Ganzo wrote:Everyone has a choice. We are not talking about average Joe, this is new Pope. The leader of Catholic people throughout the world, man of principals and corage. He did not HAVE to join HYP, he did not HAVE to join the army. He was coward and did that because he was afraid for his life.
His membership in HYP don't bother me as much as what he did when he was in the army. He was a guard at BMW manufacturing. The plant that used slave labor of jews and slavic people. And no he did not guard autoparts there.
Last Pope, Jean Poul II was in simmilar position during WW2 but he chouse to go underground and join liberation movement instead.
This guys also said that his plan is to reunite all christians of every denomination under Roman Catholic Church, and Christianization of Israel.
Good choise of Pope
HAHA that is such BS. You are being extremely unrealistic Ganzo. Dying is not a valid option. Placing yourself in harm's way is not a valid option. Ratzinger had no choice but to join the Hitler youth, period. You need to just accept that and move on. You are taking the liberal Jewish perspective. Take a look at what your conservative Jewish counterparts are saying about Ratzinger. It makes more sense.
The only thing I agree with you on is that he is trying to unite all Christians under the Roman Catholic Church. That will never happen. There's too many people around the world that know the truth behind the RCC for reasons I've pointed out already. If the RCC wants worldwide unification of all Christians they are going to need to engage in a MAJOR paradigm shift in their way of thinking, and their dogma.
As far as Christianization of Israel... that will never happen either, so I don't know why he's even bothering to try that.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Mindia wrote: Dying is not a valid option. Placing yourself in harm's way is not a valid option. Ratzinger had no choice but to join the Hitler youth, period. You need to just accept that and move on.
Eziekial wrote: The western world was SHOCKED when our soldier discovered the mass execution chambers and concentration camps as we liberated Europe. I did not grow up in Nazi Germany but I have read that they (the Nazis) did not go around shouting "Join the Hitler Youth Program and learn to gas Jews!" I would imagine the German people would not have stood and allowed for such things if they knew the true nature of the nazi party.
That is a load of crap. Everyone in Germany knew what was happening. As far as western world, thats even bigger crap. When Jewsish leaders in US begged US and Allies in 1944-45 to bomb railroads that Nazis used to masstransit jews to gas chambers, "western world" would not fly 5 miles off the course to bomb the roads, while they were bombing factories with jewish slaves.
HAHA that is such BS. You are being extremely unrealistic Ganzo. Dying is not a valid option. Placing yourself in harm's way is not a valid option. Ratzinger had no choice but to join the Hitler youth, period.
Thats a load of BS. If it was against his beleifs he should have stuck to his beleifs. Why should he fear death if he has been a good servant to his God?
In all honesty, if I were in his position I probably would have done the same as he. I of course am not now the pope nor will I ever be. If he were a good Catholic at the time and did not agree with what was being done he should have stood his group and accepted death if thats was the cost of his beleifs.
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Maybe God told him he wanted him to live and so he didn't throw his life away.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
The Sun of London headline "From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi."
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
Given that I am no longer Catholic, his appointment effects me not 1 iota. However, I think he will turn out to be a bad appointment, due to his stances on a lot of issues. Already, there's a deep-seated schism within the Catholic church between the more liberal American church and the dogmatic traditionalists like Ratzinger. His appointment is going to do nothing but deepen that devide; and, depending on how zealous he is about trying to enforce his previously stated doctrines, could lead to a open schism, with much of Europe and the US cutting ties, similar to when the Eastern Orthodox church broke away.
What the Catholic Church needs is someone who is dedicated to be inclusive, instead of exclusive. Who is dedicated to working with people of different convictions and those of other faiths, instead of dictating to them. I think he's in for a very large shock if he tries to push the US Diocese and expects them to meekly fall in line. From everything I've heard from family members that are still in the faith (my parents are VERY active), if he tries that, the diocese will either push back or simply ignore him as much as they can. Not to mention, he's going to get absolutely nowhere in trying to un-devide christianity or to christianize Israel.
How does one think it doesn't affect them, especially after our last election in which the religious right is the reason bush won... Don't get pissy Mindia, he was a better choice than Kerry but not by much.
And for Garg - wtf are you talking about in regaurds to the pope not being replacable by ppl and then forgot after?
