Palmeiro suspended

[The Kizzy]

You said so yourself Mop. If you were in the majors, you wouldn't even drink coffee. Maybe the players should just ride this out, and stay away from stuff that is illegal. I suggest if they have asthma, they get their inhalors checked out before using them, or ask for some kind of clearance to be able to use them.

If they want to keep their jobs, then follow the rules.

[Lyion]

Do you understand baseball at all Kizzy and the complexity that is involved in hitting a baseball/ It is arguable that it is the hardest thing to do in sports for one - if you think he didnt make it to the majors on talent then
.

I'm sure Ken Caminiti was all talent. I'm sure Bonds suddenly became a homerun monster late career solely due to talent. We won't even examine Mcgwire or Giambi or the many, many other names.

Come on, Mop. You aren't seriously going to argue how juicing doesn't really help players? That's a silly argument and you know it. The simple truth is we really do not know, and baseball has just started monitoring this stuff.

You can argue what should and should not be allowed, and how things should be regulated but there is no doubt of the impact of performance enhancing drugs over the last 25 years.

[Langston]

I can attest to how manyly Xaiveir is - and the only thing he's high on is Love!

/swoon

[Xaiveir]

While i will not argue that steroids doesnt help, there is alot more to the simple fact that roids is not going to help you hit a ball better.

Roids is the difference of hitting a ball 400 ft compared to 395 ft. The damn thing was still going to go out. In baseball what roids does is help the body recover faster from the small injuries players acrue during a 162 game season.

Everyone has heard of the August swoon for hitters yes? What that is, is the body gets worn down for 4+ months playing 25 games a month. Roids allow the body to not have the let down. That is really about it (still unfair yes, but not as big of a difference as most people think).

What alot of people dont understand is that the majority of hitting a baseball is mental, and hand eye coordination. Both of wich roids do not help directly.

In Bond's case, I think that it was more the fact that he had Bobby Bonds and Willie Mays instructing him every day as to why he became a homerun monster. His swing is so perfect its rediculous. You dont be a career .300 hitter from Roids. His batting average as steadily increased throughout his career. You dont get almost 3,000 hits from Roids, you dont drive in over 1800 career RBI's from roids, you dont steal 506 career bags from Roids.

With Roids you see a person have acouple REALLY good years, then their body starts breaking down on them. Examples, Albert Bell, Brady Anderson, Ken Caminitti, Jose Canseco to name afew. Thats one difference with Bonds, he got better with age. While im certainly not saying Bonds did not do Roids, I do believe he did not take them knowingling and to the extent that a Mcgwire and Canseco did. Hell if i was Barry Bonds, i would be scared to death if my Dad (bobby Bonds) and Willie Mays (godfather) found out that i was knowingly using them. Talk about a whipping waiting to happen.

[Xaiveir]

I can attest to how manyly Xaiveir is - and the only thing he's high on is Love!

/swoon

/Moan


Answer your fucking PM ass.

[Xaiveir]

On the same day Palmeiro is suspended Bonds says he will not be playing in the 2005 season...I know they do different drug tests, but isn't this a coincidence.

Maybe he wasn't really injured this season, maybe it was something else that had to get out of his system...

Just a coincidence. This is the point in the season where if he is not back yet, whats the point of coming back. His team is 13 games below .500, he still has not yet started his baseball activities, and there is only a month left in the season. He measured risk and reward, and decided it was not worth it to play for a week. In a weeks playing time his knee might get injured again, and his career is done. Taking the rest of the year off, the offseason to recover 100 %, and he will be ready to assault the HR championship next year. Makes sense to me.

[Langston]

I can attest to how manyly Xaiveir is - and the only thing he's high on is Love!

/swoon

/Moan


Answer your fucking PM ass.

No one ever PMs me (except Mindia to divulge deep dark family secrets) so I rarely check them.

No love for me. /cry

[Lyion]

No, Steroids do a lot more than just a minor jump. Anyways, the pics do not lie

[Xaiveir]

Lyion you are talking of a picture of Bonds when he was 21, compared to when he was 38. No body could possibly change that much in 17 years, no way in hell without steroids. Bull shit man, people bulk up all the time naturally without roids man.

Here is some stats for you, he hit 16 homeruns his first year (110 games), 25,24,19,33,25,34, then 46 his first year with the Giants. His first 7 years in the league he was considered a power hitter.

Its a shame that when someone has a great career that there has to be something else that helped them do aside from hard work (Bonds has the most rigorous offseason workout of any player in baseball btw). Baseball will forever have a black mark because idiots think that roids is the only reason for inflated homerun totals.

[Langston]

Baseball will forever have a black mark because idiots think that roids is the only reason for inflated homerun totals.

McGuire didn't help dispel that manner of thinking.

[Xaiveir]

Baseball will forever have a black mark because idiots think that roids is the only reason for inflated homerun totals.

McGuire didn't help dispel that manner of thinking.

You are right he didnt help, but there are multiple other factors that did increase those numbers also, more than roids.

A difference between Mcgwire and Bonds...well acouple, first Mcgwire was a career .263 hitter compared to a .300 hitter by Bonds. Mcgwire never won a batting title with his best year of .312 for a full year (er almost full year 130 games), Bonds won batting titles. Aside from this year and 1 other year Bonds did not miss any prolonged periods of time due to injury. Mcgwire missed part of just about every year with some sort of injury. (Bonds injury was from being struck on the elbow).

