FSM advocates call for equal time in science classrooms

[Zanchief]

Sure Johnny, since you're already having sex, just be sure you wear these condoms we are passing out for free so you don't die of aids.

[Zanchief]

IMO, all public schools should utilize Dr. Laura philosophies. You don't teach children how to put on a condom, and that homosexuality is a viable option and all that crap. NO NO NO NO NO NO. HELL NO. You teach them the importance of abstinence, and the dangers of having sex like unwanted pregnancies and sexually-transmitted diseases THAT CAN KILL YOU, and that sex is reserved for an adult man and woman who are MARRIED. That is teaching responsibility and ethics. I wish my public schools would have taught us that when I was a kid.

They will laugh in your face. Another theoretic impractical conservative idea.

[Donnel]

Yeah I don't agree with that idea either. It's not the school responsibility to teach morals.

HOWEVER

Do you deny that they promote promiscuity? If you don't deny it, then my initial point stands: I don't like my tax dollars supporting it.

If you do deny it, then maybe we should talk about those blinders you have =P

[Zanchief]

They don't teach promiscuity.

[Donnel]

In your opinion of course, in mine they do.

Further clarification: I do not wish to change the public school system, for that is impossible. I merely wish for an alternative destination for my taxes.

[Gidan]

IMO, all public schools should utilize Dr. Laura philosophies. You don't teach children how to put on a condom, and that homosexuality is a viable option and all that crap. NO NO NO NO NO NO. HELL NO. You teach them the importance of abstinence, and the dangers of having sex like unwanted pregnancies and sexually-transmitted diseases THAT CAN KILL YOU, and that sex is reserved for an adult man and woman who are MARRIED. That is teaching responsibility and ethics. I wish my public schools would have taught us that when I was a kid.

That is not teaching Responsibility and ethics. That is teaching your religious and moral views.

Public school systems also do not teach promiscuity. They accept that kids are going to do stupid things matter how many times you tell them not to. No matter how many times you tell them what can happen to them. Why? Because kids just like many adults have the same mindset, "It wont happen to me." Our public school systems hands out condoms because they understand no matter how many times you tell them not to have sex they are going to do it, and the school system is assuring that tehy atleast have soem sort of protection becasue they understand that regardless of whether they hand out the condoms or not the kids are still going to have sex.

As for those places that allow minors to have abortions without the concent of their parents. You need to understand that many children do not share the same views as their parents on things. If a minor needed to have consent for an abortion, many cases the parent will refuse to allow it even though the minor does not share the parents views on the subject. Now I am sure some are going to jump all over this with they are the parents and they should make that call, think of it in these terms. A minor needs to have a medical treatment that will cure an ailment, if tehy do not get this treatment they will suffer for the rest of their life, tehy wont die but the rest of tehir lives will be effected by this. Now the minor wants this treatment but the parent says its against their religious beliefs (The parents mind you not the minors). Should that minor be refused that treatment becasue its against their parents religion, or should that minor be able to make up their own mind.

[veeneedefeesh]

IMO, all public schools should utilize Dr. Laura philosophies. You don't teach children how to put on a condom, and that homosexuality is a viable option and all that crap. NO NO NO NO NO NO. HELL NO. You teach them the importance of abstinence, and the dangers of having sex like unwanted pregnancies and sexually-transmitted diseases THAT CAN KILL YOU, and that sex is reserved for an adult man and woman who are MARRIED. That is teaching responsibility and ethics. I wish my public schools would have taught us that when I was a kid.

Just out of curiousity when is the last time YOU had sex Mindia? were you married at the time? More importantly were you married to the person you were having sex with? Did you marry the shitball girl? How well does abstinance work for you? Practice what you preach or STFUYSMF

This is also taking into consideration that you are an adult and not a raging ball of hormones that you were when you were a teenager. I remember when I was 16 I would have crawled ten miles over broken glass for a P.O.A. I didnt care that it was morally wrong, I didnt care that my parents advised against it. I didnt even care that I could have contracted a disease that could have altered my life (or even ended it) I had urges, biological urges that couldnt be turned off by logic or buried under some morality blanket. Kids are GOING to have sex whether you like it or not, the best you can hope for is that they will have enough sense not to get pregnant or contract a disease in the process.

