Women in uniform

[Captain Insano]

Anyone have anything against women fighter pilots? From everything I've read, they're much better physiologically suited for it, higher G-tolerance, etc. None of Lyion's Navy issues, no worries about some guy being overly chivalrous next to her, since she's in a single-seat plane, etc. While I can definitely see some issues with women in an infantry role, I've yet to hear a good reason to keep them from being pilots.

-Arlos

Did you serve in the military? Women have a total lack of logic, focus, mental fortitude and discipline compared to their male counterparts. What you don't read in the news is how often our wonderous airforce gets their shit handed to them by Israeli and Russian pilots.


The whole G-Force arguement is just another stupid factoid which feminists use to justify the existance of women in combat roles/pilot roles.

[Captain Insano]

I for one actually wanted to have job skills that I could use later on in life, nice dorms (yeah dorms), and decent food.

Oh yah... I'm sure all that shit is going to keep you alive when the shit hits the fan huh?

That would really suck if you or your fellow airmen got in harms way and the the closest thing to real training and discipline you had was cushy dorm rooms and tons of food and job skills... rofl.

You mentality of: "I, I, I, me, me, me" is another perfect example of the typical military women's attitude and is the exact opposite of how you should be acting.

As a former and highly successful, capable Marine, you utterly disgust me. You didn't deserve the right to wear an American military uniform.

[Captain Insano]

I think that if a woman can prove herself physically, mentally, and emotionally, then there should be no reason why she shouldn't be able to do the same jobs the men are doing.

Because her mere presence is a disruption to training and discipline. Period.

Oh.


and GI Jane?

Had they not put the fucking little stepping stool by the wall a 10 year old boy could have scaled on his own, that rumpwaste of a movie would have been over in 10 minutes.

[Azlana]

Ralf, seriously what in the fuck are you talking about? Every response you've written with a quote of mine is written like I said somewhere that _I_ wanted to be on the front lines somewhere, when in fact, as I said eaaarlier, the reason I went with the Air Force is because it's cushier and I didn't want to do all that Marine bullshit. I'm married to a marine, and I can't figure out for the life of me why anyone would do that unless it was a childhood thing that they always wanted to do, or family tradition. Anyone who joins the military on a whim and goes to the Marines is probably hating their life right now. That's just *my* opinion. Sorry, but if your attitude here on these boards reflects anything about your true personality, then you're the one that doesn't deserve to have ever worn a U.S. military uniform because you're a fucking sexist, egotistical, self-absorbed dickhead, but then again that's perfect for the Marines, right? Way to go devildog....

[Diekan]

Azlana, we've always gotten along alright - even back in EQ - but you really have to think for a moment about the comments being made by ALL the male ex-servicemen here. Ralph's a little... well Ralph... but the fact remains - I have been in a combat unit - Lyion has been in a *combat unit* - Ralph has been in a combat unit - and we ALL three agree on the same point. Women simply do not belong in combat units.

Now, as for being cops and firefighters... well, to be perfectly honest with you - I don't have much of an opinion there... as I don't know much about either occupation. However, I DO know about combat and it is not a place for women. It has nothing to do with being sexist - it has everything to do with being REALISTIC. Where I differ from Ralph is that I, personally, don't have a problem with women being in the military... I just don't think they should be allowed in combat units.

Believe me I am *pro* equality - and I think it's rediculous that women (even in this day and age) are still being paid less than men for the same work, but I will never change my views on women in combat.

[vonkaar]

I actually read the entire thread up to this point and my only comment is of disbelief. I seriously can't believe I'm seeing this type of discussion in this day and age. "Women in Uniform." Well, yeah. Cong 40 years ago. What's next, a thread on NT saying, "Niggers? At MY bus-stop???"

[Harrison]

Keep trying to tell yourself the sexes are equal and you might actually believe it someday.

[Adivina]

I do not think that it is weakness that makes men want to protect women. If you look at it in the simplist of manners, protecting the survival of females ensures the survival of the species. I'm not saying that when a man runs to save a woman that he is thinking "OH NO A POTENTIAL MATE GONE!", but on the most basic level that is about what it breaks down to.

[vonkaar]

Keep trying to tell yourself the sexes are equal and you might actually believe it someday.

Should I wait for Lyion to come back and post your opinion for you or are you going to continue posting one-line bullshits like that?

Lyion's "first" statement was the most correct - some roles favor one gender over the other. Cong. That doesn't mean the other gender should be excluded from a particular branch of service or even a particular job assignment simply due to spotty statistical fact.

