Gitmo logbook for prisoner proves mistreatment.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:03 pm

It's cool in the second season of 24 when Jack Bauer kills an imprisoned terrorist then cuts his head off with a hack-saw.

Themosticles · Post by **Themosticles** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:04 pm

That may be the extreme end of what he's saying. I think what he's getting at is that SOME journalists could do with a bit of responsibility training. Newsweek comes to mind as the latest example(there are probably more but we'll use this one). Regardless of the "retraction" the damage was already done. That is irresponsible journalism and stories like that cause a ton of trouble.

Zan, I remember that episode. Jack is hardcore and his daughter is amazingly beautiful.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:06 pm

I would have shut newsweek down. That was fucking ridiculous, people abuse their rights with impunity.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:07 pm

Yes, look at the HORRIBLE treatment over the period of 3 months

* Standing for prolonged periods (referred to as the Disneyland treatment)

* Shaving of facial hair

* Solitary confinement

* Pouring water on his head

* Poking a finger into his chest

* Removal of some clothing

* Being in the same room as attractive women

Of course, there is no true argument against the utmost of terror and nastiness we inflict on these people, the playing of Christina Aguilerra music.

The guy wetting his pants is a one time event, also, and not a technique. If you read the official documents you'd get a better understanding.

But no! I HATE the US and we are EVIL and treating people SO bad because of our imperialistic world domination plans!

Give me a fucking break.

Go watch some Al Qaeda lopping off body parts and get back to me, Arlos.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:10 pm

lyion wrote:Go watch some Al Qaeda lopping off body parts and get back to me, Arlos.

I really don't think you should be looking to their behavior as a borometer for yours.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:14 pm

Barometer

And it's perfectly acceptable to compare our techniques to that of theirs..seeing as that's who we're dealing with.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:17 pm

Harrison wrote:And it's perfectly acceptable to compare our techniques to that of theirs..seeing as that's who we're dealing with.

I'm glad you're fine with letting other people govern your behavior.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:18 pm

Comparison is not the same as Governing.

Post by **Arlos** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:19 pm

Indeed, since when are we gauging what is acceptible behavior based on the actions of terrorists?

This is EXACTLY the same stuff that happened at Abu Gharib. If you have no problem with this, you have no problem with what happened there. It's mistreatment of a prisoner, period. The sole difference here is Gitmo lacks an ugly chick with a leash.

The Germans in WW2 mistreated US prisoners, did we mistreat theirs? Did we mistreat Japanese prisoners? How about Vietnamese prisoners in that war, especially VC prisoners, which were equally terrorists and "enemy combatants" to the arab terrorists?

We are SUPPOSED to be the ones on the moral high ground. Any mistreatment of prisoners weakens our positions, and damages our standing throughout the world. While I agree that many terrorist groups don't need new ammunition to recruit more terrorists, it still doesn't help in the least to hand them some on a silver platter.

And sorry, Harrison. A free media is one that reports everything, even stuff that may be uncomfortable. That's been the basis of the media since the beginning of this country. You don't like it? Tough shit, move somewhere that doesn't allow freedom of the press.

-Arlos

Themosticles · Post by **Themosticles** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:22 pm

Freedom of the press is one thing (a good thing). Irresponsible miss-use of that freedom is a whole different thing.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:22 pm

Uncomfortable is the best term you can muster for outright dangerously damaging and untruthful for the sake of money and/or ratings?

Holy fuck...

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:24 pm

We only claim the moral high ground when it suits us apparently.

You know, like vetoing stem-cell research, urinating on the Koran, invading countries that pose no threat to us. That sort of thing.

Post by **Arlos** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:29 pm

Posting the actual logbook of the treatment of a specific prisoner is "Untruthful"? Uh, HOW exactly? Yet you're ranting against Time's publication... And gosh, gee, if they'd actually treated prisoners in a humane fashion, publication about their treatment wouldn't be damaging, now would it. Sorry, reporters' jobs are to report the truth. So sorry if it's not truth you happen to like.

-Arlos

Drem · Post by **Drem** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:29 pm

you forgot vetoing gay marriage, fyi

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:32 pm

Was commenting on the Newsweek incident

...nice blurt of stupidity though, it was awe inspiring.

Sorry, reporters' jobs are to report the truth.

That may be true in your utopia of blind ignorance, but in the real world it hasn't worked like that in a long, long time.

Tuggan · Post by **Tuggan** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:32 pm

we definately need more coverage on linsay lohans eating problems, and katie holmes converting to scientology. maybe some bullshit bout jacko. none of this real news thats actually important, or at least should be important to any american.

those of you condoning the mistreatment of these people are totally fucked up in my opinion, its against everything we claim to stand for.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:34 pm

Don't be absurd, Arlos. The treatment at Abu Ghraib crossed the line. The treatment at Gitmo does not.