Also take into consideration the innate teenager rebeliousness, the more you say something is wrong the more teenagers are going to want to do it (take for example alchohol and drug use) Now you could argue that the availability of drugs and alchohol have increased the usage from this generation to the last, and you are probably right, but everyone has sexual organs you can't cut them off then reattach them when they reach 18-21 so availability of sex is not something you can control.

As far as homosexuality I don't neccessarily approve of teaching it as a viable option, but I also don't approve of intolerance and ignorance which is the alternative. Keep your self righteous, ignorant, redneck views in the home where they belong thank you. Besides the evening news teaches them much more about homosexuality than they could possibly be learning in schools

[Donnel]

Gidan, that's not really my argument.

If they don't teach abstinance, monogomy and the sanctity of marriage, then they teach the opposite.

Do I expect them to teach these things, ever? NO!

Whether abortion is right in your eyes or wrong in mine is irrelavent to the fact that I have no choice in where my tax dollars are spent.

There should be alternatives or tax credits...actually never mind, I was going to say something else but realized the scope of it was far beyond just schools.

I still wish there was some alternative, though I see now it could never be.

[Narrock]

What is wrong about teaching morals to the kids? It's not impractical. I know it's not the school's responsibility, but what would be so wrong if teachers taught common universally-accepted morals to the children? It can't hurt them. When you pass out condoms and have a teacher stretch a condom over a cucumber in class in front of the kids, that is totally irresponsible. That promotes sexual behavior in the kids. Why not turn it all around? I bet that a case study afterward would show that pregnancies and STDs would be cut WAY down. I say give it a go. It can't hurt.

[Donnel]

common universally-accepted morals

This doesn't exist in the real world (tm).

[Jimmy Durante]

When you pass out condoms and have a teacher stretch a condom over a cucumber in class in front of the kids, that is totally irresponsible.

I agree. That is an entirely inappropriate way to treat a vegetable.

[Zanchief]

If they don't teach abstinance, monogomy and the sanctity of marriage, then they teach the opposite.

I'm not sure that's exactly what they're doing, but they shouldn't be "teaching" the opposite if they are.

You're implying that teaching kids how to use condoms is teaching them to have sex when they want how they want, when all it's really doing is teaching kids how to use a condom. If you’re doing your job as a parent your kids should already know they shouldn't be having sex at that age. But if they aren't then at least they hopefully won't be procreating more white-trash kids.

[Narrock]

Just out of curiousity when is the last time YOU had sex Mindia? were you married at the time? More importantly were you married to the person you were having sex with? Did you marry the shitball girl? How well does abstinance work for you? Practice what you preach or STFUYSMF

That's borderline trolling. Let's try to keep the conversaton civil without flinging offensive statements around.

Anyway to answer your question... you just made my point exactly. Although it was a personal choice, the reason for my former promiscuity may have been attributed to the public school system not teaching enough morals and responsibility. That's why I say... let's give it a shot.

[Donnel]

If they don't teach abstinance, monogomy and the sanctity of marriage, then they teach the opposite.

I'm not sure that's exactly what they're doing, but they shouldn't be "teaching" the opposite if they are.

You're implying that teaching kids how to use condoms is teaching them to have sex when they want how they want, when all it's really doing is teaching kids how to use a condom. If you’re doing your job as a parent your kids should already know they shouldn't be having sex at that age. But if they aren't then at least they hopefully won't be procreating more white-trash kids.

That's pretty much my idea yea.

See if all it was, was here's a condom, here's how you use it, etc., then that would be alot less offensive to me then it is. However sex is treated in today's society as an asset. Something to be used to get your own way. Something to be tossed around like it's nothing special.

Like I said, teachers shouldn't teach the "Christian" viewpoint either. I just wish for alternatives that can never happen.

[Zanchief]

That's pretty much my idea yea.

See if all it was, was here's a condom, here's how you use it, etc., then that would be alot less offensive to me then it is. However sex is treated in today's society as an asset. Something to be used to get your own way. Something to be tossed around like it's nothing special.

