Women in uniform

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Women in uniform

Postby Jimmy Durante » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:03 am

How many people have to die before the country stops humoring feminists? Last week, a defendant in a rape case, Brian Nichols, wrested a gun from a female deputy in an Atlanta courthouse and went on a murderous rampage. Liberals have proffered every possible explanation for this breakdown in security except the giant elephant in the room -- who undoubtedly has an eating disorder and would appreciate a little support vis-a-vis her negative body image.

The New York Times said the problem was not enough government spending on courthouse security ("Budgets Can Affect Safety Inside Many Courthouses"). Yes, it was tax-cuts-for-the-rich that somehow enabled a 200-pound former linebacker to take a gun from a 5-foot-tall grandmother.

Atlanta court officials dispensed with any spending issues the next time Nichols entered the courtroom when he was escorted by 17 guards and two police helicopters. He looked like P. Diddy showing up for a casual dinner party.

I think I have an idea that would save money and lives: Have large men escort violent criminals. Admittedly, this approach would risk another wave of nausea and vomiting by female professors at Harvard. But there are also advantages to not pretending women are as strong as men, such as fewer dead people. Even a female math professor at Harvard should be able to run the numbers on this one.

Of course, it's suspiciously difficult to find any hard data about the performance of female cops. Not as hard as finding the study showing New Jersey state troopers aren't racist, but still pretty hard to find.

Mostly what you find on Lexis-Nexis are news stories quoting police chiefs who have been browbeaten into submission, all uttering the identical mantra after every public safety disaster involving a girl cop. It seems that female officers compensate for a lack of strength with "other" abilities, such as cooperation, empathy and intuition.

There are lots of passing references to "studies" of uncertain provenance, but which always sound uncannily like a press release from the Feminist Majority Foundation. (Or maybe it was The Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, which recently released a study claiming that despite Memogate, "Fahrenheit 911," the Richard Clarke show and the jihad against the Swift Boat Veterans, the press is being soft on Bush.)

The anonymous "studies" about female officers invariably demonstrate that women make excellent cops -- even better cops than men! One such study cited an episode of "She's the Sheriff," starring Suzanne Somers.

A 1993 news article in the Los Angeles Times, for example, referred to a "study" -- cited by an ACLU attorney -- allegedly proving that "female officers are more effective at making arrests without employing force because they are better at de-escalating confrontations with suspects." No, you can't see the study or have the name of the organization that performed it, and why would you ask?

There are roughly 118 million men in this country who would take exception to that notion. I wonder if women officers "de-escalate" by mentioning how much more money their last suspect made.

These aren't unascertainable facts, like Pinch Sulzberger's SAT scores. The U.S. Department of Justice (news - web sites) regularly performs comprehensive surveys of state and local law enforcement agencies, collected in volumes called "Law Enforcement Management and Administrative Statistics."

The inestimable economist John Lott has looked at the actual data. (And I'll give you the citation! John R. Lott Jr., "Does a Helping Hand Put Others at Risk? Affirmative Action, Police Departments and Crime," Economic Inquiry, April 1, 2000.)

It turns out that, far from "de-escalating force" through their superior listening skills, female law enforcement officers vastly are more likely to shoot civilians than their male counterparts. (Especially when perps won't reveal where they bought a particularly darling pair of shoes.)

Unable to use intermediate force, like a bop on the nose, female officers quickly go to fatal force. According to Lott's analysis, each 1 percent increase in the number of white female officers in a police force increases the number of shootings of civilians by 2.7 percent.

Adding males to a police force decreases the number of civilians accidentally shot by police. Adding black males decreases civilian shootings by police even more. By contrast, adding white female officers increases accidental shootings. (And for my Handgun Control Inc. readers: Private citizens are much less likely to accidentally shoot someone than are the police, presumably because they do not have to approach the suspect and make an arrest.)

In addition to accidentally shooting people, female law enforcement officers are also more likely to be assaulted than male officers -- as the whole country saw in Atlanta last week. Lott says: "Increasing the number of female officers by 1 percentage point appears to increase the number of assaults on police by 15 percent to 19 percent."

In addition to the obvious explanations for why female cops are more likely to be assaulted and to accidentally shoot people -- such as that our society encourages girls to play with dolls -- there is also the fact that women are smaller and weaker than men.

In a study of public safety officers -- not even the general population -- female officers were found to have 32 percent to 56 percent less upper body strength and 18 percent to 45 percent less lower body strength than male officers -- although their outfits were 43 percent more coordinated. (Here's the cite! Frank J. Landy, "Alternatives to Chronological Age in Determining Standards of Suitability for Public Safety Jobs," Technical Report, Vol. 1, Jan. 31, 1992.)

