Too fucked up for me to understand

[Tikker]

99% of the time I'd say that when someone wigs out while high/drunk/whatever they were predisposed to it, and the drug was just the trigger

[DESX]

Statistically, people engaging in the use of marijuana, graduate from high school at lower levels than those who do not use the drug. Marijuana effects also create problems in the workplace, at home and with friends. While many marijuana users believe they are able to cut back or quit, in the meantime marijuana effects include decay of moral beliefs, a shorter attention span, a decrease in social skills and appropriateness and a decrease in the value placed on family, friends and day-to-day responsibilities.

These marijuana effects may not appear to be extremely harmful in the beginning but marijuana does lead to and is done in conjunction with a battery of other illegal substances as well as alcohol.

[runamonk]

I hit someone in the arm when I was high....but it was because he farted on my foot.

See that's a perfectly legitimate reason to hit someone in the arm. My wife would do the same.

[runamonk]

No offense Mo, but Harrison was disagreeing with me. If you disagree with me and my point he did this partially due to illegal narcotics, than you agree with Harrison.

Your completetly fucked up in the head posting is yet another example of the problems people have with substances.

We do not need any logic for the drug war. The idiotic actions of the druggies is good enough for most people to realize how stupid it is and why it should be illegal.

What I want to know is what the fuck was he high on to do something like that? I've never heard of an yone on weed being violent to anything more than a bag of chips or maybe stealing a whole cake to eat by themselves.

You get someone on PCP or meth, that's where we can see the true violent tendencies.

Sorry not totally buying the story. I know this is the internet and what's said on the internet is always true but...

he could have gfotten a firecracker..i.e. weed mixed with PCP.

Nod that's totally true or mixed with some angeldust, I've seen that freak people out. Anything is possible.

He just be a fucking nutball too.

[runamonk]

Some guys are mean drunks, Vaelie. Some get weirded out when stoned.

A paranoid mean drunk is not a good combination. The guy could be nice when he isnt stoned and drunk, but a complete animal when he is.

Kahar, given everyone at the party was stoned, I doubt it was spiked. Just someone who freaked.

None of this is new to me, I've personal experience with mean drunks. The only time I've seen people act really stupid when stoned is when on something other than the plain ol doobie/pot/etc.

Without knowing exactly what the guy had it's hard to say but weed alone wouldn't cause this, alcohol on the other hand has been known to make the asshole come out in alot of people.

[alezrik]

http://www.kcba.org/druglaw/pdf/Effecti ... ontrol.pdf

is a great explaination of drug laws, and why they really do need to be changed. The history of how drug laws were introduced into america alone should be read.

imo, every single drug should be legalized, it should not be the government saying what 'free' people can and cannot do to themselves, however those people had best be responsible, for I think that crimes commited under the influence should have 2-3times the penalty.

Drugs should never be an excuse or thought of as a reason for someone's inability to avoid getting too stoned and makeing dumb choices.

[runamonk]

Statistically, people engaging in the use of marijuana, graduate from high school at lower levels than those who do not use the drug. Marijuana effects also create problems in the workplace, at home and with friends. While many marijuana users believe they are able to cut back or quit, in the meantime marijuana effects include decay of moral beliefs, a shorter attention span, a decrease in social skills and appropriateness and a decrease in the value placed on family, friends and day-to-day responsibilities.

These marijuana effects may not appear to be extremely harmful in the beginning but marijuana does lead to and is done in conjunction with a battery of other illegal substances as well as alcohol.

Pure and total propaganda. The exact same can be said for alcohol. Just like anything when abused (for instance playing EQ 24/7 hehe).

[kaharthemad]

Some guys are mean drunks, Vaelie. Some get weirded out when stoned.

A paranoid mean drunk is not a good combination. The guy could be nice when he isnt stoned and drunk, but a complete animal when he is.

Kahar, given everyone at the party was stoned, I doubt it was spiked. Just someone who freaked.

point taken. imagine 20 people all at the smae party on a PCPC/pot cocktail?

[Drem]

don't even bother with 'em, vaelie. you can't talk sense into most people that don't smoke. no one is smart enough to admit that any drug is safe if it's not abused. yunno, not like cocaine or opium or almost all illicit drugs started out in pharmacies, or anything. the problem is people, not drugs.

i'd make a huge wager that 70% of what's legal right now will be different by the end of this century. i mean, at the beginning of last century they were still using cocaine as an anesthetic for eye surgery and putting it in lozenges and packs of gum and wine and soda.

