F Bill Gates

[dammuzis]

im in the same position as Arlos

i went from making 60k a year at Microsoft to having my job outsourced to india to now im working for dell not as a software engineer or a tech but as a flipping computer salesman for peanuts. the only reason i survive is because of comission checks

[Phlegm]

All the corporations in America are slaves to the stockholders, Microsoft included. In order to keep these stockholders happy, they have to watch their bottom lines. ALL THEY CARE ABOUT ARE THE BOTTOM LINES. Unless it affect their bottom lines, your whining arent doing jack shit. If you want them to change their way let them know by not buying their products.

[Narrock]

im in the same position as Arlos

i went from making 60k a year at Microsoft to having my job outsourced to india to now im working for dell not as a software engineer or a tech but as a flipping computer salesman for peanuts. the only reason i survive is because of comission checks

Congratulations on adapting and overcoming. I hate whiners. Are you a software engineer or do you build network structures for companies?

[Diekan]

Hey Mindia, since you're on the National Dean's list and all - why don't you break down the 7 layers of the OSI model for us. Or, better yet, why don't you explain to us what 'AND'ing is... (which is very simple)... but let's see if you can do all this without looking everything up on Google. Now explain to me why IT people should make 10 bucks an hour, moron.

Secondly, allow me to take a few moments to fully explain where I stand on corporate America, since this is one of my favorite subjects (not that I haven't already stated my position several times already).

Do any of you really know just how much *money* Microsoft is worth? Here's a little hint - they have roughly about 282 BILLION dollars worth of public stock being held by investors alone. I want you to take a friggen minute to THINK about what Microsoft does. They make software... not cars, not buildings, not ships, not computers, not televisions.... they make a virtual non-concrete product that's placed on a simple plastic disk and shipped in an ever cheaper box. For Christ's sake, do you have any idea of how CHEAP it is to mass produce a CD / DVD with the SAME program on it? I would like for ANY of you to try and justify Microsoft's need to outsource jobs... a company worth HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars which produces software... and they decide to outsource? Please tell me why? Please explain to me how their decision to send American jobs overseas has nothing to do with pure greed, please... I'm all eyes.

Or, let's take a moment to look at GE (General Electric)... last I checked (and it has been a while, so I may be mistaken now) GE is actually worth MORE and is BIGGER than Microsoft... yet they are delving into the now en vogue art of sending YOUR jobs to the lowest bidder across the big pond. Wanna explain that one to me? Wanna explain how that is good for this country?

Want to talk about Dell's net worth? And, discuss their need to outsource thousands upon thousands of American jobs to India?

I am sick and tired of you people defending these gluttons with your half assed reasoning. Explain in detail how we, as a country, are going benefit from all this oh so needed outsourcing.

Now, yes, I DO think that SOME out sourcing is a good thing... yes you heard me... SOME. After all life is full of "give and take," no? How many Japanese companies have built plants here and created jobs for us? How many German, British, so on? So, yes, I have no problem with a little outsourcing to "return the favor" in a matter of speaking. I also hold no grudge toward a company that outsources because it has an honest need in order to survive.

As has already been mentioned at least two or three times, you need to wake up and open your eyes. Our Hispanic friends, on the other side of the boarder, are coming here in droves and taking not just our lower level jobs, but now some of our potentially "mid level" jobs (e.g. construction and warehousing). So, you can pretty much kiss those jobs goodbye, unless you're willing to try and support your family on 7 dollars an hour. We've been watching our factories and manufacturing sectors replacing it's workers with robots and automation (that is... those that didn't sell out to China and Mexico first) for how long now? So, guess what? Those jobs are going, going, gone. Now, as if that wasn't enough. Our higher level jobs (IT, Science, Engineering, Administration - just to name a few) are being sold off to the lowest bidder (e.g some jack who speaks English like a 6 year old asking for a cookie). So, what in the holy fuck are we supposed to do? Go back to college to earn another degree that we'll not be able to use either?

Ask Parv how well he's done in finding a job - he has TWO Engineering degrees (I believe). Ask Arlos how well he's done in finding something with all his experience, education and certifications. You think those two are "rare cases?" If you do you're sadly SADLY mistaken.

