After death

[Diabolik]

I believe in other people and works too, such as Martin Luther to name one.

Martin Luther on Jews:

I shall give you my sincere advice: First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them....

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies....

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ...

Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ...

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. ...

Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3:19).

But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, — servants, cattle, etc., if they had to serve and work for us — for it is reasonable to assume that such noble lords of the world and venomous, bitter worms are not accustomed to working and would be very reluctant to humble themselves so deeply before the accursed Goyim — then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., compute with them how much their usury has extorted from us, divide this amicably, but then eject them forever from the country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

Wow... what a peach that guy is.

[Ganzo]

Diabolic, didn't you know that hates the jews cause they are the

p.s. Vonk, I need a jew emoticon

[Gidan]

To answer your first question... No, I don't believe in only the Bible. I believe in other people and works too, such as Martin Luther to name one. I also believe that Ellen G. White was filled with the Holy Spirit and has written books to help people understand scripture better, and has led many people to Christ. I don't think of her as a prophet though.

Yes, I believe that the Bible was written by holy men, or men filled with the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Martin Luther removed the books the books of the Apocrypha from the "Bible" under divine influence.

So the bible CAN be edited, but only with your aproval of who does it? Who are you to decide who can and cant edit the bible and be considered "filled with the Holy Spirit". How do you know that the other people who added books to the bible were not "filled with the holy spirit"? Because somone told you, what research have you done on the subject? What experts have you spoken with. What non christians have you spoken with?

[Narrock]

Mindia - I have two followup questions for you:

If you believe ONLY in the Bible... then anything that isn't explicitly stated in the Bible isn't true? Regarding Jesus, I mean... obviously.

Also, you believe that God wrote the Bible through ... whoever. Right?

To answer your first question... No, I don't believe in only the Bible. I believe in other people and works too, such as Martin Luther to name one. I also believe that Ellen G. White was filled with the Holy Spirit and has written books to help people understand scripture better, and has led many people to Christ. I don't think of her as a prophet though.

Yes, I believe that the Bible was written by holy men, or men filled with the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Martin Luther removed the books the books of the Apocrypha from the "Bible" under divine influence.

I know what you're trying to get at, but... before you go jumping up and down with glee thinking that you've cornered me or "owned" me somehow, don't forget this:

OK, if you don't believe in ONLY the Bible, then you admit that the Bible is not the "end all, be all" for Christian guidance. You admit you follow the "teachings" of two others (Martin Luther and Ellen White). By doing so, you lose your grounds for claiming (as you do often and vehemently) that if something isn't in the Bible then it's not FACT. You are hereby refuted and any further arguments of something not being "scriptural" are void. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, meaning that you can't have your non-Biblical sources of God's word and deny others the right to do the same when all you have to base your OPINION on is your particular faith and beliefs. Until you can PROVE them wrong, you have no room to tell people that their beliefs are false since they aren't written specifically in the Bible.

As far as the authors of the Bible go, if God truly guided the hands of those who wrote the Bible, how do you explain the inaccuracies (both scientific and historical - which have been proven so don't deny they exist) and the contradictions (which also exist, plentifully... don't try to deny these exist as well)? If God is truly leading Man in the authoring of His Word, then wouldn't God know what he already has instructed to be written - or at the very least - know not to contradict himself? Wouldn't he also know the Truth as is stands to easily researched and proven scientific/historical events/concepts? The simple fact that the Bible is littered with such errors leads many to believe that the Bible is the work of men, not God - or that God is somehow unable to remember what he has already commissioned to be written or events that have occured. or that God doesn't understand simple science.

How do you answer this?

Next time, don't assume I'm trying to trap you into something as narrow as the inclusion of the Apocrypha... your statements have much larger holes in them than something so small as that.

This is quite possibly the most respectable post I've ever read from you Ug. You make a lot of sense here, and you make a good point, and you were not offensive. I will not argue this. However, I will point out this one area of fascination (to me)...

When we look to others for guidance and inspiration (through their written works) we are trusting them that they are giving us accurate information, truthfulness, and practicality that we can apply to our daily lives. In the case of Christian authors, this rings especially true when in context to, and in reference to, the Bible.

Many of these authors use the Bible as a reference point for their works, and you can cross-check them by referencing the Bible yourself to check for any inaccuracies or inconsistencies. Such authors would be people like Ellen G. White (Steps To Christ, Desire of Ages, etc.), Rick Warren (The Purpose-Driven Life), Lee Strobel (A Case for Christ), Martin Luther (The Jews and their Lies, The Bondage of the Will, etc.), John Calvin (Institutes of the Christian Religion), Larry E. Dyer (Baptism - The Believer's First Obedience), etc.

We trust these authors to guide us through the Bible, and to help construct doctrine or dogmata based only on the Bible to show us how to live, how to act, how to worship, how to pray, etc. The authors I just mentioned can be cross-examined by having one of their books in one hand, and the Bible in the other. You will be very hard-pressed to find any inaccuracies or inconsistencies with the Bible with the forementioned authors (unless of course your reference is from an anti- <insert author here> propaganda website.

