Ugh

[Narrock]

Mindia what are your thoughts on the recent study stating that gay mens brain functions are different than strait mens?

Immaterial.

[Gidan]

The reason this is such a huge deal is because "Civil unions" are state to state. "Marriage" is federal. If you are in a civil union in say New Hampshire and more to say North Carolina, you lose your benefits of that uniuon because the new state will not recognise it. If your married and move the new state is obligated to honor that marrage even if under that states laws, you would not ahve been allowed to marry.

For example, your 18 and get married in Kansas. You move to Mississipppi, they are required to recognise you as married even though in that state you would not have been allowed to marry until you were 21.

The real question is why is is such a big deal to not allow it? Allowing gays to get married will not ruine the institution of marriage in this country, the view of marriage in this country is so low it doesn't matter (50% divorce rate). No one is forcing people who are against gays for whatever reason they choose to be to get married to a gay person. Gay marriage has no effect on those who dont like it. Its just another way for people to dictate how others should live their lives. Who they should like, what they should like and who they should spend their lives with. Allowing gays to get married will not hurt this country, it wwould be another example as to why this is the greatest country in the world to live in.

As far as I am concerned, 2 thumbs up for Cali. They had as open enough mind to realize how insane the idea of amening the constitution is for this issue.

[Jimmy Durante]

I'm staying out of this debate, but as to why same-sex marriage is an issue:

Ballot measures to ban same-sex marriage are widely expected to attract some of the estimated 4 million conservative Christians who did not vote in the 2000 election — a top priority of Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove. Activists involved in the drive to put same-sex marriage on the ballot say Bush will be a beneficiary. "I believe that the issue could decide the election for him here," says Gary Glenn, a leader of the drive to ban same-sex unions in Michigan.

[brinstar]

what? you mean bush played on people's phobias just to get votes? NOOOO!

[Harrison]

The article Mop is referring to:

WASHINGTON - The sexual area of a gay man's brain works a lot like that of a woman when exposed to a particular stimulus, researchers say.

In an experiment, men and heterosexual women sniffed a chemical from the male hormone testosterone. The homosexual men's brains responded differently from those of heterosexual males, and in a similar way to the women's brains.

"It is one more piece of evidence ... that is showing that sexual orientation is not all learned," said Sandra Witelson, an expert on brain anatomy and sexual orientation at the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada.

Witelson, who was not part of the research team, said the findings clearly show a biological involvement in sexual orientation.

The study, published in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences, was done by researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

They exposed heterosexual men and women and homosexual men to chemicals derived from male and female sex hormones. These chemicals are thought to be pheromones — molecules known to trigger responses such as defense and sex in many animals.

Whether humans respond to pheromones has been debated, although in 2000 American researchers reported finding a gene that they believe directs a human pheromone receptor in the nose.

The brains of different groups responded similarly to ordinary odors such as lavender, but differed in their response to the chemicals thought to be pheromones, lead researcher Ivanka Savic said.

The Swedish researchers divided 36 subjects into three groups — heterosexual men, heterosexual women and homosexual men. They studied the brain response to sniffing the chemicals, using PET scans. All the subjects were healthy, unmedicated, right-handed and
HIV-negative.

When they sniffed scents like cedar or lavender, all of the subjects' brains reacted only in the olfactory region that handles smells.

But when confronted by a chemical from testosterone, the male hormone, portions of the brains active in sexual activity were activated in straight women and in gay men, but not in straight men, the researchers found.

The response in gay men and straight women was concentrated in the hypothalamus with a maximum in the preoptic area that is active in hormonal and sensory responses necessary for sexual behavior, the researchers said.

When the female hormone estrogen was used, there was only a response in the olfactory portion of the brains of straight women. Homosexual men had their primary response also in the olfactory area, with a very small reaction in the hypothalamus, while heterosexual men responded strongly in the reproductive region of the brain.

Savic said the group is also doing a study involving homosexual women, but those results are not yet complete.

