Reading Rusts comment on surveys in another thread I thought about something. It is very rare that I talk to anyone who is okay with an abortion if it was thier child, even if they think it should be legal it's not something they would want. Some may just be giving lip service and in the right situation might change thier mind, I don't know for sure. I'd prefer if this doesn't turn into some heated debate, I'm really just curious.
So for those who like abortion being legal:
Are you for abortion on demand (no restrictions), or only in certain circumstances?
Would you ever be okay with an abortion if it was your own child (I'm aware that question shows bias since I didn't call it a fetus, sorry in advance :P )? If so what circumstances?
Abortion and You
Moderator: Dictators in Training
Abortion and You
Raymond S. Kraft wrote:The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.
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mappatazee
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I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to the subject of fetal development, so I can't give a firm answer. Part of me wants to say 3 to 5 months is a good cutoff date, but another part of me thinks it's wrong to say what a woman can or can't do with her own body. I probably lean towards the 3 to 5 month cutoff date I guess.
Ideally people should be responsible with sex, or if that fails, at least make up their minds on whether they want to be a parent very quickly. Early fetuses are just a potential life, not an actual one.
If I accidently got someone pregnant (which I highly doubt would happen, I'm basically asexual), I wouldn't have any hesitations about the woman getting an abortion if it was done quickly - I'd be quick to suggest it. It doesn't make any sense to "Punish Myself" for a mistake by ruining 18 years of my life and forcing another human being to be raised in a house where they probably wouldn't be loved. I'd probably make a lousy father, seeing as how I hate small kids and don't have much empathy for other people. That and I can't remember to take care of plants, let alone a little person. :P
Ideally people should be responsible with sex, or if that fails, at least make up their minds on whether they want to be a parent very quickly. Early fetuses are just a potential life, not an actual one.
If I accidently got someone pregnant (which I highly doubt would happen, I'm basically asexual), I wouldn't have any hesitations about the woman getting an abortion if it was done quickly - I'd be quick to suggest it. It doesn't make any sense to "Punish Myself" for a mistake by ruining 18 years of my life and forcing another human being to be raised in a house where they probably wouldn't be loved. I'd probably make a lousy father, seeing as how I hate small kids and don't have much empathy for other people. That and I can't remember to take care of plants, let alone a little person. :P
-Yamori
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
Yamori wrote:I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to the subject of fetal development, so I can't give a firm answer. Part of me wants to say 3 to 5 months is a good cutoff date, but another part of me thinks it's wrong to say what a woman can or can't do with her own body. I probably lean towards the 3 to 5 month cutoff date I guess.
Ideally people should be responsible with sex, or if that fails, at least make up their minds on whether they want to be a parent very quickly. Early fetuses are just a potential life, not an actual one.
If I accidently got someone pregnant (which I highly doubt would happen, I'm basically asexual), I wouldn't have any hesitations about the woman getting an abortion if it was done quickly - I'd be quick to suggest it. It doesn't make any sense to "Punish Myself" for a mistake by ruining 18 years of my life and forcing another human being to be raised in a house where they probably wouldn't be loved. I'd probably make a lousy father, seeing as how I hate small kids and don't have much empathy for other people. That and I can't remember to take care of plants, let alone a little person. :P
What would you do if the girl said, "Yamori, I'm pregnant and I just found out that I'm going to have twins, and I'm going to have them... congratulations daddy-to-be?"
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
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mappatazee
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Yamori wrote:(which I highly doubt would happen, I'm basically asexual),
Interesting. So do you ever get off?
And, yeah, if my girlfriend got pregnant I would definitely encourage abortion. Ultimately the decision is up to her though of course. She has said if she did get pregnant, she would abort. What's the figure these days? $500,000-$1,000,000 to get the kid grown up and out of the house?
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mappatazee
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What would you do if the girl said, "Yamori, I'm pregnant and I just found out that I'm going to have twins, and I'm going to have them... congratulations daddy-to-be?"
I'd do everything I could to persuade her otherwise, but if all else failed I'd take responsibility and try to be the best father I could, I guess. *shrug*
-Yamori
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
labbats wrote:I'm certain that if someone posts a brilliant point it will change everyone's mind who opposes them.