[kaharthemad]

The most it can be said for pot is Hostess stocks will be on the rise 2 days after it is legalized.

Do I think it is damaging to my body? yup. Why? Cause I used to bake my brain on it as well, and frankly after I stopped using it I could tell my brain functions were 100 percent better than what they were when I was on it. Took a month or so to get the shit out of my system, however.

Do I condone pot use? Nope. Frankly if my kid ever uses it, it will be the last time he sees the light of day till he is old enough to move out of the house.

Do I think drugs should be legalized? Yes I do. For some good reasons. If we legalize it we can tax it. The drug dealers on the street corner would be out of a business, since they most likely could get it from the gumint for cheaper. The Junkies for the first time in thier lives will start toting their share of the taxes in this county. We can make sure that the people buying this shit are buying what they get not some junk cut with decon from Ed the crack dealer.

[Markarado]

With all of the evidence pointing at alcohol causing violence I find it funny how everyone uses this as a chance to flame the idea of legalizing marijuana. Marijuana doesn't cause people to become violent, and it doesn't leave you impaired in the way that alcohol does. The only way it could is if here were a beginner, and if that were the case he wouldn't have it in him to do this.

There are plenty of other drugs that could cause someone to go nuts like this. It's also very possible that he smoked marijauna that was laced with sometihng else.

[runamonk]

Some guys are mean drunks, Vaelie. Some get weirded out when stoned.

A paranoid mean drunk is not a good combination. The guy could be nice when he isnt stoned and drunk, but a complete animal when he is.

Kahar, given everyone at the party was stoned, I doubt it was spiked. Just someone who freaked.

point taken. imagine 20 people all at the smae party on a PCPC/pot cocktail?

Would be one crazy night for sure.

[runamonk]

Anything can be done in moderation but by the same token (no pun intended) it can be seriously abused. This goes with more than just drugs and alcohol. We (humans) tend to take alot of things to the extreme so when we really like something we really tend to do it alot. This doesn't stop just because it's illegal. I'm totally for taxing the shit out of drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. These things in general are not good for you but some are allowed. If cigarettes can stay on the market and be perfectly legal then why not everything else so long as it's controlled and taxed in the same fashion as booze?

Has anyone here honestly ever been so messed up on anything that you would try and kill or rape someone? Have you ever lost control and I don't mean just loosing control and doing something you consider to be adventerous sexually.

Probably not, it doesn't make you crazy for a day it just lowers your inhibitions and if you're a nutjob inside you're a nutjob inside.

My Dad and my step father were both total drunks. They would be happy as can be and then BAM turn on ya in an instant -- the difference is they would do that sober but it took a little bit longer to piss them off to that point.

[Arlos]

On the taxing the illegal drug issue, in some research I did I found that the estimation was that between the new income from taxing the drugs that are currently illegal, along with the drastic drop in spending for the DEA and similar anti-narcotic government agencies, we could see a net swing of > $200 billion a year. That's not even counting the savings we'd get by freeing all the people in jail for drug possession, etc. (how much per year does it cost to keep someone in jail? How many are in for possession, etc? Do the math)

Think about how many other crimes could be better pursued if local police agencies could go after actual serous crimes, instead of going after drug users. Think of how much we could improve health care and education in the country if we dedicate some of the yearly savings there, etc. Yes, there would need to be serious laws about crimes comitted while under the influence, or for driving under the influence. IMO, any crime comitted while under the influence should be counted as premeditated and receive much harsher penalties. Add in mandatory jail time, at least 3-6months on a first offense, for any DUI case, regardless of what drug (alcohol, pot, speed, ecstasy, anything) someone is under the influence of.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Harsher penalties wouldn't prevent the millions of deaths that would result from legalizing narcotics.

Oh you killed a family of 5 after driving drunk? Ok, go to jail, naughty naughty boy you.

Did that save the family? Fuck no.

[runamonk]

Harsher penalties wouldn't prevent the millions of deaths that would result from legalizing narcotics.

Oh you killed a family of 5 after driving drunk? Ok, go to jail, naughty naughty boy you.

Did that save the family? Fuck no.

So what do you think should happen? Instead of just giving a pointless comment why not put something into the conversation, I know you have a Taxx-like bug up your ass for the past few months but I also know you can speak intelligently. So what would you do?

[KILL]

Millions of deaths?
Do the parts of Europe where drugs are legal support your statistics?