In a separate study looking at response to body odors, researchers in Philadelphia found sharp differences between gay and straight men and women.

"Our findings support the contention that gender preference has a biological component that is reflected in both the production of different body odors and in the perception of and response to body odors," said neuroscientist Charles Wysocki, who led the study.

It's hard to see how a simple choice to be gay or lesbian would influence the production of body odor, he said.

Wysocki's team at the Monell Chemical Senses Center studied the response of 82 heterosexual and homosexual men and heterosexual and homosexual women to the odors of underarm sweat collected from 24 donors of varied gender and sexual orientation.

They found that gay men differed from heterosexual men and women and from lesbian women, both in terms of which body odors gay men preferred and how their own body odors were regarded by the other groups.

Gay men preferred odors from gay men, while odors from gay men were the least preferred by heterosexual men and women and by lesbian women in the study. Their findings, released Monday, are to be published in the journal Psychological Science in September.

The Swedish research was funded by the Swedish Medical Research Council, the Karolinska Institute and the Magnus Bergvall Foundation. Wysocki's research was supported by the Monell Center.

Now they just need to find a way to fix them.

[Yamori]

When gay marriage becomes reality, I wonder if any straight dudes will get hitched just to leech of one another's insurance policies. Thatd be hot. :d

[Diabolik]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

[Narrock]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

[Gidan]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

So did you have the same feelings when Clinton was impeached even though the majority of the people in this country didn't think he should? Americal belongs to the people not the politicians.

[brinstar]

mindia you were one of Them before you decided to become a religious zealot, i'd say it's not your state anymore

[Diabolik]

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

Doesn't belong to a handful of ignorant protesting bible humpzors playing on people's deep-seated homophobia, either.

[Narrock]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

So did you have the same feelings when Clinton was impeached even though the majority of the people in this country didn't think he should? Americal belongs to the people not the politicians.

Where are you getting your info from? It was my understanding that most Americans were pissed off at Clinton for not only doing what he did in the Oval office with Monica Lewinsky, but lying about it under oath, and so most people did in fact want Clinton impeached.

[Narrock]

mindia you were one of Them before you decided to become a religious zealot, i'd say it's not your state anymore

I'm not a zealot, just a believer in Christ. Zealots would be people like David Korresh, Jim Jones, etc. I'm an in no way anywhere near in that same category.

[Narrock]

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

Doesn't belong to a handful of ignorant protesting bible humpzors playing on people's deep-seated homophobia, either.

That's just stupid, Diabolik. Also, take some English writing classes from your shack-up lover.

[Diabolik]

LIES.

[Gidan]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

So did you have the same feelings when Clinton was impeached even though the majority of the people in this country didn't think he should? Americal belongs to the people not the politicians.

Where are you getting your info from? It was my understanding that most Americans were pissed off at Clinton for not only doing what he did in the Oval office with Monica Lewinsky, but lying about it under oath, and so most people did in fact want Clinton impeached.

Be warned that the formatting here was in html, so its going to suck. All values are in %. WARNING changes have been made for the purpose of formatting, no values were changed. Moved dates around to match up with values since they dont line up well.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. December 19-20, 1998.

"As you may know, the House of Representatives has voted to impeach Bill Clinton. Next the Senate will hold a trial to decide whether or not Clinton should be removed from office. First, do you approve or disapprove of the House vote to impeach Clinton?"
Approve 40
Disapprove 59
No opinion 1

ABC News Poll. December 16, 1998.

"As you may know, the House of Representatives is expected to vote soon on whether or not to impeach Bill Clinton. If the House impeaches him, the Senate will hold a trial to decide whether or not Clinton should be removed from office. Based on what you know, do you think the House should or should not impeach Clinton?"
Should 40
Should not 58
No opinion 2

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. December 12-13, 1998.
ABC News Poll. December 11, 1998.