Not.
That was not the intent of my questions. I quit arguing or trying to change peoples minds on the issue a long time ago. No one is likely to change anyones mind about it, I am just genuinely curious.
Raymond S. Kraft wrote:The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.
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Darcler
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I'm for abortion. I think there should be a cut off date. First trimester. After that, you're stuck, or at least, not allowed to get a legal abortion.
And Yam, I hated little kids too. I would have NO part with them. Then I got pregnant and had my girl and I cant love someone more than I do her.
I dont get the question though...."Would you ever be okay with an abortion if it was your own child "
You mean, would I ever get an abortion? No. I am married with a child already. Plus, sooner I have the second one, the sooner they can scoop my innards out so I dont reproduce any more. There would be no point in not wanting another child, and we cant use the excuse "we arent ready to be parents"
Or do you mean, would I be ok if Hailey had an abortion? I honestly wouldnt mind. If SHE felt the need, and knew she was not ready to be a mother right then, I would support it. I cant rag on her about waiting until marriage, because I would be a flaming hypocrite.
I just dont think I get the question.
And Yam, I hated little kids too. I would have NO part with them. Then I got pregnant and had my girl and I cant love someone more than I do her.
I dont get the question though...."Would you ever be okay with an abortion if it was your own child "
You mean, would I ever get an abortion? No. I am married with a child already. Plus, sooner I have the second one, the sooner they can scoop my innards out so I dont reproduce any more. There would be no point in not wanting another child, and we cant use the excuse "we arent ready to be parents"
Or do you mean, would I be ok if Hailey had an abortion? I honestly wouldnt mind. If SHE felt the need, and knew she was not ready to be a mother right then, I would support it. I cant rag on her about waiting until marriage, because I would be a flaming hypocrite.
I just dont think I get the question.
Yamori is Morrisey!
P.S. I dated a couple girls who had abortions, and immediately they went into the "not marriage material" file. If they would have been my mistakes, then I would have let the woman decide and married/not married her. But dealing with that past choice is hard for the rest of your life.
P.S.S. I'm pro choice.
P.S. I dated a couple girls who had abortions, and immediately they went into the "not marriage material" file. If they would have been my mistakes, then I would have let the woman decide and married/not married her. But dealing with that past choice is hard for the rest of your life.
P.S.S. I'm pro choice.
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Wrath Child
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labbats wrote:Yamori is Morrisey!
P.S. I dated a couple girls who had abortions, and immediately they went into the "not marriage material" file. If they would have been my mistakes, then I would have let the woman decide and married/not married her. But dealing with that past choice is hard for the rest of your life.
P.S.S. I'm pro choice.
So it's OK to have an abortion, in your opinion. But if you do, you become some slutty piece of garbage in your eyes, therefore not worth time?
hntm s bac!
That's a shit way of saying it.
I think anyone can choose for themselves what they want to do with their body, however, I couldn't handle the choice and the extremeties they went to with it. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. But in my own defense, they weren't marriage material to begin with, before I ever knew about it. If my wife suddenly brought this up from her past, I would obviously deal with it, because I made a commitment and I love her. But I'd be damn pissed too that she didn't bring it up until now.
I think anyone can choose for themselves what they want to do with their body, however, I couldn't handle the choice and the extremeties they went to with it. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. But in my own defense, they weren't marriage material to begin with, before I ever knew about it. If my wife suddenly brought this up from her past, I would obviously deal with it, because I made a commitment and I love her. But I'd be damn pissed too that she didn't bring it up until now.
Darcler wrote:I just dont think I get the question.
You got it. I meant if it were your possible future child.
As far as being a flaming hypocrite... hehe I think all parents are or should be to a certain extent, at least in the context of learn from my mistakes. If nothing else Darcler I'd urge you to stress contraception. I'm not sure how old you are, but the world may have gotten a lot more dangerous since you were "young and stupid". Going from STD's that were pretty much treatable to ones that cause death I think absolutely gives parents the right... no the responsibility to be hypocrits.
Labbats I don't think it makes you a bad person, it's not really clear to me as to why you don't like the idea (not that I couldn't understand, just that you didn't elaborate as to the why you couldn't handle the choice). I'm sure some people take far more superficial things into consideration when looking for a husband or wife.