Despite what some of you think... the AVERAGE working American is not a money hungry fuck stick who's not happy unless he/she is earning a wage 10 times more than they're worth. No. The average American just wants to make enough to cover their fucking bills, buy a home, put their kids through a good school and maybe... just maybe... retire at a decent age WITHOUT having to work 6 fucking jobs and forcing their kids to eat Ramen noodles just to pay our astronomical cost of living - which shows no sign of slowing down, or even taking a breath before sending us all to the poor house.

"But ohh Diekan, you just understand... outsourcing leads to lower prices" My ass it does... 90% of the shit you buy is and HAS BEEN made in China for how long now? Wanna take some time to rethink that dumbass argument?

Outsourcing benefits ONLY the top level of a corporation and the shareholders... let me rephrase that... the shareholders who are rich enough to buy enough stock to actually benefit from the dividends in the first place. That pretty much excludes most of the people (if not all) who post here. Hmm on second thought - that pretty much excludes the majority of the country.

Furthermore, I can't understand why some of you think greed is good for this country. It's not. Greed is a disease that will... I say WILL... eventually bring us to our knees. Competition is what has driven our success. There is a difference between ambition / competition and blatant pure greed.

"So just go back to school and make yourself more marketable." That's not a bad idea... but it doesn't quite work when everyone and their brother is doing the SAME thing. Colleges are pumping out more graduates now than ever before... you know what that does (and I am talking about the REAL WORLD - not some economics class discussion)? It drives wages and benefits down... where a company may have had a "few" applications for a job, and thus had to offer a "competitive" wage in order to attract a good employee - they now have thousands of applications / resumes to choose from - and they KNOW they can offer a lower wage because out of the now bloated job pool they'll find someone who'll take it. That's how the real world works. Ultimately, we are quickly reaching a point where a four year degree is worth about as much as a high school diploma.

There is plenty of blame to go around for our situation. For one, yes... I FULLY blame the current administration. Bush is a fucking republican. Republicans have always favored big business. What part of that don't some of you get? Do Democrats do the same? Yes, but at least they DO spend a little more effort in helping the people who put them in office through votes and not just contributions.

There MUST be some checks and balances in everything... human nature dictates this. Right now, there is nothing, I mean nothing, in place to protect us from the actions and bad decisions made by corporate America. Our current government is to busy distracting us with frivolous bullshit and a war (that shouldn't even be in) to do anything (not that they would anyway).

Corporate America is eventually going to send all of us to the poor house while laughing all the way to the bank, and some of you mindlessly justify their actions with ludicrous reasoning.

I said that there was plenty of blame to 'round. Well, there is... this situation is largely due to our own lack of action. While our economy is struggling and our jobs are being sold off - what do we worry about? What do we focus on? Homosexual marriage. What the fuck is wrong with this country? Jesus Christ, do we not have more important issues to fucking worry about? So, yes, WE are responsible, in part, for what's happening to us. By not stepping up the plate and exercising our constitutional obligation to hold the fuck heads who "run" this country responible for their actions. And, no I am not talking about blow jobs, so stfu Mindia.

We need to hold our government accountable, we need to FORCE the people who we vote for to hold corporate America accountable.

We have already surrendered our seat as the industrial leader of the world (and yes, this has also already been stated before in previous posts) - how long is going to be before we are no longer the technological, engineering, or medical leaders of the world? How long before the US leads the world in nothing but crime rates?

Is this the type of America you want to pass down to your kids? Maybe you're just like the majority of this country and don't care so long as homo's can't get married.

Yes, something has to be done. American corporations are destroying our middle class... and they don't care... what's worse is that our own government (which was elected by US to look after our best interest) is doing more to help than stop it from happening.

We need to hold America’s companies accountable. We need to keep fucking jobs HERE. We need to pay a wage that is comparable to the cost of living. But, this isn’t going to happen any time soon. No, instead we’re just going to sit idly by and accept our new 70 hour work weeks and our 13 dollar an hour jobs… we’re just going to suck it up and work two jobs so we can pay the rent… some of you will continue to try and defend the abusive outsourcing conducted by multi BILLION dollar companies as a good thing.

Wake the fuck up people.

And, yes I know my grammar and spelling suck - it's midnight here - what do I care.