[shiraz]

A lot of the women I know who joined the armed forces did so, in part, for tuition assistance. I'm not sure once you join how much choice you have about what position you serve? For those who are against women in combat, do you think they should be able to join the armed forces and choose administrative roles? Are you willing to provide an alternative way for them to get tuition assistance and the other benefits?

[Lyion]

Delving through Ralf's posts there is a lot of actual substance. Should people's lives be endangered for your 'moral' desire for equality in a war machine that should be more concerned about winning and saving lives?

Should we lower our standards so we can be allow women in more combat roles, Vonkaar? Most of us who have been in combat see the folly of this.

Well, it's not exactly spotty statistical facts that women cannot make it through BUDS, Recon Marine training, and require a different set of standards for many other combat profession.

Again, we aren't saying women should not be in the military. There are things women do better than men, and vice versa. However due to the nature of combat, the inability of the 'average' female recruit to come close to completing male requirements and the duty issues can you explain to me WHY women should be allowed at all in combat units?

You are equating this argument with a hiring session at Wal Mart. For those of us who've been in combat, we can assure you the training and requirements men go through are there for a reason, and the fact we ease women into these roles without the same standards, requirements, and an overall aura of public ignorance from non military people really makes our military that much less effective.

[shiraz]

When I was considering the air force academy, women could only be test pilots (no combat missions). I had always wanted to study aerodynamics in some way, be it as a pilot or as an aerodynamic engineer. When it came down to it, I didn't want to deal with constantly fighting to prove I belonged there. I took a tour of aerodynamic research division at Langley Air FIeld, and I swear that I was the only female in sight who wasn't a secretary. I might not have been the best pilot, but I know that I would have been one of the best aerodynamic engineers.

In the end, I am still doing aerodynamic research (funded through the DoD). Sometimes I regret that I didn't have the guts to just deal with potential harassment issues and go to a military academy. It would have been a great education for free.

[Adivina]

I don't believe this is a male vs. female issue btw. There are some females who are perfectly suited to fight in the frontlines, and there are some males who are just as unsuited as I am for the situation.

[Harrison]

Its funny reading what Harrison has to say. I am sure in a one on one combat situation that Ralf would have no problem taking me down, but I promise you that I would take Fin down. Maybe it's my training from the military, or the fact that I have never lost a fight, ever. I am sure that I could kick his ass mentally, phsyically, and emotionally.

[Spacewoman Spiff]

Its funny reading what Harrison has to say. I am sure in a one on one combat situation that Ralf would have no problem taking me down, but I promise you that I would take Fin down. Maybe it's my training from the military, or the fact that I have never lost a fight, ever. I am sure that I could kick his ass mentally, phsyically, and emotionally.

Whereas = "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and I'm a stupid cuntrag who was just owned, but I don't want to admit to being owned, so I'll just post this really irritating smiley because I have no other means of defense."

Good lord, I really wasn't all that off when I said in an earlier thread that more and more Lumpy = Mindia.

[vonkaar]

The original post was specifically talking about women in law enforcement. You would like to narrow the scope onto the Navy-SEAL front-line, hand-to-hand in-your-face bench-450lbs ex-Vietnam tunnel rat combateer... but this thread has encompassed a fuckload more than that. Airmen, Policemen, Naval personnel, Yeomen and even Wal-Mart employees.

You and I agree on the same fucking thing, you just don't see it. The hiring process SHOULD be the same. 100 push-ups for men, 100 push-ups for women. If she can hang, she moves on. If he can't, he's dumped. This is so fucking 1970s. Why are we even talking like this? I understand where Ralf is coming from... and totally agree on his favorable conditions argument - women shouldn't 'pass' on a 70 when men need a 90. However, a woman who consistently scores 100s *should* be just as capable as a man with comparable scores - if the testing is truly unbiased.

[Adivina]

I will freely admitt that I am quite sure Kizzy could kick my ass

[Captain Insano]

I don't believe this is a male vs. female issue btw. There are some females who are perfectly suited to fight in the frontlines, and there are some males who are just as unsuited as I am for the situation.

once again like almost all other females you don't fucking get it.... The presence of even one women anywhere near or involved with a combat unit, let alone the military goes way beyond their personal performance. The military is not about the individual, but platoon, the battalion, the division working as one cohesive unit. Womens mere presence has forced the military to lower standards, make ridiculous changes in the way they train which lower our overall ability to successfully wage war, force poor decisions in combat ala Jessica Lynch (which cost lives)...