Raymond S. Kraft wrote:The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.
You have sex and get (or get a lady) pregnant then you should be forced to live with the consequences. It's to convenient for some folks to go out screw like rabbits and then just abort the "mistake"
Abortion IMO should only be considered in the event that carrying the baby to full term would seriously endanger the well being of the mother or if the mother was raped.
I believe it was Yamori who posted the following excerpt:
"It doesn't make any sense to "Punish Myself" for a mistake by ruining 18 years of my life and forcing another human being to be raised in a house where they probably wouldn't be loved."
I'm not singling you out for lashing or anything. Rather I picked this phrase due to the fact that the underlying sentiment is very prevalant today.
No need to punish yourself. There is always adoption. Many folks usually seem to forget that option as they would rather take the easy road out and not face the prospect of pregnancy and the stigma that may be attached (depends on your values and your family and friends) before and after the birth.
As you may have guessed I am not pro-choice (except with the above noted exceptions). I belive that it took 2 people to make that baby and that 2 people should be involved in the decision. By stating that because it is the womans body it is her right to choose is flawed, as that instantly removes the male from the process. It should be a mutual agreement (or disagreement as the case may be). But to basically end a life, because you don't want to face the consequences of your actions is lame.
Abortion IMO should only be considered in the event that carrying the baby to full term would seriously endanger the well being of the mother or if the mother was raped.
I believe it was Yamori who posted the following excerpt:
"It doesn't make any sense to "Punish Myself" for a mistake by ruining 18 years of my life and forcing another human being to be raised in a house where they probably wouldn't be loved."
I'm not singling you out for lashing or anything. Rather I picked this phrase due to the fact that the underlying sentiment is very prevalant today.
No need to punish yourself. There is always adoption. Many folks usually seem to forget that option as they would rather take the easy road out and not face the prospect of pregnancy and the stigma that may be attached (depends on your values and your family and friends) before and after the birth.
As you may have guessed I am not pro-choice (except with the above noted exceptions). I belive that it took 2 people to make that baby and that 2 people should be involved in the decision. By stating that because it is the womans body it is her right to choose is flawed, as that instantly removes the male from the process. It should be a mutual agreement (or disagreement as the case may be). But to basically end a life, because you don't want to face the consequences of your actions is lame.
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Spacewoman Spiff
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The Stem Cell Research Debate
I postulate that:
If abortion is legal, and
If a woman has this legal abortion, then
The aborted fetus will be dead.
Which leads into:
If this aborted fetus is already dead, and
Said aborted fetus has perfectly harvestable stem cells, then
There should be no real moral conundrum about harvesting them.
Also:
If stem cell research is the best way to research and cure many ailments, and
If there are perfectly good stem cells to be gotten by already aborted babies, then
It is a double waste of human life not to take advantage of that.
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The above is not at all impassioned opinion, just natural logic. Thoughts?
I postulate that:
If abortion is legal, and
If a woman has this legal abortion, then
The aborted fetus will be dead.
Which leads into:
If this aborted fetus is already dead, and
Said aborted fetus has perfectly harvestable stem cells, then
There should be no real moral conundrum about harvesting them.
Also:
If stem cell research is the best way to research and cure many ailments, and
If there are perfectly good stem cells to be gotten by already aborted babies, then
It is a double waste of human life not to take advantage of that.
----------------------------------------
The above is not at all impassioned opinion, just natural logic. Thoughts?
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mappatazee
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Vivalicious wrote:The Stem Cell Research Debate
I postulate that:
If abortion is legal, and
If a woman has this legal abortion, then
The aborted fetus will be dead.
Which leads into:
If this aborted fetus is already dead, and
Said aborted fetus has perfectly harvestable stem cells, then
There should be no real moral conundrum about harvesting them.
Also:
If stem cell research is the best way to research and cure many ailments, and
If there are perfectly good stem cells to be gotten by already aborted babies, then
It is a double waste of human life not to take advantage of that.
----------------------------------------
The above is not at all impassioned opinion, just natural logic. Thoughts?
Sounds good to me