[dammuzis]

mindia i sell computers for dell for about a third of what i was making before
it has nothing to do with adapting and overcomming its just that sales was the ONLY job i could get PERIOD... i was either underqualified (wtf 10 years and 2 degrees? one in math) or overqualified..

the last engineering job i turned down paid $10 an hour and they required a BA or better just to apply

job i have pays the same amount per hour and requires no degree very little skill..
i seriously hope that you get replaced by some immigrant who will do your job for 1/10 your salary and you end up losing everything

[Narrock]

Hey Mindia, sense you're on the National Dean's list and all - why don't you break down the 7 layers of the OSI model for us. Or, better yet, why don't you explain to us what ANDing is... (which is very simple)... but let's see if you can do all this without looking everything up on Google. Now explain to me why IT people should make 10 bucks an hour, moron.


Secondly, allow me to take a few moments to fully explain where I stand on corporate America, since this is on my favorite subjects (not that I haven't already stated my position several times already).

Do any of you really know just how much *money* Microsoft is worth? Here's a little hint - they have roughly about 282 BILLION dollars worth of public stock being held by investors alone. I want you to take a friggen minute to THINK about what Microsoft does. They make software... not cars, not buildings, not ships, not computers, not televisions.... they make a virtual non-concrete product that's placed on a simple plastic disk. For Christ's sake do you have any idea of how CHEAP it is to mass produce a CD / DVD with a program on it? I would like for ANY of you to try and justify Microsoft's need to out source jobs... a company worth HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars who produce software... and they decide to out source? Please tell me why? Please explain to me how their decision to send American jobs over seas has nothing to do with pure greed, please... I'm all eyes.

Or, let's take a moment to look at GE (General Electric)... last I checked (and it has been a while, so I may be mistaken now) GE is actually worth MORE and is BIGGER than Microsoft... yet they are delving into the now en vogue art of sending YOUR jobs to the lowest bidder across the big pond. Wanna explain that one to me? Wanna explain how that is good for the country?

Want to talk about Dell's net worth? And, discuss their need to outsource thousands upon thousands of American jobs to India?

I am sick and tired of you people defending these gluttons with your half assed reasoning. Fucking explain in detail how we, as a country, are going benefit from all this oh so needed out sourcing.

Now, yes, I DO think that SOME out sourcing is a good thing... yes you heard me... SOME. After all life is full of "give and take," no? How many Japanese companies have built plants here and created jobs for us? How many German, British, so on? So, yes, I have no problem with a little out sourcing to "return the favor" in a matter of speaking. I also hold no grudge to a company that out sources because it has an honest need to do such in order to survive.

This has already been mentioned at least two or three times, but you need to wake up and open your eyes. Our Hispanic friends on the other side of the boarder are coming here in droves and taking not just our lower level jobs, but now some of our potentially "mid level" jobs (e.g. construction and warehousing). So, you can pretty much kiss those jobs good bye, unless you're willing to try and support your family on 7 dollars an hour. We've been watching our factories and manufacturing sectors replacing it's workers with robots and automation (that is those that didn't sell out to China and Mexico first). So, guess what? Those jobs are going, going, gone. Now, as if that wasn't enough. Our higher level jobs are being sold off to the highest bidder to some jack who speaks English like a 6 year old asking for a cookie. So, what in the holy fuck are we supposed to do? Go back to college to earn another degree that we'll not be able to use either?

Ask Parv how well he's done in finding a job - he has TWO Engineering degrees (I believe). Ask Arlos how well he's done in finding something with all his experience, education and certifications. You think those two are "rare cases?" If you do you're sadly SADLY mistaken.

Despite what some of you think... the AVERAGE working American is not a money hungry fuck stick who's not happy unless they're earning a wage 10 times more than they're worth. No. The average American just wants to make enough to cover their fucking bills, buy a home, put their kids through a good school and maybe... just maybe retire a decent age WITHOUT having to work 6 fucking jobs and forcing their kids to eat Ramen noodles just to pay that astronomical cost of living - that shows no sign of slowing the fuck down, or even taking a breath before sending us all to the poor house.

"But ohh Diekan, you just understand... out sourcing leads to lower prices" My ass they do. 90% of the shit you buy is and HAS been made in China for how long now? Wanna take some time to rethink that dumbass argument?