The entire reason they have this fucking huge melodramatic thing with the pope is because he can be replaced and not forgotten...
Narrock wrote:I don't like rabbits. They remind me of this chick I met on teh internet like 5 years ago.
Ganzo, as soon as Israel apologizes for the USS Liberty, come talk to me about a 15 year old boy fighting against a nationalistic group and ending up risking his life to try and escape true evil.
Edited: USS Liberty, not Pueblo.. In Oracle class.. cant surf much
Last edited by Lyion on Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step. – C. S. Lewis
I've stated many times that I think Sharon to be unfit to lead goats to water, much less Israel. However again Sharon is not SPIRITUAL leader. I gues you don't demand same character from your's as we do from ours.
Lyion wrote:Ganzo, as soon as Israel apologizes for the USS Liberty
Israel DID apologise for it, you keep bringin it up as only excuse you have against Israel, whenever you don't have an actual argument against me. Update your material
I'll be happy to compare Ratzinger to many Jewish leaders, Ganzo, and what they've done. He was very anti hitler and you are wrong to judge him based on what happened when he was under 17 growing up in Germany. Thats an ignorant and wrong position for you to take.
Here's his Bio of that time:
1927 Ratzinger is born on April 16, Holy Saturday in Marktl am Inn, and is baptized the same day. Reflecting on this experience in his memoirs, he says:
To be the first person baptized with the new water was seen as a significant act of Providence. I have always been filled with thanksgiving for having had my life immersed in this way in the Easter Mystery . . . the more I reflect on it, the more this seems fitting for the nature of our human life: we are still waiting for Easter; we are not yet standing in the full light but walking toward it full of trust. [p. 8, Milestones]
Ratzinger admits it is not easy to say what his 'hometown' is. As a rural policeman, his father was transferred frequently, and his family was continually on the road.
1929 Ratzinger's family moves to Tittmoning, a small town on the Salzach River, on the Austrian border.
1932 December: Due to his father's outspoken criticism of the Nazis, Ratzinger's family is forced to relocate to Auschau am Inn, at the foot of the Alps.
1937 Ratzinger's father retires and his family moves to Hufschlag, outside the city of Traunstein, where Josef would spend most of his years as a teenager. Here he begins classes at the local gymnasium for classical languages, where he studies Latin and Greek.
1939 Ratzinger enters the minor seminary in Traunstein, the initial step of his ecclesiastical career.
1943 Ratzinger, along with the rest of his seminary class, is drafted into the Flak [anti-aircraft corps]. He is still allowed to attend classes at the Maximilians-Gymnasium in Munich three days a week.
1944 September: Having reached military age, Ratzinger is released from the Flak and returns home, only to be drafted into labor detail under the infamous Austrian Legion ("fanatical ideologues who tyrannized us without respite").
November: Ratzinger undergoes basic training with the German infantry. Due to illness he finds himself exempt from most of the rigors of military duty.
1945 Spring (end of April or beginning of May): As the Allied front draws closer, Ratzinger deserts the army and heads home to Traunstein. When the Americans finally arrive at his village, they choose to establish their headquarters in the Ratzinger house. Josef is identified as a German soldier and incarcerated in a POW camp.
June 19: Ratzinger is released and returns home to Traunstein, followed by his brother Georg in July.
November: Ratzinger and his brother Georg re-enter the seminary.
1947 Ratzinger enters the Herzogliches Georgianum, a theological institute associated with the University of Munich.
1951 June 29: Georg and Josef Ratzinger are ordained into the priesthood by Cardinal Faulhaber, in the Cathedral at Freising, on the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul.
1953 July: Ratzinger receives his doctorate in theology from the University of Munich. In connection with his doctoral studies he produces his first important work: Volk und Haus Gottes in Augustins Lehre von der Kirche [People and House of God in Augustine's doctrine of the Church].
Ratzinger devotes his Habilitationsschrift -- book-length contribution to original research in order to teach at the university level -- to Bonaventure's theology of history and revelation.
I can't speak for anyone but myself. Of course there are going to be people who remember him. I still don't feel it is right to bow down to anyone but the Lord. You are right, though. He will be remembered for his kindness for all time.