Now, with that in mind we now know how to do (or not do), or understand: Baptism; Communion; The State of the Dead; Confession and Forgiveness; Obedience; Idolatry; The Sabbath; Christ's Second Coming; etc. etc. etc. You get the point...

Based on that there are a few religions out there (Christian sects) that deviate away from what the Bible teaches us. And once again, you can use the Bible as a reference to see what I'm talking about. Therein is where the problem lies... not with (me), or what (he) thinks, or what (she) thinks, but with doctrine or dogmata that deviates away from Scriptural teachings. That is what I find peculiar about the Roman Catholic Church. They engage in many practices that are either, A. Not in the Bible, or B. Actually go against the Bible. These are facts that cannot be debated. All you have to do is open your Bible for the truth.

So, in essence, what the Roman Catholic Church has done was to say, "Well, we don't like what it says in the Bible in reference to: Communion, Confession, Idolatry, etc... so we are going to come up with our own practices and rituals." Many good church-going Catholics who were raised with Catholicism think this is the norm... the way "it's supposed to be," and discount and discredit anybody who says to them, "Hey, check this out..." (opening the Bible and pointing out fallicies and inaccuracies with their religion). They don't want to hear about it, because they are sure that "their way is the right way."

Frankly, I don't really care anymore. There's nothing more I can do in regards to this subject. I have offered proof, truth, and accuracy, and I base it only on the Bible. If you choose to ignore the Bible and continue doing your own thing because that's how you were raised and that's where your little comfort zone is... then that's your business. However, it is a Christian's business to spread the good news of the gospel no matter how many times they get rejected. Even though realizing that evangelizing on the NT was a bad idea to begin with, and a lot of opposition was met with, I will continue to do so... for it is my duty.

[Gidan]

I feel like I just watched or listened to an LDS commercial.

~Darc

Forgot I was logged on Gid's account.

[Narrock]

I feel like I just watched or listened to an LDS commercial.

~Darc

Forgot I was logged on Gid's account.

LDS? lol

[Ganzo]

Martin Luther (The Jews and their Lies)

Where can i get coppy of that one

[Darcler]

lol

[Langston]

you can't have your non-Biblical sources of God's word and deny others the right to do the same when all you have to base your OPINION on is your particular faith and beliefs. Until you can PROVE them wrong, you have no room to tell people that their beliefs are false since they aren't written specifically in the Bible.

Mindia - listen to me please... once again, in your post, you ignore the fact that you're saying that your BELIEFS are better or more "true" than anyone else's that does not agree with you. You base this upon your CHOICE of authors and scriptures... and you, accordingly, dismiss anyone/thing that doesn't fit into your very narrow mold of what "correct" Christianity is. This single point, if everything else were absent, is what causes the most contention and enmity between you and the other posters on this board. If you truly want to reach out to people, you would stop telling them how they're wrong, and start telling them where they're right.

Have you ever heard of a seven-step program for alchoholism? It's a process of taking small measures that result eventually in a large, significant goal (to stop drinking). There are many other examples of this type of system to accomplish seemingly inconquerable tasks. They focus on positive activities off which they can build to the next step for total success in the end.

You might want to consider their example if you wish to try, in any fashion if only with an infintessimal measure of potential success, to continue to "witness" here. Otherwise you're doing nothing but the precise opposite of your professed wishes. You aren't bringing anyone closer to Christ nor are you teaching them anything other than how to be a narrow-minded, argumentative "christian" full of arrogance and his minded closed to anything except his own theories and beliefs. That's not an attack - that is simply a precise look at how people view you here. You aren't doing Christ any favors with your behavior here and you might seriously want to consider modifying your approach. It's likely too late... but, whatever...

[Narrock]

Martin Luther (The Jews and their Lies)

Where can i get coppy of that one

here:

http://www.amazon.com

or here:

http://www.buy.com/retail/searchresults ... caid=17282

or, just check it out at your local library.



Ganzo, also remember... SDA's have a lot in common with Jews. Although we are Protestant, we are not Lutherans.

[Narrock]

you can't have your non-Biblical sources of God's word and deny others the right to do the same when all you have to base your OPINION on is your particular faith and beliefs. Until you can PROVE them wrong, you have no room to tell people that their beliefs are false since they aren't written specifically in the Bible.

Mindia - listen to me please... once again, in your post, you ignore the fact that you're saying that your BELIEFS are better or more "true" than anyone else's that does not agree with you. You base this upon your CHOICE of authors and scriptures... and you, accordingly, dismiss anyone/thing that doesn't fit into your very narrow mold of what "correct" Christianity is. This single point, if everything else were absent, is what causes the most contention and enmity between you and the other posters on this board. If you truly want to reach out to people, you would stop telling them how they're wrong, and start telling them where they're right.

Have you ever heard of a seven-step program for alchoholism? It's a process of taking small measures that result eventually in a large, significant goal (to stop drinking). There are many other examples of this type of system to accomplish seemingly inconquerable tasks. They focus on positive activities off which they can build to the next step for total success in the end.

