F Bill Gates

[Narrock]

There's a big difference between a low level IT guy and the kind of stuff I was doing. I actually have an MCSE, but I consider it by far the least important of my certifications. Did you miss the part where I talked about how I was team lead of a team of 3, who's sole responsibility was to keep the network running for an online conferencing company, WebEx, whose entire business WAS the network? We literally controlled the fate of a several hundred dollar a year business, and we did a damn good job. I'd like to see YOU keep a multi-homed set of routers, running BGP to 8 different providers over multiple T1s and T3s, using route reflectors and HSRP running smoothly, and troubleshoot connectivity problems of individuals throughout the world, with no access to THEIR networks. That's what we did.

You have absolutely no idea how much training, knowledge, learning and experience is necessary to be able to do a job like that. None. Any retarded monkey can sell insurance, if they didn't mind being a useless parasite on society. I must say, you've found a job that fits you well. Should try being a used car salesman next. Or maybe televangelist, where you can bilk old ladies out of their life savings in the name of Jeheeeezzuuus.

-Arlos

I don't sell insurance, fool. And any 'retarded monkey' can be an administrator of a network. You chose your career path. The reason why you are going to be outsourced is because there's a gazillion college graduates with the exact same degree and certificates you possess and it's driving your salary base down because there's so many people who are willing to do your same job for less money. It's called Economics 101 you ignoramus.

Oh, and btw... I bet used car salesmen make more money than you.

owned.

[Narrock]

Did you know engineers have one of the highest levels of unemployment in the country. Did you know firms are outsourcing ENTIRE accounting departments and laying off their workers? This is a fact.

India is opening medical facilities that do surgeries at a fraction of the cost here.

I work in IT, ya know. I guarantee you that even if you spent the next two years training, studying, and learning you couldn't tune a terrabyte transaction database or optimize a heavy peoplesoft finiancial system, Mindia. A DBA making 60k is underpaid. As he or she should be, given the complexity of the work we do and the level of skill required for mission critical data systems.

It sounds to me like you don't understand IT very well.

You mean like this? Or did I have it all wrong?

http://www.dbaclick.com/modules.php?op= ... le&sid=221

[Narrock]

Anyway, I'd love to stay and play, and own you some more, but I need to get ready for church. TTYL...

[Harrison]

I want changed to : mindia :

[Phlegm]

This article is from Associated Press:

BANGALORE, India (AP) - Computer-maker Dell will hire another 2,000 people by the end of the year to make India a hub for its software development and back-office work, its top executive said Friday.

``It has been a very exciting time here in India, running customer support and internal software development centers,'' Dell Inc. Chief Executive Kevin Rollins told reporters in Bangalore, India's technology hub.

Dell will increase its staff strength in India to 10,000 by January from nearly 8,000 at present, he said.

Less than two years ago, Round Rock, Texas-based Dell moved support for some customer calls back to the United States from Bangalore, citing ``customer complaints.''

On Friday, Rollins said the November 2003 decision was due to the company's internal management issues.

``Then, we were doing too much, too fast in too many places. We had to prioritize and refine,'' he said.

Scores of Western companies have been cutting costs by shifting software development, engineering design and routine office functions to countries such as India, where English-speaking workers are plentiful and wages are low.

Dell runs three call centers in India, a product testing center for corporate customers and a global software development center.

``Over time, our Indian operation has grown in technical complexity and so we are making it a center of competency for software and support,'' Rollins said.

Dell plans to open more offices in India to shift technology work and to tap India's growing computer market, he said.

``As we move to increase our revenues to $80 billion in three to four years' time, our growth will increasingly come from outside the U.S.,'' he said.

Dell employs a total of 53,000 people and its revenue reached $49.2 billion in the fiscal year ending in January 2005.

How many of you here own Dell products?

[Martrae]

Not me.

[Eziekial]

Me, and it was a great bargin! Every box has "Made in China" stamped on it and I could care less becuase, so far, it's been a quality product. If you can't do the job some Indian or Chinesse monkey can do faster and better, then you should not expect to keep it.

[Lyion]

Give it a try, Mindia. I can link how to become a Doctor asap, too. Its fine except nobody will hire you.

I bought a Dell a few years ago. Their rush to India sickens me, now.

[Diekan]

Jesus .... I spend time writting up something decent to be discussed and it gets hijacked by Mindia's stupidity... can we ban this guy for good?

[Gidan]

I would love to see a 'retarded monkey' come admin the networks that we have. The ISP I work for has actually benefited from SBC and Verizon outsourcing to India. Their customers are canceling their accounts with them and switching to us because WE SPEAK ENGLISH. They dont need to talk to 15 people in India or The Philippines before they get high enough in the chain to speak with an american.

Outsourcing may look good on paper but it costs Americans jobs and pisses off the customers.

[Diabolik]

Jesus .... I spend time writting up something decent to be discussed and it gets hijacked by Mindia's stupidity... can we ban this guy for good?