It is valid US interrogation techniques. We are not randomly torturing people. We are using techniques to get information that is not nice, but gets the job done.

If we are at war issue #1 is protecting life. Our soldiers in harms way primarly. These things need to be done and we are not crossing the line.

Again, the guy wetting his pants is not a technique. Did you also read of us providing IVs to those who refused water?

And the WW2 argument is not a good one, as we mistreated MANY Japanese American citizens, who lived much worse and with less benefits than these Enemy Combatants have.

We are taking the moral highground. That does not mean we do not have proper protocols for extracting information, or that we should not use them.

I've had worse treatment in an afternoon at Cedar Point.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:41 pm

We should have given the prisoners nice brand new wicker baskets full of cobras for their birthdays.

Durck · Post by **Durck** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:45 pm

Arlos wrote:Lets see here:
The interrogation techniques included refusing al-Qahtani a bathroom break and forcing him to urinate in his pants.

standing for prolonged periods

isolation for as long as 30 days

removal of clothing

forced shaving of facial hair

interrogators began their sessions with al-Qahtani at midnight and awakened him with dripping water

Oh yes, so entirely humane. Forced nakedness, forced standing for hours, making him piss on himself and sit in it for hours, sleep deprivation combined with dumping water on him.... Oh yeah, lets treat ALL our prisoners like that, even in US prisons, since Lyion has dubbed it as completely humane!

-Arlos

Instead Arlos would use the "Uh Dunno" technique for interrogation.... we all know the one:

Interrogator: "Where is Osama?"

Terrorist: "Uh Dunno"

Interrogator: "Well Ok Then! NEXT..."

Jesus dude, we made someone pee in their pants, we played some Christina Arguilerra music (which I agree is cruel), and we offered them Fucking medical attention when they became dehydrated after REFUSING to drink water. And waaaah, we made them stay up late at nite.

What would Terrorists do? You know the ones, the ones that want to KILL US! What would they do? They would.... (Drum Roll Please)... CUT YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF AND AIR IT ON TV! That is torture dude, not this pussy shit we are pulling.

Get a grip. They want to kill us. Again...They want to kill us. And oh did I mention, THEY FUCKING WANT TO KILL US! And that will never change. I say, if it takes a little pee pee pants to make a man talk, more power to the interrogators.

P.S. Go read Just War Against Terror

Remember, tranquillitas ordinis, or ordinary civic peace, is the primary responsibility which a government must provide. Without secure civic order, none of the basic human goods that people aspire to can flourish. And a government will protect its people from internal anarchy and outward threats. And one of the greatest outward threats that Western nations face today comes from terrorists and fanatics, often associated with Islamic extremism.

Therefore, if we have to force information from radical extremists, to protect our country, then so be it. Or... would you rather wait until 2 more towers and 3000 people die again?

-Durck

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:46 pm

Mindia wrote:We should have given the prisoners nice brand new wicker baskets full of cobras for their birthdays.

I'm glad you believe in terrorism.

Post by **Arlos** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:32 pm

We are taking the moral highground.

Bullshit. Not when we're torturing people, or mistreating prisoners. Sorry you guys think it's justified. It's never justified to stoop to the level of the people we're fighting. Abu Gharib is *NO* different than Gitmo. There's just less photographs of Gitmo. Did you guys also miss the comments that they got BETTER results when they weren't engaging in such tactics? So the damage it's doing to our world standing means nothing to anyone?

So what's next? That mafia guy isn't talking? Lets torture him, too! Mafia kills people, it's justified! Where does it stop?

And the WW2 argument is not a good one, as we mistreated MANY Japanese American citizens, who lived much worse and with less benefits than these Enemy Combatants have.

I'm not defending the internment camps. But show me where we engaged in sleep deprivation on those in the camps, etc.

The more I hear about Gitmo, the more I believe the assessment of Amnesty International.

-Arlos

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:54 pm

Yes, torture those motherfuckers too. Murderers don't deserve mercy.

I'm sick of people defending criminals, rapists, murderers, terrorists, and mass murdering tyrants.

I hope they decapitate a member of your family, let's see how much you fucking defend them then.

brinstar · Post by **brinstar** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:59 pm

Harrison wrote:We do any more than that and you fuckers cry bloody murder.

War is not pretty, war isn't about candy rainbows and sunshine. Get over it.

why aren't you on the front lines then tough guy

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:00 pm

brinstar wrote:
Harrison wrote:We do any more than that and you fuckers cry bloody murder.

War is not pretty, war isn't about candy rainbows and sunshine. Get over it.

why aren't you on the front lines then tough guy

He's fighting his battles on Internet.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:04 pm

What in the flying fuck does me not being in the armed forces have to do with me being intelligent enough to know the difference between war and candyland?

You're smarter than that, don't be a retard.