You might want to consider their example if you wish to try, in any fashion if only with an infintessimal measure of potential success, to continue to "witness" here. Otherwise you're doing nothing but the precise opposite of your professed wishes. You aren't bringing anyone closer to Christ nor are you teaching them anything other than how to be a narrow-minded, argumentative "christian" full of arrogance and his minded closed to anything except his own theories and beliefs. That's not an attack - that is simply a precise look at how people view you here. You aren't doing Christ any favors with your behavior here and you might seriously want to consider modifying your approach. It's likely too late... but, whatever...

Ok, I'll take that into consideration. Be rest assured that my intentions are good. The only reason I pointed out my opinion, analysis, and interpretation of the RCC is because I honestly feel, through study of scripture, that a lot of what they (The RCC) do can be viewed as sacreligious. Yes, I may have come across as arrogant and pompous (and for that I apologize), but I felt like I was banging my head into a brick wall.

I will no longer point my finger and say, "This is how it is" and "This is definitely why your religion is wrong." I will try to use more tact, respect, and sensitivity. On the other side of the coin, I urge many of you to open the Bible and start reading, and get into discussions, and really delve into Scripture like you never have before. Let's discuss things on a rational level.

[Ganzo]

Ganzo, also remember... SDA's have a lot in common with Jews. Although we are Protestant, we are not Lutherans.

Here is where the difrence between us :

I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.

[Narrock]

There is no difference between you and I in that regard... if you accept that Jesus is Lord.

[Ganzo]

There is no difference between you and I in that regard... if you accept that Jesus is Lord.

My people made pact in the desert with God that there will be no Lords above us but God and we will bow to no one; so no I will not accept Jesus as my Lord.

[Lyion]

Did you hear the real reason the Jews wandered in the desert for 40 years?

[Langston]

Moses wouldn't stop and ask for directions?

[Diabolik]

Someone dropped a quarter?

[Drem]

Not to start a big thread again on biblical translation (since I'm taking a course on translation, I do kind of have a handle on this topic), but I have a question.

Mindia,

Don't you feel that whichever translation of the bible you're relying on for teachings affects your overall interpretation of its teachings? We've studied a few sections briefly of the bible (mainly in Genesis) and there are a lot of word choice and idea inaccuracies due to its translation over the years. As in, older English translations vary a lot from current translations as our language changes over time.

Of course the general points still come across the same, but little discrepancies can change how someone interprets things.

Like I stated in another thread, I don't honestly feel that you're reading the real bible if you're not reading it in Latin, Greek, or Aramaic.

And that's your right to believe that. Go ahead and continue making excuses. See how far you get with it, then get back to me. Mkay? Great.

Hey man I was asking you a question. I wasn't stating an opinion and asking you to give snide commentary.

[Dylan]

Man, the bible is so dead on from what it was when it was first written. I mean Moses totally had horns and shit...

[mofish]

Ellen G. White was filled with the holy spirit eh.

I think it was shit, not the holy spirit. I can see how they could be confused though.

Check out her lies :

http://www.bible.ca/7-prophecy-blunders.htm

The best part is when she blames the SDA church for her prophecies not coming true lol.

[Narrock]

Ellen G. White was filled with the holy spirit eh.

I think it was shit, not the holy spirit. I can see how they could be confused though.

Check out her lies :

http://www.bible.ca/7-prophecy-blunders.htm

The best part is when she blames the SDA church for her prophecies not coming true lol.

That's part of the reason why I don't revere her as a prophet. My pastor agrees with me on that, and he never even uses her works in his sermons. lol

[kaharthemad]

Don't be bitter because I have a firmer grasp of scripture than you. You have the ability to learn it too. You just can't be like Dammuzi's icon pic, which basically describes a typical Catholic. Stop resisting, and learn.

If that is what you think there you are so far from the truth. You worship Mindia...thats it. Care for me to pull quotes from when your sorry ass was kicked from this board last time for being a rabid moron? You are nothing. Your religion is not that of the preaching faith but a hypocrisy. You preach in one thread God, and Jesus and in the next thread you make fun of someone, call them names and treat disrespectfully.

When you start practicing what you preach then we will start taking you seriously. But you cant can you? Cause you are not a real christian. You sit there with a bible in one hand screaming Onward Christian Soldiers, and with the other hand your rubbing off to a playboy on the counter.Make up your mind. be a christitan or be a anti chrisitian...just fucking pick one.

[Donnel]

You guys suck. I was actually going to join this conversation 4 pages ago, but no, you just had to go on without me.

*mope*

[vonkaar]

p.s. Vonk, I need a jew emoticon

I could probably find a hasidic jew smiley... would this offend?

[vonkaar]

I will no longer point my finger and say, "This is how it is" and "This is definitely why your religion is wrong." I will try to use more tact, respect, and sensitivity. On the other side of the coin, I urge many of you to open the Bible and start reading, and get into discussions, and really delve into Scripture like you never have before. Let's discuss things on a rational level.

Swear by this?

Seriously... cuz I'll hold you to it.