[veeneedefeesh]

Jesus .... I spend time writting up something decent to be discussed and it gets hijacked by Mindia's stupidity... can we ban this guy for good?

[Arlos]

Mark me down as wholeheartedly voting for on Mindia.

-Arlos

[Drem]

Jesus .... I spend time writting up something decent to be discussed and it gets hijacked by Mindia's stupidity... can we ban this guy for good?

[exploit]

Have a rice day.

[Narrock]

I disagree with Mindia, therefore he's an idiot and doesn't know anything about anything... and I want him banned dammit.

[Diekan]

No, you just constantly make a fool of yourself with asinine comments and through your absolute refusal to accept the opinions of others. You are also notorious for being exceedingly hypocritical and completely missing “the point.”

Rather than trying to comprehend the point that is being made; you quickly jump on the single line “insult,” which just further proves to all of us that you in fact “don’t get it.”

Not more than a month ago you were raising holy hell about being “outsourced” from your chosen trade. Now… now you come here and condemn the IT people for being just as pissed as YOU were about the exportation of their jobs. Then you further “attempt” to add insult to injury by belittling their field. A field that you know absolutely NOTHING about, mind you.

YOU were outsourced. Your job may not have been sent overseas, but nonetheless you were in fact outsourced. So what’s the difference? What’s the difference between you being pushed out of your trade by foreigners who are willing to do the job for less and the IT guys who are being fired in favor of foreigners who are doing the job for less? Let’s see if you can answer this question without resorting to the typical Mindiaesque type “dodge and hide” retorts that we’ve all come to expect from you, when you find yourself cornered.

The point that we are all trying to make is that these companies, that are outsourcing, do not have to. They CAN afford to pay the wages demanded by the American worker without running the company into the ground.

Can you set aside your blind ignorance for more than a minute to think about it?

Read the exert posted by Phlegm. Which states that MS will be saving something on the order of 80 BILLION dollars over a period of a few years. EIGHTY BILLION. Ok, now do the math… Let’s say that MS pays all 53,000 of those employees 50 grand a year. What does that come out to? Roughly 2.5 billion. That’s something like a meager 3% of the revenue going to wages. THREE PERCENT. Do you realize how small that is for a company that makes plastic disks?

It’s greed… you know one of the sins God hates most. Remember that one? What we are saying is that these companies are selling us out for more profits on their side. The shareholders, the CEO’s, the board… all the people involved who are already filthy rich. And, they are getting more by sacrificing YOUR livelihood. These are people who live in the most expensive mansions in the country. Fly around in private jets. Squander twenty thousand an a single suit and tie. And, they are taking food out of our mouths so that they can have more.

Your support of these corporate “thieves” is why I in no way shape or form believe for a single solitary second that you are a true Christian. They are ruing the lives of hard working Americans to benefit themselves. So, just how “Christian” is that? And, would you, of all people, even consider such an atrocity a “good thing?”

As for you not having a clue about IT… well I’m not going to go into detail on that. I suspect by now you’ll have already given up on reading this post and have resorted to your typical “shutup whiner” response.

But, just in case you haven’t. I want you to answer another question, seriously.

Do you think that the contractor you spoke to in the club COULD have afforded to pay the wages of the American workers he’d need? Do you think he’d have gone broke if he had to fork out that “extra cash?” Or, do you believe that he was simply looking forward to pocketing more money for himself in the end?

[Narrock]

No, you just constantly make a fool of yourself with asinine comments and through your absolute refusal to accept the opinions of others. You are also notorious for being exceedingly hypocritical and completely missing “the point.”

Rather than trying to comprehend the point that is being made; you quickly jump on the single line “insult,” which just further proves to all of us that you in fact “don’t get it.”

Not more than a month ago you were raising holy hell about being “outsourced” from your chosen trade. Now… now you come here and condemn the IT people for being just as pissed as YOU were about the exportation of their jobs. Then you further “attempt” to add insult to injury by belittling their field. A field that you know absolutely NOTHING about, mind you.

YOU were outsourced. Your job may not have been sent overseas, but nonetheless you were in fact outsourced. So what’s the difference? What’s the difference between you being pushed out of your trade by foreigners who are willing to do the job for less and the IT guys who are being fired in favor of foreigners who are doing the job for less? Let’s see if you can answer this question without resorting to the typical Mindiaesque type “dodge and hide” retorts that we’ve all come to expect from you, when you find yourself cornered.

The point that we are all trying to make is that these companies, that are outsourcing, do not have to. They CAN afford to pay the wages demanded by the American worker without running the company into the ground.

Can you set aside your blind ignorance for more than a minute to think about it?

Read the exert posted by Phlegm. Which states that states MS will be saving something on the order of 80 BILLION dollars over a period of a few years. EIGHTY BILLION. Ok, now do the math… Let’s say that MS pays all 53,000 of those employees 50 grand a month. What does that come out to? Roughly 2.5 billion. That’s something like a meager 3% of the revenue going to wages. THREE PERCENT. Do you realize how small that is for a company that makes plastic disks?

