as people claiming that prison "rehabilitated them" or that they "found God" in prison, personally I think we should consider sending them to meet Him personally.

Prison is not now, nor ever will be about rehabilitation. It is about removing the problem from the public to prevent the offenders from repeating their actions upon other innocents. The sooner we acknowledge this the better off we will be.

The flip side of this is I believe we have WAAAYYYY too many criminal laws. Remove the bullshit laws from the books, stiffen the penalties for whats left, be consistant (OJ should have fried) and let the punishment fit the crime. Embezzle some money from your company? well then buddy you just earned yourself 10 years of endentured servitude. Steal an old ladies purse, and you can give her half of your paycheck for the next six months, if you don't have a paycheck then you can be assigned to a work gang and give her half of that. Rape/Molestation=death Lorena Bobbit style.

I know someone who lived in Saudi for a while, and while I don't personally agree with how those folks live, I must admit that they seem to have gotten their penal system working. From what I hear no one there worries about crime that much because the stiffness of the penalties. People know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if they steal they loose a hand, if they rape they die, if they murder they die. They have public executions where anyone can go to see what happens if you break the rules, and this deters people from crime. That is about the best anyone can expect from a penal system.

[Tossica]

As far as I'm concerned, murder should equal death, period. No extenuatiing circumstances, no plea bargin, possibly an (singular) appeal, but if a jury is convinced "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that you are guilty of taking another persons life in malice then you are done. I don't care who you are, how much money you have, or what. You pull the trigger you die. Crime of passion=death. If you are so out of control that you don't realize "Hey this guy might die if I continue to pound his head into the pavement", then you are a mad dog and should be put down like any other rabid animal. Accessory to murder should be 25+ years. Some would say, "but what about those people that are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was jsut driving the getaway car". Well to that I respond, Life is a bitch aint it? Sometimes bad things just happen especially when you do stupid shit. No amount of whining and pleading is going to change that. The next guy may have enough sense to look around and say "Hey this looks like a bad place, maybe I better not do this"

Read my post if you haven't. I am torn between "Wow, one of my friends is a murderer" and "Wow, one of my friends took one for the team and took some fucking punks out in the process". He did not mean to kill them but he did mean to put some bullets in them.

[veeneedefeesh]

Some would say, "but what about those people that are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was just driving the getaway car". Well to that I respond, Life is a bitch aint it? Sometimes bad things just happen especially when you do stupid shit.

He may have thought he was "Taking one for the team", but two dumbasses have assumed room temperature because he made an assumption based on incomplete knowledge and went with it. However, had your friend NOT killed those guys I think society would be better served if they spent the next 30 or so years chained behind a tractor and picking up trash on the highways or maybe setting dynamite charges in a coal mine.

If they were actively, physically threatening him (and it sounds like they were), and there was a risk of serious bodily harm or death to himself then it was self defense, and as such is not murder and this doesn't apply. Sorry about your friend, but he was just as much of a dumbass for shooting those guys as they were for trying to harrass/rob/hurt you and your friends. Had he a.)verified his assumption and found that you were all safe, or b.) gotten the hell away from the "bad people" (which is what the rest of you had sense enough to do) he wouldnt be where he is now.

Stupidity is the only universal crime. Break that one and you are pretty much screwed.

[veeneedefeesh]

Oh, and if he pulled the trigger then he meant for them to die. You dont use a handgun to chastise someone for poor behavior.

If you pull a gun then you had better damned well be prepared to put something in the ground with it. Part of the problem with gangbangers today is that they think that guns are toys and it is glamorous to wave one around or hang out of a car window and spray down a street corner. This is probably the entertainment industry's fault, but that is a completely different topic. Kizzy's brother thought it would be ok to wave a gun around and intimidate someone into giving up the dough, look where it got him and the poor bastard that he was trying to intimidate.

Again I say, Stupidity is the only universal crime.

[Langston]

Your friend got sentenced for picking up a gun, sneaking around the outside of the house, and shooting two men. He knowingly and willingly shot them - meaning to kill them or not isn't at issue - you have to presume that getting hit by a bullet or three isn't a GOOD thing for your health.

I have no sympathy for your friend. I have sympathy that you found yourself in that situation with the two thugs - but your friend acted very unwisely and is now paying for it duly.

[Arlos]

The "Three Strikes" type of laws are one reason why prison populations have so vastly swelled, and why despite vast sums being spent on the prison system, it gets spread more and more thinly across the entire system. I mean, how fair is it to have, say, a guy who's 55 years old, who when he was 20 did a couple armed robberies, served 5 years, and has no record for 30 years, before getting picked up for having over an ounce of weed. That's a felony, and boom, it's his 3rd strike. How is it fair to send this guy to prison for the rest of his life? Hell, besides it being unfair to him, how is it fair to the taxpayers, who are going to have to pay for all of his health care?

-Arlos

[lemming]

Õî÷ó èììèãðèðîâàòü â Åâðîïó, íàøëà ñàéò http://www.cernis.cz è çàèíòåðåñîâàëàñü. À Âû ÷òî äóìàåòå ïî ýòîìó ïîâîäó?

[Harrison]

Where the fuck do these fools come from?

[Lyion]

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... rnis.cz%2F