The thing with using steroids for long a long period of time, the body just breaks down. Bonds has had a very healthy career, aside from having 3 surgeries on his knee this year (wich with proper care could have been avoided).

[Phlegm]

they should level the playing field and force everyone to take steroids.

[Xaiveir]

they should level the playing field and force everyone to take steroids.

I think MLB has done a good job with their substance policies. It will really crack down on players as it already has, major and minor league players.

[Phlegm]

This is the point in the season where if he is not back yet, whats the point of coming back. His team is 13 games below .500

But only like 5 or 6 games from the lead of their division.... go go NL west where below .500 gets you first place.

[Lyion]

Show me the PROOF X. You are stating your opinion. I'm stating mine.

Your opinion goes against what people have seen with Caminiti, Canseco, Bonds, Mcgwire, and others. Bonds was not a deep ball hitter until he suddenly packed on a bunch of muscle. Canseco never would of won an MVP, except for roids, IMO. Likewise Caminiti.

Roids hugely enhance your game and you are trying to say its no big deal. That's complete and total bullshit man. Your analysis of steroids is way off, too. Care to link some medical studies about that?

No doubt Bonds would be a good player without roids, but he wouldnt be the player he is now without them in my opinion and his HR hitting streak is a result of juice and thats what his legacy is from, whether you are blinded by it or not.

Roids are a big issue and your boys numbers are a result of juicing, period. Could he get near the same without them? No fuckin way.

[Phlegm]

McGuire was skinny fucker when he hit 49 homeruns in his rookie year. Check it out for yourself.

[Xaiveir]

Ok first Lyion never anywhere did i say that Roids are no big deal so dont put words in my mouth. What i said is i was against them, but they do less in baseball than people think they do. What you hear about is hitters taking roids and all of the sudden they can hit any pitch and crush it 500 feet. That is the perception that the public has through propaganda against Roids. Again i detest roids.

Second i wanted to say in my earlier post i was not calling you an idiot, i was calling the general public idiots. I wanted to make it clear that i was not pointing at you even though i was responding to a post of yours.

Third yes my opinion does go against what most people think about those listed players. I am not denying that roids helped those players to a degree, but i dont think it helped them as much as people are led to believe. If you notice home runs have increased due to MANY MANY different factors, not just roids. Roids has just been the explanation given that is widely accepted because there needs to be a cause, and its the easiest target. The public wants something to get pissed off at people that do great things. Movie stars, millionaires, sport stars all have to have something wrong with them to be interesting to the majority of the Public. Roids are the poster child for that.

You ask for scientific proof? Well there is no proof one way or another. You give me proof. All you can do is give me the "it makes you bigger and stronger" routine. Yes it does, but bigger and stronger does not make you a better hitter. What i am basing my opinion on is the simple fact that i have been around the game since i was 4, ive played at all levels, recreation, high school, college, semi pro, independant, and professional baseball.

My opinion is based on the fact that i have studied the "art" of hitting, i coach hitting, i coach baseball, i play baseball. I have been around athletes that used roids, i have teamates offer me roids, i have out performed athletes on roids. If you knew the mechanics of hitting you will know that roids arent going to help THAT MUCH. In alot of ways i feel it hinders a hitters performance.

With all the players mentioned they had great years and trailed off. Bonds has gotten better with age not worse. Every one of those players trailed off and they came into the league the same time as bonds. Bonds has outperformed all those players.

Bonds was one of the very first people tested, he is tested randomly. In the year he hit 73 he was tested 3 times randomly. He passed every time. He has emphatically denied knowingly using steroids, even before there was random testing and mandatory testing Bonds said bring it on.....test me. They did......negative result.

Again im not denying Bonds may have used something unkowingly, but it did not help him to the degree that people believe. The other factors are responsible for that.

Dont tell my my analysis is off man, because you are doing the same thing i am...speculating. I am basing my OPINION on the fact that i have been around baseball my entire life. I know how it directly effects baseball players and the results or lack there of they get from them.

[Malluas]

lyion barry was a hall of famer before his recent home run hittin.. and eventhen i saw a slide show showing each year.. he bulked up gradually. So you put him in for the 400 400 club or 500 500 club either way 1st in both only in both i believe also.

prob is steriods are used i would think by the older guys for injuries and gettin back faster.

Palmeiro isn't exactly the hulk.. but he has probably used them to get back from injury faster.


I don't even care anymore.. seein as THG and other things aren't detectable whats the point of having a policy. Thats the prob with baseball since they don't have the number of pot smokers like the NBA or NFL can't really catch anything for the most part.

[Xaiveir]

Only member of the 400/400 club and obviously the 500/500 club. Only 4 people have hit 300/300 ....1 is Barry Bonds....good trivia question here...who are the other 3?

[Malluas]

isn't ricky henderson one of them? i used to kno this hehe

[Xaiveir]

Negative on Ricky Henderson

[Langston]

Mays and Dawson... don't know the other.

[Xaiveir]

Damn not bad Ugzug. Willie Mays, and Andre Dawson are two of the other 3. Most people dont get the Dawson one. Who is the last one though.........

[Langston]

I cheated.

Bobby Bonds.

[Xaiveir]

Cheater..........