Outsourcing benefits ONLY the top level of a corporation and the shareholders... let me rephrase that... the shareholders who are rich enough to buy enough stock to actually benefit from the dividends in the first place. That pretty much excludes most of the people (if not all) who post here.

I can't understand why some of you think greed is good for this country. It is not. Greed is a disease that will... I say WILL... eventually bring us to our knees. Competition is what has driven our success. There is a difference between ambition / competition and blatant pure greed.

"So just go back to school and make yourself more marketable." That's not a bad idea... but it doesn't quite work when everyone and their brother is doing the SAME thing. Colleges are pumping out more graduates now than ever before... you know what that does (and I am talking in the REAL WORLD - not in some economics classroom)? It drives wages and benefits down... where a company may have had a "few" applications for a job, and thus had to offer a "competitive" wage in order to get someone in to do the job - they now have thousands of applications / resumes to choose from - and they KNOW they can offer a lower wage and because out of the now bloated job pool they'll find someone who'll take it. That's how the real world works. We are quickly reaching a point where a four year degree is worth about as much as a high school diploma.

There is plenty of blame to go around for our situation. For one, yes... I FULLY blame the current administration. Bush is a fucking republican. Republicans have always favored big business. What part of that don't some of you get? Do Democrats do the same? Yes, but at least they DO spend a little more effort in helping the people who put them in office through votes, not contributions.

There MUST be some checks and balances in everything... human nature dictates this. Right now, there is nothing, I mean nothing, in place to protect us from the actions and bad decisions made by corporate America. Our current government is to busy distracting us with frivolous bullshit and a war (that shouldn't even be in) to do anything (not that they would anyway).

Corporate America is send all of us to the poor house and laughing all the way to the bank, while some of you mindlessly justify their actions with ludicrous reasoning.

I said that there was plenty of blame to 'round. Well, there is... this situation is largely due to our own lack of action. While our economy is struggling and our jobs are being sold off - what do we worry about? What do we focus on? Homosexual marriage. What the fuck is wrong with this country? Jesus Christ do we not have more important issues to fucking worry about? So, yes, WE are responsible, in part, for what's happening to us. By not stepping up the plate and exercising our constitutional obligation to hold the fuck heads who "run" this country responible for their actions. And, no I am not talking about blow jobs, so stfu Mindia.

We need to hold our government accountable, we need to FORCE the people who we vote for to hold corporate America accountable.

We have already surrendered our seat as the industrial leader of the world (and yes, this has also already been stated before in previous posts) - how long is going to be before we are no longer the technological, engineering, or medical leaders of the world? How long before the US leads the world in nothing but crime rates?

Is this the type of America you want to pass down to your kids? Maybe you're just like the majority of this country and don't care so long as homo's can't get married.

Yes, something has to be done. American corporations are destroying our middle class... and they don't care...

We need to hold America’s companies accountable. We need to keep fucking jobs HERE. We need to pay a wage that is comparable to the cost of living. But, this isn’t going to happen any time soon. No, instead we’re just going to sit idly by and accept our new 70 hour work weeks and our 13 dollar an hour jobs… we’re just going to suck it up and work two jobs so we can pay the rent… some of you will continue to try and defend the abusive outsourcing conducted by multi BILLION dollar companies as a good thing.

Wake the fuck up people.

And, yes I know my grammar and spelling suck - it's midnight here - what do I care.

shutup whiner.

[Narrock]

mindia i sell computers for dell for about a third of what i was making before
it has nothing to do with adapting and overcomming its just that sales was the ONLY job i could get PERIOD... i was either underqualified (wtf 10 years and 2 degrees? one in math) or overqualified..

the last engineering job i turned down paid $10 an hour and they required a BA or better just to apply

job i have pays the same amount per hour and requires no degree very little skill..
i seriously hope that you get replaced by some immigrant who will do your job for 1/10 your salary and you end up losing everything

Just goes to show you how seriously overpaid you were at one point. Microsoft wised up. Welcome to REALITY 101. Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

[veeneedefeesh]

shutup whiner.

I am completely dumbfounded. I have no words to explain to you how on the mark Diekan was and what a closeminded slug you are for not at least consenting his point.