It’s greed… you know one of the sins that God hates. Remember that one? What we are saying is that these companies are selling us out for more profits on their side. The shareholders, the CEO’s, the board… all the people involved who are already filthy rich. And, they are getting more by sacrificing YOUR livelihood. These are people who live in the most expensive mansions in the country. Fly around in private jets. Squander twenty thousand an a single suit and tie. And, they are taking food out of our mouths so that they can have more.

Your support of these corporate “thieves” is why I in no way shape or form believe for a single solitary second that you are a true Christian. They are ruing the lives of hard working Americans to benefit themselves. So, just how “Christian” is that? And, would you, of all people, even consider such an atrocity a “good thing?”
As for you not having a clue about IT… well I’m not going to go into detail on that. I suspect by now you’ll have already given up on reading this post and have resorted to your typical “shutup whiner” response.

But, just in case you haven’t. I want you to answer another question, seriously.

Do you think that the contractor you spoke to in the club COULD have afforded to pay the wages of the American workers he’d need? Do you think he’d have gone broke if he had to fork out that “extra cash?” Or, do you believe that he was simply looking forward to pocketing more money for himself in the end?

Why should I accept your opinions when you don't accept mine? Try to answer that in a non-smartass way. You can do it if you try.

[Lyion]

The problem is instead of always rationally discussing things, you feel personally insulted and begin to post in anger.

If you could stop posting when pissed off, it'd be good and provide decent debate. Some of us are similar in our belief structures, but the difference is we keep an even keel and do not go apeshit <often!>

[Martrae]

Or he could, just once, try posting in a clear concise non-biased, emotional or judgemental manner. It would make for a refreshing change.

Pretend you are an old-fashioned reporter....you know, when they used to try and report both sides and be fair to both.

[Arlos]

No, Mindia, it's not because we disagree with you. I disagree on most things with, say, Martrae, but do you see me posting asking her to be banned? Hell, many of the people on here disagree strongly with many of the other people on here. Yet you're the only one who continually gets brought up to the admins here as a ban target. Why is that, Mindia?

No, it has nothing to do with your "faith", though I'm with others, I think it's all a sham to get a rise out of people. Look at the discussion Donnel and I had in the recent abortion thread. He is very religious, and deeply committed to his faith, one I don't happen to agree with. Yet he and I were able to have a civil conversation about the topic, and were able to, you know, actually argue the ISSUES. Not once did he stoop to ad hominem attacks or just post a icon in response, he actually responded to my points and made counter arguments. I might not agree with them, but hey, I give him big props for actually discussing things like a rational human being. Something you have *NEVER* done in all your time here. Not once.

So yes, I am still fervently and whole-heartedly in support of you getting banned, for good this time.

-Arlos

[araby]

That icon *is* pretty broad you know...it could mean so many things. Mindia you need to be more specific about what you mean when you post poop.

[Narrock]

No, Mindia, it's not because we disagree with you. I disagree on most things with, say, Martrae, but do you see me posting asking her to be banned? Hell, many of the people on here disagree strongly with many of the other people on here. Yet you're the only one who continually gets brought up to the admins here as a ban target. Why is that, Mindia?

No, it has nothing to do with your "faith", though I'm with others, I think it's all a sham to get a rise out of people. Look at the discussion Donnel and I had in the recent abortion thread. He is very religious, and deeply committed to his faith, one I don't happen to agree with. Yet he and I were able to have a civil conversation about the topic, and were able to, you know, actually argue the ISSUES. Not once did he stoop to ad hominem attacks or just post a icon in response, he actually responded to my points and made counter arguments. I might not agree with them, but hey, I give him big props for actually discussing things like a rational human being. Something you have *NEVER* done in all your time here. Not once.

So yes, I am still fervently and whole-heartedly in support of you getting banned, for good this time.

-Arlos

Good luck with that

[Narrock]

That icon *is* pretty broad you know...it could mean so many things. Mindia you need to be more specific about what you mean when you post poop.

yeah i know... my bad. Just take it as that poster's drivel (post) is tantamount to a steamy festering pile of dung. That's all.

[Narrock]

Or he could, just once, try posting in a clear concise non-biased, emotional or judgemental manner. It would make for a refreshing change.

Pretend you are an old-fashioned reporter....you know, when they used to try and report both sides and be fair to both.

It doesn't matter Martrae. Anything positive I say along the lines of Christianity and/or conservatism, conservative values, or creationism is met with swift opposition by liberal, big-bangist, atheists. There is no respect here anymore. If I see some respect towards me, then I will give it in return. However, I will not start that process. This board has a history, and has a membership of mostly people with a "leftist" point of view. I see a lot of immaturity, inexperience, and frankly... ignorance being posted here. But, if they want to start playing the dignity and respect game... I'm game. I just need them to make the first move... otherwise, no dice.