"As you may know, the House Judiciary Committee in Congress has voted to recommend that the full House impeach Clinton. Do you support or oppose the committee's vote to recommend impeachment?"
Dates 12/12-13/98 - 12/11/98
Support 41 43
Oppose 58 55
No opinion 1 2

ABC News and The Washington Post
"Based on what you know, do you think Congress should or should not impeach Clinton and remove him from office?"
Dates 12/2-6 - 11/20-22 - 10/29 -11/1- 10/22-25 - 10/15-18 - 10/8-10
Should 33 30 27 29 29 31
Should not 64 66 71 66 68 64
No opinion 3 4 2 5 3 4

CBS News/New York Times Poll. December 19-20, 1998. N=1,341 adults nationwide who had also been polled December 13-15 & 17..

"Given what you know right now, do you think it would be better for the country if Bill Clinton resigned from office, or do you think it would be better for the country if Bill Clinton finished his term as president?"
Resigned 31
Finished term 66
Don't know/No answer 3

CBS News Poll. December 18, 1998.
"The House is likely to vote on the four articles of impeachment tomorrow. When the full U.S. House of Representatives votes on whether or not to impeach President Clinton, do you want your representative to vote for or against impeachment?"
For 38
Against 58
Don't know/No answer 4

BS News/New York Times Poll. December 13-15, 1998.
"This week, the full U.S. House of Representatives is scheduled to vote on whether or not to impeach President Clinton. When the full House votes, do you want your representative to vote for or against impeachment?"
For 33
Against 62
Don't know/No answer 5

CNN/Time Poll conducted by Yankelovich Partners. December 17-18, 1998.
"As you probably know, the House of Representatives is considering a resolution to impeach President Clinton. If the majority of the House votes for impeachment, the Senate would have to decide whether Clinton is guilty and should be removed from office. Based on what you know, do you think the House should vote for or against the impeachment of Bill Clinton?"
For impeachment 37
Against impeachment 61
Not sure 2

Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll
"Now thinking about the action taken by the House of Representatives this weekend, do you approve or disapprove of the House decision to vote in favor of impeaching Clinton and sending the case to the Senate for trial?"
Date - Approve - Disapprove - NoOpinion
12/19-20/98 - 35 - 63 - 2

Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll
"What would you want your member of the House of Representatives to do: vote in favor of impeaching Clinton and sending the case to the Senate for trial, OR, vote against impeachment of Clinton?"
Date - Vote In Favor - Vote Against - No Opinion
12/15-16/98 - 36 - 62 - 2
12/12-13/98 - 38 - 59 - 3
12/4-6/98 - 32 - 66 - 2
11/20-22/98 - 33 - 64 - 3
11/13-15/98 - 31 - 66 - 3
10/23-25/98 - 33 - 61 - 6
10/9-12/98 - 34 - 62 - 4

Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll
"As you may know, the House Judiciary Committee is holding hearings on whether to recommend impeachment of Bill Clinton to the full House of Representatives. In your view, should the House Judiciary Committee vote for or against impeachment?"
Date - 12/11/98 - 12/10/98 - 12/9/98 - 12/8/98
For 37 - 34 - 34 - 34
Against 58 - 63 - 61 - 59
No opinion 5 - 3 - 5 - 7

Gallup/CNN/USA Today Poll
"Based on what you know at this point, do you think that Bill Clinton should or should not be impeached and removed from office?"
Date - Should Be - Should Not Be - No Opinion
10/6-7/98 - 32 - 65 - 3
9/23-24/98 - 29 - 68 - 3
9/21/98 - 32 - 66 - 2
9/20/98 - 35 - 60 - 5
9/13/98 - 31 - 66 - 3
9/11-12/98 - 30 - 64 - 6
9/10/98 - 31 - 63 - 6
8/21-23/98 - 29 - 67 - 4
8/18/98 - 26 - 70 - 4
8/17/98 - 25 - 69 - 6
8/10-12/98 - 20 - 76 - 4
8/7-8/98 - 23 - 75 - 2
6/5-7/98 - 19 - 77 - 4

Should I continue with more?

