When should we use the military for compassionate causes?

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:08 am

Right now the government of Sudan is engaged in Genocide. Millions of people have been displaced. Entire villages have been razed. Estimates put the death toll at 200,000

The Sudanese goverment is preventing relief efforts and actually aiding the Janjaweed rebels who are en masse killing and raping.

It's easy sitting at home far away from this suffering and despair to ignore it. However what is occuring is nothing short of an African version of another holocaust.

When is it appropriate for us to use force for a mission of compassion like this? The UN Security council is ambivalent and will not get involved. Despite your personal opinions, the conflict in Iraq was based on National Defense. There is no imminent threat from Sudan. However, how do we sit by and allow so many to die, just because it doesn't effect us?

I'm disturbed we are doing and discussing so little in regards to Darfur. This seems the biggest current issue in the world, and the media and the government seems to be ignoring it.

Post by **Tossica** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:12 am

There is very little to gain financially in Sudan and unfortunately, most of our military is tied up right now. Maybe we'll get to it once Iraq is "liberated".

veeneedefeesh · Post by **veeneedefeesh** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:23 am

Isolationism rulz. Clean your own house before going into the maid service.

Graecus · Post by **Graecus** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:26 am

first time i have heard anything about it...mayb i should watch the news more

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:02 am

Something needs to be done but our people don't believe in the use of force anymore.

Let's send them some diplomats and speak it over for 10-15 years and see what happens.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:55 am

It hasn't been on the news as this has been going on since the mid-90s when the current regime came to power... nobody cares anymore.

Post by **Gidan** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:08 am

Whats going on over there is horrible. If the media were to jump all over it though, you would probably have a country split in 2. 1/2 the people saying we need to go in there and stop it, the other half saying we need to stay out of it.

The real question this brings up is; Should the US police the world? if so; Why the US?

I personally dont think this is somethign that the US and the US alone should address. I do beleive it should be addressed. It needs to be the UN that addresses it though. The US can not be the sole police of the world. For 1, we have a whole list of our own problems we need to deal with and 2, what direct business is it of the US's. It should be a concern of the world and not just of the US, and addressed by a representation of many nations and not just our own.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:12 am

Gidan wrote: I do beleive it should be addressed. It needs to be the UN that addresses it though.

Bwahahahah! It's still early, but that's the best line of the day so far.

Post by **Martrae** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:17 am

Just who do you think the UN turns to for their 'police' force. It's fine and dandy when the UN wants us to clean up the messes around the world but we're supposed to sit quietly in the corner until they whistle for us to do it.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:44 am

The problem is the UN Security council does not care. China and Russia could care less if Africa were wiped from the map, not to mention China buys oil from Sudan, and the Ruskies sell weapons to them. France does, but refuses ever to do anything The other Muslim countries are too busy listening to anti US and Israel propaganda to listen about real evils.

Right now the African Union has 3000 police protecting a region about the size of France right now, and the Sudanese government continues to impede help for the region.

There has to be a better answer.

Post by **Gidan** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:55 am

Then I repeat the question

Should the US police the world? if so; Why the US?

Are we the only people in the world who care if people are being mistreated by others?

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:58 am

lyion wrote:The problem is the UN Security council does not care. China and Russia could care less if Africa were wiped from the map, not to mention China buys oil from Sudan, and the Ruskies sell weapons to them. France does, but refuses ever to do anything The other Muslim countries are too busy listening to anti US and Israel propaganda to listen about real evils.

Right now the African Union has 3000 police protecting a region about the size of France right now, and the Sudanese government continues to impede help for the region.

There has to be a better answer.

Plus, where the U.N. does send troops there's been that whole 'slavery-child prostitute-rape" thing happening.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:14 am

Gidan wrote:Then I repeat the question

Should the US police the world? if so; Why the US?

Are we the only people in the world who care if people are being mistreated by others?

Forgive me if this makes me think of the parable of the good samaritan.

It'd be wonderful if others helped, but that really is irrelevent.

We should do it because it's the right thing to do.

Post by **Gidan** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:33 am

I actually would be in favor of going in. I feel the country as a whole would be split on it though. Isolationism is still a big issue.

I think based on a moral issue we should put it to a stop. Though it still brings up the question. Why do we feel that we should inforce our moral system on everyone else in the world.

At the same time, they may feel that their moral position is beter. The only thing that is different is we have the military strength to back up our poistion.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:34 am

Fuck France, and fuck the U.N. in its entirety.

We should go in and do something because it's exactly what needs to be done. We shouldn't need the approval of the rest of the world to do what is right and needs to be done.

To answer your question, yes, we should police the world. It is our world too. What happens on another corner of the planet will and does affect us.

Lastly, fuck the U.N. I fucking hate that corrupt piece of shit with all of my heart.

mappatazee · Post by **mappatazee** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:35 am

They don't have oil dude. Who the F cares.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:36 am

They fucking murder, rape, pillage and you think that in some way they have the possibility of being correct in their workings, no matter how remote?

:banghead:

That isn't imposing our morals on another people. That's going in and stopping the mass murdering of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. Hitler anyone?

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:38 am

mappatazee wrote:They don't have oil dude. Who the F cares.

When you have some intelligent thought process above that of a local teenager reading and wholly swallowing any media propoganda put on his plate, you may return to this discussion.

That was completely irrelevent to the conversation no matter how much you might think it is.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:41 am

Harrison wrote:Fuck France, and fuck the U.N. in its entirety.

We should go in and do something because it's exactly what needs to be done. We shouldn't need the approval of the rest of the world to do what is right and needs to be done.

To answer your question, yes, we should police the world. It is our world too. What happens on another corner of the planet will and does affect us.

Lastly, fuck the U.N. I fucking hate that corrupt piece of shit with all of my heart.

You don't get it do you?

As a whole, the US does not want to go.

-Adam

Post by **Gidan** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:43 am

Harrison wrote:They fucking murder, rape, pillage and you think that in some way they have the possibility of being correct in their workings, no matter how remote?

That isn't imposing our morals on another people. That's going in and stopping the mass murdering of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. Hitler anyone?

Hitler thought he had the high ground. He though he was doing good. In our history, the South thought they were in the right in the civil war. Today we would consider owning slaves to be horrible. It doesn't mena they didn't think they were right.

Dont take that as my being in support of him or whats going on now.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:45 am

mappatazee wrote:They don't have oil dude. Who the F cares.

I can't wait until we start tapping the rich reserves in Afghanistan! Or Somalia. Or how about Croatia, Bosnia, and Serbia?

mappatazee · Post by **mappatazee** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:47 am

Oh, then it must be because they're black and GW hates tar babies.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:47 am

You forgot Vietnam, and Korea!

mappatazee · Post by **mappatazee** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:49 am

Harrison wrote:You forgot Vietnam, and Korea!

Well they were commies. You HAVE to do something about that.

Wrath Child · Post by **Wrath Child** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:20 pm

Canada is bravely sending in her entire military force to deal with the genocide, so the point of this thread is now moot.