[Diabolik]

Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

So you have a problem with *legal* immigrants, as well? Not shocked in the slightest.

Also, weren't you the one whining and bitching on these very boards about your precious little carpenter's union wages going away just a few weeks ago? Did you find somewhere else to whine about it?

[Harrison]

Just goes to show you how seriously overpaid you were at one point. Microsoft wised up. Welcome to REALITY 101. Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

You just proved without a doubt, 100%, you are retarded. Right there, it's been done.

I can't even comprehend your reasoning behind that.

[Diekan]

Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

Also, weren't you the one whining and bitching on these very boards about your precious little carpenter's union wages going away just a few weeks ago? Did you find somewhere else to whine about it?

Just in case Mindia forgot "who" it is that's fucking him out of his own trade...

Here. Enjoy!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3887721/


Guess he didn't remember that "part" when he voted through his seething hate for homosexuals... opps!

I wouldn't grant to much credibilty to Mindia's comments about IT. He forgets that if it wasn't for the IT guys - he'd continue to spend half his day wondering what the little, palm sized, clicky thing with a long wire, sitting next to his keyboard is.

[Narrock]

Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

Also, weren't you the one whining and bitching on these very boards about your precious little carpenter's union wages going away just a few weeks ago? Did you find somewhere else to whine about it?

Just in case Mindia forgot "who" it is that's fucking him out of his own trade...

Here. Enjoy!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3887721/


Guess he didn't remember that "part" when he voted through his seething hate for homosexuals... opps!

I wouldn't grant to much credibilty to Mindia's comments about IT. He forgets that if it wasn't for the IT guys - he'd continue to spend half his day wondering what the little, palm sized, clicky thing with a long wire, sitting next to his keyboard is.

Yeah I whined about it over a year ago, but now I'm in the health insurance business and I'm not whining anymore am I?

[Narrock]

Just goes to show you how seriously overpaid you were at one point. Microsoft wised up. Welcome to REALITY 101. Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

You just proved without a doubt, 100%, you are retarded. Right there, it's been done.

I can't even comprehend your reasoning behind that.

Wth you talking about slim? You ever tried working construction? I hope you can habla Espanol. You are the one who is retarded and I might add... blind. Take a look around you before you start spouting off at your pie hole.

[Narrock]

shutup whiner.

I am completely dumbfounded. I have no words to explain to you how on the mark Diekan was and what a closeminded slug you are for not at least consenting his point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Zzzzzzzzzzz

[Narrock]

My old roommate is an IT guy in downtown Sacramento. He's on a salary of $42,000/yr. W A Y overpaid. He helped set up a network for this company and now it's done, and he just sits on his ass and waits for the tech help calls to come in when people screw up something on their computer. His salary should be cut at least in half for that BS cakewalk "job."

[Diekan]

You do realize that 42 thousand a year in Sacramento is like 20,000 a year here in Savannah.

What is it about wages needing to match the cost of living don't you understand?

IF he was working in Savannah, GA I highly doubt he'd be making 42 grand a year... however... he's doesn't. He in fact lives in one of the US's more expensive cities - so why should he be paid below Welfare wages? Just because you say so?

Just so you can see for yourself

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servle ... wnrent=own

And, 20,000 in Savannah will get you MAYBE a place in the worst part of town (with the highest crime rate - including a murder or two every month - Your's free just for calling now!). SO, I can't imagine what kinda of hell you'd have to live in, in Sacramento on 40k.

and you call the guy *over paid* grow a brain Mindia.

[Harrison]

Just goes to show you how seriously overpaid you were at one point. Microsoft wised up. Welcome to REALITY 101. Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

You just proved without a doubt, 100%, you are retarded. Right there, it's been done.

I can't even comprehend your reasoning behind that.

Wth you talking about slim? You ever tried working construction? I hope you can habla Espanol. You are the one who is retarded and I might add... blind. Take a look around you before you start spouting off at your pie hole.

I did work construction actually. What I got paid in cash was the equivelant of close to $17-20 an hour. Wasn't even in a union yet either.

People hire spics when they want a job done quick and shitty. They hired us when they wanted it done right. Coincedentally EVERY site I worked on was owned by a Jewish family...they'd pay us extra to do STUPID shit all the time too.