Like I said, teachers shouldn't teach the "Christian" viewpoint either. I just wish for alternatives that can never happen.

How is that the fault of public schools?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here we didn't have any fruity phallic presentations. Just the crappy video and off you go.

[Donnel]

Because the education starts early. Letting kids know it's okay to "do it" in the 6th grade. Desensitizing teens to it. It's not JUST the schools faulth, however like I've said the entire time, if alternatives were available for that very avenue, I'd support it.

I can turn off my TV if it gets raunchy. I can not go to a movie. However if I don't have the means to send my kids to a private school then I can't turn off their ears to what is being taught even though my tax dollars are paying for that very lesson.

That's where I find fault with the system

[10sun]

Just out of curiousity when is the last time YOU had sex Mindia? were you married at the time? More importantly were you married to the person you were having sex with? Did you marry the shitball girl? How well does abstinance work for you? Practice what you preach or STFUYSMF

That's borderline trolling. Let's try to keep the conversaton civil without flinging offensive statements around.

Anyway to answer your question... you just made my point exactly. Although it was a personal choice, the reason for my former promiscuity may have been attributed to the public school system not teaching enough morals and responsibility. That's why I say... let's give it a shot.

Don't try to blame the schools when your parents fucked up.

[Arlos]

Schools don't tell kids it's OK to "do it".

Sex education in schools should go something along these lines: 1) Explanation on a medical level how everything works. They may not care, they may laugh at it, but at least some of it will stick. 2) Explain, medically, how STDs work, so we cut down on the misconceptions, etc. of AIDS and other diseases. Follow up with as disturbing of pictures/movies as possible of victims of the diseases, to drive home the point that getting them is BAD. 3) Explain the risks of pregnancy, along with graphic pictures of birth happening etc, along with testimony from teen parents on how it screwed up their lives, again to scare them into doing everything they can to avoid getting pregnant. 4) Explanation that as teens they are too young to really be having sex, and they should wait til they are adults, but, since we know that regardless of what we say on that issue, teens are GOING to have sex, here is how to protect yourself from STDs and pregnancies. Explain about condoms, demonstrate proper use, etc.

The concept of promoting abstinance and expecting teenagers to universally refrain from sex, thus negating any need for educating about the dangers of it is pollyanism at its most outlandish. Teenagers are GOING to have sex, period. It's human nature, nothing we can say or do will change that. If you don't want YOUR kid having sex, it's not the job of the schools to force that upon them, it's your job as the parent.

I have always been a staunch opponent of vouchers, for a number of reasons. They mainly are a giveaway to rich families who already send their kids to private school, now they will get subsidized to do so. Most private schools that are that much better than public schools will still cost so much that vouchers will not cover all the costs, and so average families still won't be able to send their kids there. Also, at least in the system that was proposed in California, there was almost no oversight into what curriculums would be taught in voucher schools. By those laws you could have had KKK or Neo-Nazi aligned schools, and have them be funded with taxpayer money.

Actually, that would be unavoidable, really. Since the government is not allowed to give preference to one religion or belief creed, it would be unconstitutional to give out taxpayer money to christian, muslim or jewish schools and not give it out to Nazi schools, regardless of how foul and reprehensible I or most of society finds Nazi beliefs.

Lastly, every tax dollar going into the voucher system would be taken from the pocket of the public school system, which would still be used by a large percentage of students, likely from the poorer sections of society. How exactly is this system improving THEIR lot, if there's now a lot less money available to them?

No, vouchers are a horrible, horrible idea. Public money should never be given to any religious organization, regardless of creed. Religion is a private, personal matter, and it should be kept completely out of the public school system, as public schools are supposed to be equal to EVERYONE, regardless of faith or lack thereof. If you want your child brought up within a certain faith, that is your responsibility as the parent. Your personal desire to push that responsibility on to someone else does not count as a valid argument in favor of doing so.