Driving drunk? Yep. Bad idea.



What the hell is your point?

[Narrock]

no one is smart enough to admit that any drug is safe if it's not abused.

And to think... an admin actually named a forum after this dumbshit.

[Drem]

weak

[Yamori]

IMO, any crime comitted while under the influence should be counted as premeditated and receive much harsher penalties. Add in mandatory jail time, at least 3-6months on a first offense, for any DUI case, regardless of what drug (alcohol, pot, speed, ecstasy, anything) someone is under the influence of.

I guess I'd be in favor of this (at least for more significant crimes... not for small stuff which obviously shouldn't get several months), but how do you propose to test people for intoxication? There isn't a breathalizer for most drugs, and blood tests aren't accurate for indicating present intoxiation in a lot of cases.

[Lyion]

On the taxing the illegal drug issue, in some research I did I found that the estimation was that between the new income from taxing the drugs that are currently illegal, along with the drastic drop in spending for the DEA and similar anti-narcotic government agencies, we could see a net swing of > $200 billion a year. That's not even counting the savings we'd get by freeing all the people in jail for drug possession, etc. (how much per year does it cost to keep someone in jail? How many are in for possession, etc? Do the math)

Are you for legalizing cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, and opiates?

That's what it'd take to make that 200 billion in taxes a year, and realistically that 200 billion would become a negative number with the added costs to our infrastructure.

That isn't even bringing up the common sense argument in regards to those drugs and what they do to people.....

Mindia, respect peoples beliefs. Drem is a very intelligent dude and has strong opinions based on personal experiences. Be cool, man.

[Durck]

And what evidence do you have, Lyion that he was on pot? You have any evidence from any study anywhere that pot causes aggressive attitudes and behavioral changes? Gosh, I have NEVER heard of Alcohol causing people to become violent. Nope, never, not once, honest, really. How do you know he wasn't doing speed instead? People who take speed are described as being high. Even if he DID smoke pot, do you have one fraction of a shred of evidence that that was the contributing factor?

To me, this sounds entirely like alcohol-induced rage, just like you see when habitual drunks beat the crap out of their wife or children, or the asshole meatheads who get drunk at bars and then get into bar fights over trivial incidents without any real provocation. There are mountains of evidence that people can and do get uncontrollably violent while drunk. No other drug is necessary. Pot, on the other hand, causes people to get the munchies and zone out to the cartoon network. Gee, guess which one's legal?

I actually agree with Harrison here, the guy had a set of bad wiring, any substances he may have taken were irrelevant.

-Arlos

Your logic has always had me thoroughly convinced you were on Pot!

-Durck

[Narrock]

Mindia, respect peoples beliefs. Drem is a very intelligent dude and has strong opinions based on personal experiences. Be cool, man.

He may be an intelligent dude. I haven't seen any data here to support that, but whatever...

This, however, was not an intelligent comment, so I called him on it:

no one is smart enough to admit that any drug is safe if it's not abused.

That's one of those comments that is so unbelievably stupid that I can't believe he actually said it with any degree of seriousness. People have gotten heart attacks and strokes and DIED from using cocaine for the first time in their life. So, how does that tie in with Drem's "intelligent" comment?

[Lyion]

So bring up rational disputes and discuss them. As soon as you go from 'debate' to Ad hominem attacks your argument is immediately invalidated.

[runamonk]

And what evidence do you have, Lyion that he was on pot? You have any evidence from any study anywhere that pot causes aggressive attitudes and behavioral changes? Gosh, I have NEVER heard of Alcohol causing people to become violent. Nope, never, not once, honest, really. How do you know he wasn't doing speed instead? People who take speed are described as being high. Even if he DID smoke pot, do you have one fraction of a shred of evidence that that was the contributing factor?

To me, this sounds entirely like alcohol-induced rage, just like you see when habitual drunks beat the crap out of their wife or children, or the asshole meatheads who get drunk at bars and then get into bar fights over trivial incidents without any real provocation. There are mountains of evidence that people can and do get uncontrollably violent while drunk. No other drug is necessary. Pot, on the other hand, causes people to get the munchies and zone out to the cartoon network. Gee, guess which one's legal?

I actually agree with Harrison here, the guy had a set of bad wiring, any substances he may have taken were irrelevant.

-Arlos

Your logic has always had me thoroughly convinced you were on Pot!

-Durck

Always there with a helpful comment Durck. You two have had this dick wagging contest for years now haha.