Another study I've devised involves asking a woman to open a jar of pickles.

There is also the telling fact that feminists demand that strength tests be watered down so that women can pass them. Feminists simultaneously demand that no one suggest women are not as strong as men and then turn around and demand that all the strength tests be changed. It's one thing to waste everyone's time by allowing women to try out for police and fire departments under the same tests given to men. It's quite another to demand that the tests be brawned-down so no one ever has to tell female Harvard professors that women aren't as strong as men.

Acknowledging reality wouldn't be all bad for women. For one thing, they won't have to confront violent felons on methamphetamine. So that's good. Also, while a sane world would not employ 5-foot-tall grandmothers as law enforcement officers, a sane world would also not give full body-cavity searches to 5-foot-tall grandmothers at airports.


Synopsis: Big, strong men should be given preference in potentially violent situations over petite mommies.

Partisan bashing aside, what Ms. Coulter is suggesting is common sense. I'd have to say that the correlation between the increase in the number of female officers and the number of shootings is quite sobering.
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Postby Harrison » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:11 am

No shit.

Anyone with common sense would tell you all of that.
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Postby Martrae » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:25 am

Wrong thing with that article is the deputy wasn't even armed. He knocked her out and stole her key to her gun locker.

I want to know WTF were they thinking to have someone like him, who the day before had been caught with homemade knives in his shoes, was being escorted by a grandma with no weapon?
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Postby Adivina » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:01 am

Really now, I would hate to think of my tiny ass 110 pound body trucking around with 200 pounds (yeah I am just throwing out a number on that one, but I am sure their equipment is heavy) of equipment.

I can just see it now. "HOLY SHIT LOOK AT TIFFANY FLYING BACKWARDS FROM THE RECOIL" (SHOOOOOM) or "Can someone go pull Tiffany out of the mud again? She sank because of her pack and can't get out.... its the fifth time today"

Fuck that, I will stay home and be a good woman. Put me in the kitchen let me cook you a meal, clean your house, and give you a good fuck.... screw women's liberation movements.
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Postby Azlana » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:01 am

Some of the best snipers in the world have been female - of course not American, because we're a sexist nation. Just sayin'.
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Postby Adivina » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:04 am

Sniping is different. I could see myself being able to do that sucessfully, but trucking around in the front lines would just put more people in danger than it would help in my case.
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Postby shiraz » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:08 am

I hate Ann Coulter, and the said vomiting Harvard professor was actually from MIT...
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Postby Lyion » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:10 am

Azlana wrote:Some of the best snipers in the world have been female - of course not American, because we're a sexist nation. Just sayin'.


Some of our best fighter pilots are women, too.

That doesnt mean those women should be responsible for handling things above their capabilities.

We base things on 'equality' falsely. There are things women do better than men. There are things men do better than women.

Based on being in actual combat, I will always lobby against women serving any role in it.
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Postby Azlana » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:10 am

This is the umpteenth time this topic has been brought up - and it would be irritating except that a couple people on an internet message board who don't like women in the military are hardly going to change the fact that there are more women in uniform than ever before...and it's heading more in that direction as time goes on.
Also, when I say sniper, I don't mean hanging out on top of a building. I mean actually being out in the field for weeks at a time - THOSE are the ones that I was talking about that have been some of the best in the world, and women. I have one person in particular I'm thinking of, though I cannot remember her name for the life of me, but I want to say she was Russian? She was badass whatever she was.
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Postby Lyion » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:15 am

There are exceptions to every rule.

If women want to do the same roles as men, they should go through the same training and not have secondary easier standards that allow them to be a danger to those around them because they do not have the abilities to perform that are required in certain fields.

They can't. Its bullshit and our military is fucked by the women in it.
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Postby Azlana » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:16 am

I get what you're saying Lyion, but I think that same concept could be applied to men as well. There's always these tiny little pissant guys in the infantry...how are they any different than a woman carrying around a pack....if strength is the issue?
People are quick to jump on the "it was because she was a woman" excuse if something goes wrong, but if a man dies in combat he was just serving his country so on and so forth. Example: on the CNN casualty site it shows the pictures of the fallen next to date/what happened etc. Now, not saying this wasn't tragic but one of the more recent deaths on there was a guy who shot HIMSELF in the head during a training excercise. I reallly think that if that had been a woman...people would be blaming it on that - "See, Billybob? That's what happens when they let them there wenches near a shotgun."
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Postby Azlana » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:17 am

That's stupid Lyion, our military has tons of women in it and the U.S. has the strongest military in the world - so what are you talking about?
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Postby xaoshaen » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:24 am

Az, were you thinking of Lyudmila Pavlichenko?