Now, going back to the original topic, I am also dead-set against ID being taught in public schools. Why? Because it is *NOT* science, in any way, shape, or form. It is a statement of religious belief, period. As such, it has no place in our public school system. By all means, in the discussions of evolution in science class, teach them the scientific definition of the term "Theory", and explain that evolution is just the best workign theory we have to explain it, it doesn't mean it is "proved", and that there are some scientists who disagree with it, though, MOST scientists do agree with it, and it is the most widely-accepted explanation for how life works.

-Arlos

[Captain Insano]

Just out of curiousity when is the last time YOU had sex Mindia? were you married at the time? More importantly were you married to the person you were having sex with? Did you marry the shitball girl? How well does abstinance work for you? Practice what you preach or STFUYSMF

That's borderline trolling. Let's try to keep the conversaton civil without flinging offensive statements around.

Anyway to answer your question... you just made my point exactly. Although it was a personal choice, the reason for my former promiscuity may have been attributed to the public school system not teaching enough morals and responsibility. That's why I say... let's give it a shot.

Hey bro... back in the day people were getting married and fucking when they were 14. Why should people wait until their 20 to have fun?

Had I known better I would have started bangin sluts when I was 12 instead of waiting until I was 16.

Teaching kids about safe sex is way more important than teaching abstinence... because the reality is there are always going to be young players like myself convincing girls to unleash their inner slut. It's important that the players know how to use a jimmy, lest they get said slut pregnant and have to spend half their cheese on child support.

[Harrison]

Schools are for education (laugh) not to promote morality.

Parents need to do their fucking job is the problem.

[Eziekial]

Then why teach sex ed at all if it's the parents job like you say?

[Gidan]

Then why teach sex ed at all if it's the parents job like you say?

Becasue where in morality, there are different moral values from family to family based on so many different factors. The school system does not represent a specific moral system and thus should be trying to teach any specific moral system to the students.

No safe sex does not differer from place to place. There are ways to make sex safer and tehy are faily standard across the country. I will add that they do teach that the safest sex is not to have sex at all.

[Gidan]

What is wrong about teaching morals to the kids? It's not impractical. I know it's not the school's responsibility, but what would be so wrong if teachers taught common universally-accepted morals to the children? It can't hurt them. When you pass out condoms and have a teacher stretch a condom over a cucumber in class in front of the kids, that is totally irresponsible. That promotes sexual behavior in the kids. Why not turn it all around? I bet that a case study afterward would show that pregnancies and STDs would be cut WAY down. I say give it a go. It can't hurt.

You stated the exact problem with teaching morals in school though you may not realize it. There are no universally-accepted morals. Perfect example, you find passing out condoms and teaching them the children how they are used irresponsible, where many would say its extremely responsible becasue the parents who should be doing it arn't. It isn't promoting sexual behavior, it school systems being smart enough to know the kids are going to do what they want regardless of what the adults say.

So you want to teach morals in school, I assume you mean you was SDA Christian morals. What about all the people who had different morals?

[Gidan]

Just out of curiousity when is the last time YOU had sex Mindia? were you married at the time? More importantly were you married to the person you were having sex with? Did you marry the shitball girl? How well does abstinance work for you? Practice what you preach or STFUYSMF

That's borderline trolling. Let's try to keep the conversaton civil without flinging offensive statements around.

Anyway to answer your question... you just made my point exactly. Although it was a personal choice, the reason for my former promiscuity may have been attributed to the public school system not teaching enough morals and responsibility. That's why I say... let's give it a shot.

Dont plame the school system for your decisions. You made the choices not your teachers or the public school systems. You turned your own life around and I congradulate you for being able to make the major change in lifestyle. You were responsible for both the way you lived your life when you were young and the way you live you life now, not the public school system or your parents or anyone else.

[Narrock]

So, if the public school system teaches the importance of abstinence, pregnancy, STD's, etc. as a scare tactic, instead of showing them how to use a condom, where is the harm in that? By the way, you don't need to teach anybody how to use a condom. Even Ugzugz can probably figure that one out. Yes, it is ultimately the parent's responsibility to teach these values to the children, but I don't think it would hurt anybody to make it mandatory for children to learn what I just explained.