"I want a different molding, I'll pay you ridiculous X amount more to replace it with a different one than what I already selected It's already on its way"

us:

" ! "

[Diabolik]

Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

Also, weren't you the one whining and bitching on these very boards about your precious little carpenter's union wages going away just a few weeks ago? Did you find somewhere else to whine about it?

Just in case Mindia forgot "who" it is that's fucking him out of his own trade...

Yeah I whined about it over a year ago, but now I'm in the health insurance business and I'm not whining anymore am I?

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:08 pm
Mindia
NT Patron
The Seventh Day is the True Sabbath
NT Patron

Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 5958
Location: Sacramento, CA
Points 17187.9
[ Donate ]

The construction industry is in complete shambles in southern California. The unions are powerless against the onslaught of illegal immigration, and the contractors are hiring mostly non-union carpenters, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, etc. while work quality goes down the tubes.

I was at a club one night in Murrieta watching a band play. Inbetween sets I struck up a conversation with this guy who happened to be a contractor in Temecula. I told him that I was waiting for the union to call me, and that I was ready, willing, and able to go to work. He laughed and told me "Good luck dude." He said, "I only hire the Mexicans because they work for 10 bucks an hour."

Union Journeymen carpenters make about 27-28 bucks an hour on average, and on big prevailing-wage jobs you can make as much as 35-40 bucks an hour. The illegal Mexicans have screwed up the construction industry because they are willing to work for a fraction of what it costs a trained professional to do the job.

The contractors who hire illegal immigrants "undocumented aliens" are just as guilty for the downfall of the construction industry. I think the Federal government should step in and do a weekly sweep of every single construction project in America. If any illegal or "undocumented" aliens are found on the site they should be arrested and deported, and the contractor should be arrested and stripped of his contractor's license and never be allowed to work in the construction industry again. Enough is enough already. Illegal aliens have stolen food off the plate of the American worker for too long now. Drastic measures need to be implemented ASAP.

Viecente Fox is a criminal.

Try one month ago.

[veeneedefeesh]

[Narrock]

You do realize that 42 thousand a year in Sacramento is like 20,000 a year here in Savannah.

What is it about wages needing to match the cost of living don't you understand?

IF he was working in Savannah, GA I highly doubt he'd be making 42 grand a year... however... he's doesn't. He in fact lives in one of the US's more expensive cities - so why should he be paid below Welfare wages? Just because you say so?

Just so you can see for yourself

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servle ... wnrent=own

And, 20,000 in Savannah will get you MAYBE a place in the worst part of town (with the highest crime rate - including a murder or two every month - Your's free just for calling now!). SO, I can't imagine what kinda of hell you'd have to live in, in Sacramento on 40k.

and you call the guy *over paid* grow a brain Mindia.

Hey that's a cool calculator! Thanks! Anyway I was just in a pissy mood last night. I was admittedly... button pushing. Nobody can live on 20k these days unless you're a chump like Harrison who has to live with his parents or else he'd be homeless.

[Narrock]

Oh and btw... immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have totally screwed up the union trade skills sector. So go whine and bitch somewhere else chump.

Also, weren't you the one whining and bitching on these very boards about your precious little carpenter's union wages going away just a few weeks ago? Did you find somewhere else to whine about it?

Just in case Mindia forgot "who" it is that's fucking him out of his own trade...

Yeah I whined about it over a year ago, but now I'm in the health insurance business and I'm not whining anymore am I?

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:08 pm
Mindia
NT Patron
The Seventh Day is the True Sabbath
NT Patron

Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 5958
Location: Sacramento, CA
Points 17187.9
[ Donate ]

The construction industry is in complete shambles in southern California. The unions are powerless against the onslaught of illegal immigration, and the contractors are hiring mostly non-union carpenters, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, etc. while work quality goes down the tubes.

I was at a club one night in Murrieta watching a band play. Inbetween sets I struck up a conversation with this guy who happened to be a contractor in Temecula. I told him that I was waiting for the union to call me, and that I was ready, willing, and able to go to work. He laughed and told me "Good luck dude." He said, "I only hire the Mexicans because they work for 10 bucks an hour."

