The Draft

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:45 pm

What is your view on the draft? Are you for or against its existence?

Do you think a draft is coming, or could be coming in the near future?

Should women be drafted?

Are you worried about it?

EDIT: Good topic dangerpaul:
What are your views on a mandatory term of military service?

Post by **DangerPaul** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:46 pm

I think mandatory service is a better idea. Since I am as old as I am, I am probably exempt from it all, so I have no fears of a draft or required time in the military. However, with the direction today's kids are taking in life, I would say 70% need their heads kicked in.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:53 pm

Yamori wrote:What is your view on the draft? Are you for or against its existence?

I think its necessary solely in times of world crisis. We are not in such a time.

Yamori wrote:Do you think a draft is coming, or could be coming in the near future?

No, it'd be political suicide. It is not coming in the foreseeable future.

Yamori wrote:Should women be drafted?

No, I am against women in combat units.

Yamori wrote:Are you worried about it?

I did 6 years in the military. I am also old.

Yamori wrote:What are your views on a mandatory term of military service?

I'm opposed to it.

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:54 pm

As for my own thoughts, I'm against the draft. I think it is blatantly unconstitutional and a violation of basic human rights (involuntary servitude). Not to mention, the draft makes for a pretty crappy batch of troops that aren't particularly effective.

The draft is yet another bastardly program created by the nefarious FDR. Curse he. >:o

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a draft, particularly if we get entangled into yet another big foreign problem (ie: north korea, iran, ect), but I'm not worried about it myself since I'm pretty sure I would be exempt for reasons I won't get into here. :P

I don't think women should be drafted, because I don't think men should be drafted either. ^_^

I'm against mandatory military (or even mandatory civilian service) for the same reasons I'm against the draft: It's involuntary servitude, and the government has no right dictating what people do with their time.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:57 pm

Yamori's afraid of getting drafted :teehee:

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:58 pm

Well, yeah.

War is scary yo! :eyecrazy:

Post by **DangerPaul** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:00 pm

Most younger people are. But look at today's kids, they have no morals, standards or work ethic. They are following today's mid-20s "adults" who think because you want it, you get it. They take no responsibility for their own actions and have no loyalty to anything. Kids today are fucking spoiled and I think getting their ass chewed out by a pissed off drill sargeant on his rag would be good for most of them.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:00 pm

You brought this up a year ago, Yam. And then a year before that as well. Chill out dude. Odds of you getting drafted by this administration are slim to none.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:01 pm

DangerPaul wrote:Most younger people are. But look at today's kids, they have no morals, standards or work ethic. They are following today's mid-20s "adults" who think because you want it, you get it. They take no responsibility for their own actions and have no loyalty to anything. Kids today are fucking spoiled and I think getting their ass chewed out by a pissed off drill sargeant on his rag would be good for most of them.

I agree.

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:13 pm

Oh. I forget about such things, I have a bad memory. :ugh:

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:14 pm

The rant about the youth brings up an interesting question though:

Is it better to have no morals, or have the wrong morals?

Is it better to be loyal to nothing, or to be loyal to the wrong thing?

:o

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:26 pm

Interesting points, Yamori.

Apathy is the death of society.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:53 pm

Yamori wrote:The rant about the youth brings up an interesting question though:

Is it better to have no morals, or have the wrong morals?

Is it better to be loyal to nothing, or to be loyal to the wrong thing?

:o

Why are those the only choices?

Eziekial · Post by **Eziekial** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:22 am

I'm against the draft. Reagan had a great line about military service and who owns the youth of a country but I'm too lazy to google it.

We will not have a draft, it's probably the worst method of fielding an army.

Women would not be drafted and I am against them being assigned to combat units.

Not worried about a draft

Against mandatory service. I agree 100% with Paul about today's youth, however throwing them into service does not address the root of the problem, which I believe to be piss poor parenting.

Morals are very important. What is a "wrong" moral?

Gypsiyee · Post by **Gypsiyee** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:28 am

I'm against a mandatory draft for the same reasons a few have said - I believe it to be the worst way to acquire an effective force.