These exceptions should not be made in careers where people's lives are regularly at risk, so some glorified femi-nazi can fulfill her blind arrogance in believing that she is as good as a man.

[Adivina]

I do not think that it is weakness that makes men want to protect women. If you look at it in the simplist of manners, protecting the survival of females ensures the survival of the species. I'm not saying that when a man runs to save a woman that he is thinking "OH NO A POTENTIAL MATE GONE!", but on the most basic level that is about what it breaks down to.

Notice that I wrote that before Ralf. I do agree that instinctually women make it harder for men to concentrate because of above statement, etc.

[Diekan]

Funny thing is, most of you who think you know what's best for the military probably can't even tell the difference between a private and a general - yet you have alllll kinds of opinions based on how our every day society functions. Guess what? You can't apply the same rules of the civilian model of society to the military - they are two completely different animals. But, I guess all it takes to be an expert of military affairs is watching re-runs of the A-team on Nick at Night.

[Narrock]

Its funny reading what Harrison has to say. I am sure in a one on one combat situation that Ralf would have no problem taking me down, but I promise you that I would take Fin down. Maybe it's my training from the military, or the fact that I have never lost a fight, ever. I am sure that I could kick his ass mentally, phsyically, and emotionally.

Whereas = "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and I'm a stupid cuntrag who was just owned, but I don't want to admit to being owned, so I'll just post this really irritating smiley because I have no other means of defense."

Good lord, I really wasn't all that off when I said in an earlier thread that more and more Lumpy = Mindia.

I told you... don't lump me in with lumpy.

[kaharthemad]

Sorry I have not weighed into this conversation before this but I have been under the weather and riding the porcelin bus was far more important. Lets start out with my opinions about some of the things brought up. To date the US Navy Submarine corp has 4 qualified women out of the 200 they have tried to get thru the qualification program. Not great odds.

The quals for a submarine are one of the most stressful in the service. not as much physically but emotionally and intellectually. The reason behind this is the process itself. Let me explain Each NUB(Non Useful Breather) gets a qual card when they arrive on baord. They have approx. 8 months to get the qual card signed off. that is about 300 signatures. Each siganture is based on a specific point on the boat and the operations of the point. You have to know every valve, damage control, and vent on that ship. This sets it up so that should one person die another person of any rate can take over for the dead person. zYou are not just qualing, you are still doing your duty rotations which are 6 hours on 12 hours off most times but can be stretched to 12 on 12 off depending on crew support. Once you are done you are set infront of a qual board and grilled for 3hours straight on any and all questions on your qual sheet. Usually there are 3 to 10 people sitting each board.


Should women be allowed on the Subs...nope. sorry no room. when you have 90 men sharing 2 showers (or water closets) it leaves limited area for a woman to take a shower without some smelly ass Machinists Mate walking in on her doing her neccessary. 6 toilets and 3 pissers...not good odds there since they almost all in the same place.

There was suggestion of making a all women crew submarine. This brings up a scary thought. It is a common known fact that after long times together womens' periods will coincide. Can you imagine a crew of 120 women all on PMS with keys to 18 underwater launched Ballistic missles all tipped with 12 100kiloton independently targeted MIRVs? Jesus I get the same chills listening to William Shatner sing.


As for safety of a submarine, Subs are on hazardous duty for a reason. We are put under alot of stress for long periods of time. during battle station manuevers everone is awake for the whole stint and I have been on board during a battle stations that lasted 28 hours straight. Subs are also Agressive attackers, with a sub it's primary goal is to kill. You cannot foreably project on a sub. only a surface ship can do that. The subamrines have neat little things that increase the danger of being on a sub. Such as nuclear weapons(however they keep you warm at night if you have to sleep next to one), and other such devices.

As for women in combat roles I say fine...but....they sign for the draft just like men, and they dont get a choice of whether they go into combat or not. You cant have it both ways. Either you are all in or not at all. None of this women's rights bullshit about having the 'right to choose' wether to go in as a combatant. If I dont get a right neither do you.

[kaharthemad]

and if this makes no sense sorry my brain is fried on cough syrup still

[kaharthemad]

as far as women in line of police duty. hey go for it. tciv and military life are 2 differentr worlds

[Darcler]

*frothing at the mouth*

WOMEN CAN DO WHAT MEN CAN!!!


sorry