Union Journeymen carpenters make about 27-28 bucks an hour on average, and on big prevailing-wage jobs you can make as much as 35-40 bucks an hour. The illegal Mexicans have screwed up the construction industry because they are willing to work for a fraction of what it costs a trained professional to do the job.

The contractors who hire illegal immigrants "undocumented aliens" are just as guilty for the downfall of the construction industry. I think the Federal government should step in and do a weekly sweep of every single construction project in America. If any illegal or "undocumented" aliens are found on the site they should be arrested and deported, and the contractor should be arrested and stripped of his contractor's license and never be allowed to work in the construction industry again. Enough is enough already. Illegal aliens have stolen food off the plate of the American worker for too long now. Drastic measures need to be implemented ASAP.

Viecente Fox is a criminal.

Try one month ago.

That's not whining, Corky. I was explaining the facts to you. Read Arlos' posts to see the definition of "whining" in action.

[Lyion]

Sounds like some hypocrisy there, Mindia.

What exactly do you do for a living, and how much do you make? I'll be happy to compare your level of skill and income to mine as a Database Administrator if you'd like.

MCSEs were overpaid. Most other IT people were paid on par with white collar work. Outsourcing is not just the IT sector. Its accounting, medical, engineering, etc that we are losing.

Stop being so 'personally' insulted Mindia and look at the facts. Greedy corporations and special interests are hurting people. As a compassionate Christian you are looking out for your fellow man, correct? Even those unemployed whiner types, I would hope.

[Arlos]

There's a big difference between a low level IT guy and the kind of stuff I was doing. I actually have an MCSE, but I consider it by far the least important of my certifications. Did you miss the part where I talked about how I was team lead of a team of 3, who's sole responsibility was to keep the network running for an online conferencing company, WebEx, whose entire business WAS the network? We literally controlled the fate of a several hundred dollar a year business, and we did a damn good job. I'd like to see YOU keep a multi-homed set of routers, running BGP to 8 different providers over multiple T1s and T3s, using route reflectors and HSRP running smoothly, and troubleshoot connectivity problems of individuals throughout the world, with no access to THEIR networks. That's what we did.

You have absolutely no idea how much training, knowledge, learning and experience is necessary to be able to do a job like that. None. Any retarded monkey can sell insurance, if they didn't mind being a useless parasite on society. I must say, you've found a job that fits you well. Should try being a used car salesman next. Or maybe televangelist, where you can bilk old ladies out of their life savings in the name of Jeheeeezzuuus.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Sounds like some hypocrisy there, Mindia.

What exactly do you do for a living, and how much do you make? I'll be happy to compare your level of skill and income to mine as a Database Administrator if you'd like.

MCSEs were overpaid. Most other IT people were paid on par with white collar work. Outsourcing is not just the IT sector. Its accounting, medical, engineering, etc that we are losing.

Stop being so 'personally' insulted Mindia and look at the facts. Greedy corporations and special interests are hurting people. As a compassionate Christian you are looking out for your fellow man, correct? Even those unemployed whiner types, I would hope.

No hypocricy. I'm not whining, and I'm not complaining. I don't want to see anybody without a job. But to go pointing the finger at Microsoft as being the evil empire is just sheer stupidity. Also... Accountants, medical personnel, and engineers are still in very high demand in the U.S. Why did you bring that up?

The fact is, that I know how much education is required of IT people. I also know what their job entails. But for anybody to sit here and try to say, as an IT person, that they deserve a $60,000/yr. salary for the work they do is the laugher of the century. Those people (Arlos, Dammuzis,etc) are the ones who need to lighten up and not feel so victimized. They still have it good, and this is America... a place where you can make as much money as you want to if you're motivated enough to do it.

[Lyion]

Did you know engineers have one of the highest levels of unemployment in the country. Did you know firms are outsourcing ENTIRE accounting departments and laying off their workers? This is a fact.

India is opening medical facilities that do surgeries at a fraction of the cost here.

I work in IT, ya know. I guarantee you that even if you spent the next two years training, studying, and learning you couldn't tune a terrabyte transaction database or optimize a heavy peoplesoft finiancial system, Mindia. A DBA making 60k is underpaid. As he or she should be, given the complexity of the work we do and the level of skill required for mission critical data systems.

It sounds to me like you don't understand IT very well.