Italy's Red Cross Aided Insurgents in Exchange for Hostages

[Martrae]

From Associated Press

ROME — Italy's Red Cross treated four Iraq insurgents — with the knowledge of the Italian government — last year and hid them from U.S. forces in exchange for the freedom of two kidnapped aid workers, a top Italian Red Cross official said in an interview published Thursday.

Maurizio Scelli, chief of the Italian Red Cross, told the Turin newspaper La Stampa that he had kept the deal secret from U.S. officials, complying with "a nonnegotiable condition" imposed by Iraqi mediators who helped him secure the release of Simona Pari and Simona Torretta. The women were abducted in Baghdad on Sept. 7 and freed Sept. 28.

"The mediators asked us to save the lives of four alleged terrorists wanted by the Americans who were wounded in combat," Scelli was quoted as saying. "We hid them and brought them to Red Cross doctors, who operated on them."

The Red Cross workers took the wounded insurgents to a Baghdad hospital in a jeep and an ambulance, smuggling them through two U.S. checkpoints under blankets and boxes of medicine, Scelli said.

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

Scelli said he had informed Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government of the deal, and the decision to hide it from the U.S., through Gianni Letta, an undersecretary in charge of Italy's hostage crises in Iraq.

In a statement Thursday, the Italian government stopped short of denying that it knew about the deal. It said Scelli had acted independently and that the government "never conditioned or oriented his action, which … was developed in complete autonomy."

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack sidestepped questions on whether the United States had asked the Italian government for an explanation.

"Our views, the United States' policies with respect to negotiation with hostage-takers, are well known. We don't do it," McCormack said.

Opposition leaders called on the government to tell Parliament what really happened. They contended that the deal had endangered the Red Cross' neutrality.

The International Committee of the Red Cross said it was not involved in or informed of Scelli's activities.

It said the Italian Red Cross was an independent organization that did not answer to the Geneva-based international group.




So not only do they fund the terrorists by paying for the release of Italian hostages they help them evade capture. With friends like this.....

[Harrison]

[Zanchief]

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

MONSTERS!

I guess since the US doesn't deal with hostage demands no one should.

You should really write up a world police code of conduct.

[Minrott]

They can do whatever they want, but aren't they just opening themselves up to more abductions of lickalicious italian women?

[Harrison]

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

MONSTERS!

I guess since the US doesn't deal with hostage demands no one should.

You should really write up a world police code of conduct.

Clueless...wow

You start dealing with terrorists and they will up their shit and kidnap more. Because of stupid fucks like you who think catering to them is the right thing.

[Zanchief]

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

MONSTERS!

I guess since the US doesn't deal with hostage demands no one should.

You should really write up a world police code of conduct.

Clueless...wow

You start dealing with terrorists and they will up their shit and kidnap more. Because of stupid fucks like you who think catering to them is the right thing.

I'm not saying its right, I'm saying it's YOUR policy.

Big fucking deal. Don't treat them like traitors, treat them like morons.

[Narrock]

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

MONSTERS!

I guess since the US doesn't deal with hostage demands no one should.

You should really write up a world police code of conduct.

Clueless...wow

You start dealing with terrorists and they will up their shit and kidnap more. Because of stupid fucks like you who think catering to them is the right thing.

Zanchief exemplifies the stupidity and ignorance of leftist schools of thought.

[xaoshaen]

I'm not saying its right, I'm saying it's YOUR policy.

Big fucking deal. Don't treat them like traitors, treat them like morons.

You can't treat "Italy" as a traitor since they're one of them there 'sovereign nation' things.

[Zanchief]

You can't treat "Italy" as a traitor since they're one of them there 'sovereign nation' things.

With friends like this.....

I think the word has meaning outside of the realm of nations, Xao.

[xaoshaen]

You can't treat "Italy" as a traitor since they're one of them there 'sovereign nation' things.

With friends like this.....

I think the word has meaning outside of the realm of nations, Xao.

None that would make sense in this context. It's not as if anyone expected Italy to be a stalwart ally in, well, any fight.

[Zanchief]

You can't treat "Italy" as a traitor since they're one of them there 'sovereign nation' things.

With friends like this.....

I think the word has meaning outside of the realm of nations, Xao.

None that would make sense in this context. It's not as if anyone expected Italy to be a stalwart ally in, well, any fight.

Seems Martrae did.

[xaoshaen]

Seems Martrae did.

She just pointed out that they're not a reliable ally. I'm not sure how that implies she trusted them to be anything else.

[Zanchief]

Why do you always dwell on semantics, Xao?

[xaoshaen]

Why do you always dwell on semantics, Xao?

It helps prevent people from twisting the words of others if I focus on what was actually said, not on what someone wishes or imagines had been said. I prefer not to dwell in MindiaLand where a word can mean whatever the hell you feel like having it mean at any given time.