[Captain Insano]

Look at your awesome supporters:
<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/408,http%3A%2F%2Fus.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fap%2F20050511%2Fcapt.nckt10205110903.gay_marriage_nckt102.jpg?v=1">

MORANS

LAFFO look a picture of *christians* judging others. YOU DON'T SEE THAT EVARYDAY!11.

[Spacewoman Spiff]

Well, I guess it could be correct if they meant that Jesus forgives sin but doesn't make exceptions for it...

But based on the person, I don't think that was the intent.

[Diabolik]

That's just stupid, Diabolik. Also, take some English writing classes from your shack-up lover.

Maybe I should get English writing lessons from Mr. 'Except', huh?

ps - my shack-up lover rocks.

pps - keep in mind... Mr. Except is the guy they <i>picked to make the sign</i>.

[Spacewoman Spiff]

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

Doesn't belong to a handful of ignorant protesting bible humpzors playing on people's deep-seated homophobia, either.

That's just stupid, Diabolik. Also, take some English writing classes from your shack-up lover.

Oh snap?

The whole -zors suffix thing disgusts me too, but you are on the internet, son.

[Gidan]

it draws attention away from the horrible condition our economy is in, the war in the middle east that is greatly profiting the oil companies and their EX VICE PRESIDENT WHO NOW IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, and the fact that we elected a man TWICE to the highest office in our country that cant even say the word nuclear (I think that if you can't pronounce it you shouldnt have any control over it) , and the fact that your personal rights have been almost completely eradicated under the patriot act, and the horribly wasteful institution that is homeland security and a host of other things that are being done right under your nose while you are worried about whether one buttfucker should be allowed to marry another buttfucker.

Gay marrige is not an issue, it is a diversion!

heres an idea - move to north carolina, join the rest of your klan buddies and live happily ever after

California belongs to the people, not a handful of ignorant activist politicians.

Also since you brought up will of the people. Lets recap the 2000 election.
Bush - 50,456,002 votes - 47.87%
Gore - 50,999,897 votes - 48.38%

I think the will of the people spoke there. But due to a system put in place by politicians. The will of the people was ignored.

[veeneedefeesh]

I wish I was cool enough to have a shack up lover like Diabolik...or could it be that he is a greaser?....damn wetbacks come here and take all the jobs, mooch off the system AND take all the decent shack-up lovers.... DOWN WITH THE GREASERS!!!

[Spacewoman Spiff]

No kidding, goddamn Mexican'ts!

[Arlos]

Woohoo! Mindia called me a moron! So much for no more ad hominem attacks, eh? Face it, Mindia, you have consistently shown yourself to be THE most prejudiced and bigoted person on this entire board. Your support of people like Michael Savage just further proves it. Did you even look at the list of hateful, bigoted and prejudiced quotes someone listed from him? And you come right after it to say what a great person he is and how much you're in complete agreement with him? Not that you're alone in this, such narrow-minded bigotry and hatred of anyone that doesn't believe exactly as you do is common in fundamentalist christian circles. Just look at what the cadets at the Air Force Academy were doing.

Now, back to the main point of the thread. You claim:

I have stated numerous times that I am all for domestic partnership benefits for homosexual couples, but that I do not support gay marriage.

If that is indeed the case, WHY exactly are you lambasting that vote? The vote IN NO WAY legalizes same-sex marriages. Not in the least. Shall I quote again what the constitutional amendment they voted against did?

committees of state lawmakers rejected a constitutional amendment that would ... strip away a long list of rights granted to domestic partners in recent years.

So, here we have a vote from the legislature AGAINST stripping away domestic partnership rights, that does NOT legalize gay marriage, yet you're so offended by it that you felt compelled to make a thread here slamming it. So, explain again how exactly you reconcile being for domestic partnership laws, when you come here slamming a vote that preserves them and does nothing whatsoever to legalize gay marriage? Wee bit contradictory, hmmm?

-Arlos

[veeneedefeesh]

***INC Mindia changing direction in order to make it look like he has more than 3 brain cells INC****