Personally, I have no problem with women serving in the military. In some fields, they're better suited for service than males, on average (better resistance to g-forces for example). I do think there should be a single standard though: if it's important that a male be able to do 60 pushups in a minute as a prerequisite for service, then a female should be held to the same standard. The mission, not the personnel, should determine that standard.
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Postby Lyion » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:28 am

We have the most expensive military in the world. We also routinely get our ass handed to us flying combat training missions against the Israeli's and we get beat in the field often by several other military forces in training.

Go to sea with a ship full of women, and notice how many have to be flown home pregnant. Check out an Army training schedule and see the different standards for men and women. Watch how many women fail out or get discharged after our military spends tens of thousands training them for piddly ass shit. It's 10 times higher than guys.

At the end, the biggest problem with women in the military is the nature of our culture is one of protecting women and thus they become a detriment in combat.

Our military is a bloated beast due to this desire of equality and the need to try and be 'fair'. War is not a fair enterprise women in our military has hurt it and even moreso hurt the US Taxpayer.
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Postby Harrison » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:30 am

That scrawny guy you used as an example had to pass a higher standard of PT than the pussified woman version.

Kind of throws that propaganda out the window now doesn't it?
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Postby The Kizzy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:31 am

Has G.I. Jane not taught you anything?
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Postby Harrison » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:33 am

Lyion wrote:At the end, the biggest problem with women in the military is the nature of our culture is one of protecting women and thus they become a detriment in combat.


That is the main problem. I'm not sexist, I'm dumb enough to be that dumbass who died trying to protect the woman in my unit if it came down to it even if it was hopeless or irrational. That's how I am.

When I was in the recruitment process and there were 6 women in the "orientation" with me...that's what made me decide "fuck that". (one being my ex)
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Postby xaoshaen » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:37 am

Harrison wrote:That is the main problem. I'm not sexist, I'm dumb enough to be that dumbass who died trying to protect the woman in my unit if it came down to it even if it was hopeless or irrational. That's how I am.

When I was in the recruitment process and there were 6 women in the "orientation" with me...that's what made me decide "fuck that". (one being my ex)


And that alone may be sufficient justification for women serving in the armed forces.
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Postby The Kizzy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:41 am

Fin, so if you had been in for a while, and you had made a best friend, yoiu wouldn't try to save his life as well?
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Postby Lyion » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:41 am

They did a study when I was in the Navy that was devastatingly accurate about the problems that happen with men and women at sea together. Pregnancy and added duty burden were bad, but not the worst.

The biggest potential problem occured in the event of a sea to sea attack when the hull was penetrated. During an attack you need to lock down area's of a ship that have other crewmembers there. It is a very difficult thing but something we're trained to do.

Now, the problem is what if the mother of your children is in the area you need to lock down. What if she is pregnant with your child? These things cause huge risks and enable a precarious situation to be even more difficult than it already is.

Sure, women can perform, but the problems associated with them being in combat units greatly exceeds the benefits. Put em all in the Air Force, and I'm fine.
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Postby Harrison » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:47 am

Kizzy wrote:Fin, so if you had been in for a while, and you had made a best friend, yoiu wouldn't try to save his life as well?


Yes, but it is 100% different.

Lyion just posted a different scenario that would endanger hundreds over 1.
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Postby xaoshaen » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:51 am

Sure, women can perform, but the problems associated with them being in combat units greatly exceeds the benefits. Put em all in the Air Force, and I'm fine.


Yeah, 'cause the Navy is all gung ho, boots on the ground and shit. :ugh: Fact is, in every service but the Marines, you have more people devoted to supporting the theater of ops than to pulling triggers. Even the Marines have a relatively heavy infrastructure compared to military forces of years past, but they're positively lean compared to the other three combat arms.
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Postby The Kizzy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:52 am

my post disappeared
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Postby Azlana » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:54 am

Well honestly this is kind of a stupid converstation - I guess those of you with a problem with women in the military should write your congressman, and in the meantime sorry about your bad luck. :dunno:

p.s. I *love* the arguement about how women shouldn't be allowed in combat situations because the men would try to save them. What??? Wouldn't that be male weakness? I really don't think that women that would put themselves in that position are looking for chivalry. Give me a break, that's so lame.
Last edited by Azlana on Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Kizzy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:54 am

LYION, find my post
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