[Zanchief]

Fine, but this is your fault word nazi.

She just pointed out that they're not a reliable ally.

You just defined a common use of the word traitor by implying they are both allied with you, and they aren't reliable, thus prone to breaking the aforementioned allegiance.

That aint MindiaLand speak. That be good english.

[xaoshaen]

Fine, but this is your fault word nazi.

She just pointed out that they're not a reliable ally.

You just defined a common use of the word traitor by implying they are both allied with you, and they aren't reliable, thus prone to breaking the aforementioned allegiance.

That aint MindiaLand speak. That be good english.

Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full. In order to be a traitor, one must either commit treason, "betray another's trust", or be "false to an obligation or duty". Clearly, the first definition cannot apply to an entire sovereign nation. Nobody here has expressed any trust in Italy's resolute opposition to terrorism. A trust that does not exist cannot be betrayed. Italy was under no obligation or duty to follow the States' policies towards terrorism, and thus the third form of treason cannot apply.

It is possible that people commonly use the term "treason" in some other capacity, perhaps meaning "enjoying ice cream". This manufactured definition may well apply, as I have met many Italians who do indeed enjoy frozen dairy treats, but you've ventured far from 'good english' and well into the literary desolation of MindiaLand.

[Zanchief]

Nobody here has expressed any trust in Italy's resolute opposition to terrorism.

Yet you called them an “ally”, which I don't know about you Xao, but I think the definition entails a certain amount of trust.

And Martrae considers them a "friend".

Both scenarios involve "trust" which has been broken.

[Narrock]

Why do you always dwell on semantics, Xao?

It helps prevent people from twisting the words of others if I focus on what was actually said, not on what someone wishes or imagines had been said. I prefer not to dwell in MindiaLand where a word can mean whatever the hell you feel like having it mean at any given time.

More irony... how convenient.

[xaoshaen]

Nobody here has expressed any trust in Italy's resolute opposition to terrorism.

Yet you called them an “ally”, which I don't know about you Xao, but I think the definition entails a certain amount of trust.

And Martrae considers them a "friend".

Both scenarios involve "trust" which has been broken.

In this case, we would have had to specifically trust Italy to stand fast in the face of terrorist demands. Given the Italian history of resisting terrorists, this would require incredible optimism regardin human nature. I don't think my harshest critics would ever accuse me of that.

Two nations can establish an alliance or even a friendship, insofar as it's possible between two politicial entities comprised of millions of individuals, without actually trusting each other in every detail. Witness the alliance between Israel and the U.S.: the Mossad's intelligence gathering activities on American soil are widely known. Clearly, and wisely, neither nation trusts the other entirely. I submit to you, that no individual with a basic knowledge of history trusts the Italians to resolutely resist threats of violence against their fellow citizens. This does not preclude founding an alliance with America on other common grounds.

[xaoshaen]

Why do you always dwell on semantics, Xao?

It helps prevent people from twisting the words of others if I focus on what was actually said, not on what someone wishes or imagines had been said. I prefer not to dwell in MindiaLand where a word can mean whatever the hell you feel like having it mean at any given time.

More irony... how convenient.

Not irony. Most convenient of you to drop by and reaffirm your inability to follow the rigors of the English language, though.

[Narrock]

Why do you always dwell on semantics, Xao?

It helps prevent people from twisting the words of others if I focus on what was actually said, not on what someone wishes or imagines had been said. I prefer not to dwell in MindiaLand where a word can mean whatever the hell you feel like having it mean at any given time.

More irony... how convenient.

Not irony. Most convenient of you to drop by and reaffirm your inability to follow the rigors of the English language, though.

No sir. You see, the irony comes into play because YOU are attempting to make fun of MY English skills, when in actuality my English skills are superior to YOURS. Do you understand yet or do I need to dumb it down even further?

[xaoshaen]

No sir. You see, the irony comes into play because YOU are attempting to make fun of MY English skills, when in actuality my English skills are superior to YOURS. Do you understand yet or do I need to dumb it down even further?

The fact that you consider that to be irony is sufficient refutation for the rest of your claim. Welcome to MindiaLand, where the English language is cast aside in favor a freeform linguistic structure, where words adopt whatever meaning you care to assign them!

[Zanchief]

I never claimed Italy is traitorous, Xao. The exact opposite, actually.

[xaoshaen]

I never claimed Italy is traitorous, Xao. The exact opposite, actually.

Your claim was that others were treating Italy as if they were traitors. I was pointing out that nobody here expressed any such belief. Nopbody's accused them of any behavior that might be reasonably described as traitorous.

[Zanchief]

I never claimed Italy is traitorous, Xao. The exact opposite, actually.

Your claim was that others were treating Italy as if they were traitors. I was pointing out that nobody here expressed any such belief. Nopbody's accused them of any behavior that might be reasonably described as traitorous.

You’re a linguist AND a mind reader now Xao?