Mandatory training in case of emergencies, on the other hand.. I'd be ok with that. There could come a time where there's no choice - it isn't likely, but it's possible. I agree that with each generation people get lazier and lazier, and that's something I think even training could fix. Don't need to throw people into war to get them straight, the training alone is enough to wear on people.

Post by **DangerPaul** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:29 am

Think of it as a trickle down affect Zeek. Today's kids go into mandatory service, they learn about respect, loyalty and hard work, then as they age, they have kids and teach them.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:49 am

Or they grow disdainful of the government etc. and pass that down to their children...?

I am against a draft right now. If there were to be another World War etc. I would be for it 100%. This coming from someone who at the last second decided not to swear into the army so my opinion is slightly sided with mandatory military service.

I do not think women should be allowed anywhere near combat personally. It causes problems.

Post by **DangerPaul** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:50 am

You are one of the people I refer to when I talk about today's kids, I am not turning this into a flamefest, so we can discuss in another thread if you like.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:53 am

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:55 am

thread is in EE

runamonk · Post by **runamonk** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:17 am

Mandatory military service is something that could be good. It would be good for everyone to serve four years and then decide if it's for them or move onto college after that.

Alot of kids today are total fuck ups and in turn grow into even larger fuck ups.

I'm probably too old and don't have any specialized skills (not a doc or anything) so a draft isn't an issue for me. Although if asked I would gladly serve a term for our country.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:23 am

I'm not against mandatory military time either

Too many people assume that being part of a free nation now is just coasting, eating pop tarts, and playing video games with never having to contribute to that nation (other than the inevitable taxes)

I'd much rather that everyone had to spend some time in military service

Post by **Mop** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:25 am

I personaly am against the draft, I don't like the idea of it being random..what I am in favor for thoug his this:

2 years active service for every male citizen (that is reasonably able to) after they graduate highschool. Give them one year of basic military training, one year of specialized field work - count it as college credits, those that want to go to college afterwards can go, on the goverments dime for state schools, and % paid for more private schools. I think this would give everyone job skills to last them in the real world. I think it would honestly help a few of the major problems with todays 20 somethings.

Post by **Martrae** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:27 am

Would also help with the welfare rate.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:17 am

Yamori wrote:As for my own thoughts, I'm against the draft. I think it is blatantly unconstitutional and a violation of basic human rights (involuntary servitude). Not to mention, the draft makes for a pretty crappy batch of troops that aren't particularly effective.

The draft is constitutional, and hardly a violation of human rights. It's the other side of that whole "social contract" thing. Proving that drafted military service is "involuntary servitude" would be difficult at best.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a draft, particularly if we get entangled into yet another big foreign problem (ie: north korea, iran, ect), but I'm not worried about it myself since I'm pretty sure I would be exempt for reasons I won't get into here. :P

Think we're going to war with China soon? That would be the only compelling reason to have a draft at this point. North Korea's unlikely to stir up any serious trouble as they have the 800 pound gorilla with a history of mutual antagonism in their own backyard. The Chinese certaintly aren't thrilled by the idea of a belligerent warlord with nuclear weapons on their border. Iran's military isn't capable to going head-to-head with U.S. forces as it is, which would obivate the need for drafted troops, save as garrison forces, and using draftees to garrison unpacified areas is a suboptimal solution at best.

I'm against mandatory military (or even mandatory civilian service) for the same reasons I'm against the draft: It's involuntary servitude, and the government has no right dictating what people do with their time.

That's not government, that's anarchy. The government has every right to compel citizens to serve when it's necessary to maintain the nation. Citizenship is more than simply sucking at the teat of governmental largesse. Sometimes you have to support the system with your own sweat and in some cases, blood. An ideal system would require service (either military or civilian) as a prerequisite for benefits of citizenship, but asking your average American to actually contribute to the national welfare is like squeezing blood out of a turnip.

I don't think we'll see a draft, simply because the last thing the military wants or needs is a bunch of lazy, inept civilians being dumped into the current ranks of professionals. There's also the minor issue with services trying to cut down the number of troops under arms, not bloat their ranks with incompetent conscripts.

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