A Boxing First

Aatrex · Post by **Aatrex** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:58 pm

Yeah, I remember reading a story about him, he was actually successful. His name escapes me, and yeah it's legal as long as he doesn't have any skin diseases and makes the weight.

Minrott · Post by **Minrott** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:05 pm

Well, maybe in that wrestling association it is. But I remember a while back in a power lifting competition, an ex-marine was competing in the 140 or 160 lb class, he was a double amputee. So, he was competing in bench press against people who had legs and weighed what he did. Not exactly fair, seeing as he would have been 220 with his lower body. I believe he was diqualified.

Wrestling I can see that the disadvantage of having no legs would equal or outweigh the advantage of having higher upper body strength in the same class.

Darcler · Post by **Darcler** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:14 pm

We didnt have a wrestling team in my school, but since all my friends in school were boys, I was always wrestling with them. Since I was much smaller than most of them I would just dive for the knees andknock them off. Only one guy I have ever fought I have never been able to take down. He always took me down *cough*.

Susvain · Post by **Susvain** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:16 pm

Aatrex wrote:Yeah, I remember reading a story about him, he was actually successful. His name escapes me, and yeah it's legal as long as he doesn't have any skin diseases and makes the weight.

Man i would get ringworm alot, missed a few matches because of it

Aatrex · Post by **Aatrex** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:20 pm

Wash your mats with bleach!

Susvain · Post by **Susvain** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:21 pm

Wasn't mine, was from other towns.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:08 pm

Susvain wrote:
Aatrex wrote:Yeah, I remember reading a story about him, he was actually successful. His name escapes me, and yeah it's legal as long as he doesn't have any skin diseases and makes the weight.

Man i would get ringworm alot, missed a few matches because of it

I don't think I ever even caught a cold that I'd attribute to wrestling over the 5+ years I did it

It's a great sport but I can see how people get turned off on it

We had one of the bigger football players come out to try out for the team in my senior year (I also played football, but DB/WR)

he was about 230ish, and at my 142 lbs wrestling weight I could toss him all day long

he had the mentality of rushing in to overpower, and didn't expect someone ~100 lbs lighter to be able to suplex him (belly to belly ftw!)

Post by **Gidan** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:06 am

Wrestling was a great sport for the 2 years I did it. The workout we got was great, probably why I focused alot on grapling in kungfu. Its amazing how people dont relize that just a little bit of knowlege can make that weight difference meaning less.

Tuggan · Post by **Tuggan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:51 am

goes both ways. big fuckers that know how to use their weight and strength are much scarier to me then little guys.

Post by **Gidan** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:29 am

Weight is only an advantage when your fighting somone who doesn't understand momentum and how to use it to their advantage. The saying "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" has more truth to it then many realize. It doesn't matter how well you can controle your weight or how strong you are, if all your hitting is air, your not winning anything.

I would be far more worried fight a small agile fighter that knows what they are doing then a large one even if he knows what he is doing. Large fighers however usually dont really understand the ins and outs of combat the way smaller ones do simply becasue they havn't had to. A small fighter must understand them to be succesful, a large fighter will win many fights becasue their opponent doesn't know how to counter the weight.

From my experiences, every single larger man (over say 190ish), yes every single one always tried to use overpowering strength to win. Its just the mentality of larger people in fights. They consider their weight and power and advantage and just dont realize that in the long run it is actually disadvantage.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:38 am

Small people are funny

They try so hard to overcompensate in every little fucking thing they do in life.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:53 pm

Gidan wrote:Weight is only an advantage when your fighting somone who doesn't understand momentum and how to use it to their advantage. The saying "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" has more truth to it then many realize. It doesn't matter how well you can controle your weight or how strong you are, if all your hitting is air, your not winning anything.

I would be far more worried fight a small agile fighter that knows what they are doing then a large one even if he knows what he is doing. Large fighers however usually dont really understand the ins and outs of combat the way smaller ones do simply becasue they havn't had to. A small fighter must understand them to be succesful, a large fighter will win many fights becasue their opponent doesn't know how to counter the weight.

From my experiences, every single larger man (over say 190ish), yes every single one always tried to use overpowering strength to win. Its just the mentality of larger people in fights. They consider their weight and power and advantage and just dont realize that in the long run it is actually disadvantage.

Simply put, this is one of the biggest loads of shit I have ever seen on these boards. If there was even a glimmer of truth to this, you'd see professional welterweights competing for the world heavyweight titles. When was the last time you saw this happen? We're not talking about some bar brawl involving fat fucking oafs. We're talking about trained fighters who actually know what they're doing, competing according to rules that afford muscle mass a significant advantage. Yes, of course a superior fighter can defeat an inferior opponent despite a size disadvantage. Simply assuming that a larger fighter is somehow less proficient is a fool's argument, though. All else being equal, the stronger fighter has a significant advantage in boxing.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:33 pm

I think Gidan was talking about 'general fighting' instead of professional boxing.

I :teehee:

anytime I hear people mention people like Winky Wright, Mayorga, or Mayweather being untouchable - the best in boxing. The 'pound for pound' description is more applicable in boxing than any other sport. Roy Jones Jr. might have been the best pound for pound boxer throughout the 90s... but, and he's a big guy, put him in a ring with Lennox and it'd be over in 3 hits. Dave Tua hitting De La Hoya square in the nose? His head would fly clean off his shoulders.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:02 pm

vonkaar wrote:I think Gidan was talking about 'general fighting' instead of professional boxing.

I anytime I hear people mention people like Winky Wright, Mayorga, or Mayweather being untouchable - the best in boxing. The 'pound for pound' description is more applicable in boxing than any other sport. Roy Jones Jr. might have been the best pound for pound boxer throughout the 90s... but, and he's a big guy, put him in a ring with Lennox and it'd be over in 3 hits. Dave Tua hitting De La Hoya square in the nose? His head would fly clean off his shoulders.

boxing isn't really the best example of size difference fighting

cause it's really all about doing damage

put lennox lewis (or any other really large, successful boxer in their prime) against a much smaller guy in a UFC type fight, and the smaller guy will tear him up

but when it all comes down to it, Skill > * except maybe the 1 lucky heavy shot to the chin that comes out of know where

(think foreman vs moorer jeje)

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:11 pm

Well... that's the point that we are making Tikker. Boxing is a regulated fight with precise rules and officiating... by design anyway. This thread is about boxing. Gidan sort of made a tangent regarding size in 'real' fighting and he's right. Size isn't *that* important.

It's still a factor though. A guy who can bench 700 and has the fighting skills of Gracie is better off in a fight with a guy who can bench 200, with the same skills...

Moving back to boxing...

Put Lennox Lewis against any living boxer outside of the heavyweight division (although, he'd still win HW) and it would be a massacre. The Jesus Christ of the featherweight class wouldn't even phase him. Hell... imagine a super lightweight boxer with the exact skills of Lewis against the 'real' Lewis. In the sport of boxing the heavyweight fucker would win. Again... the very best lightweight boxers in the world would be absolutely destroyed by the heavyweight contenders. And... I'd pay money to see it. Imagine - Vitali vs Mayweather. $275, np.

Tuggan · Post by **Tuggan** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:29 pm

I dont agree with Gidan either way, 'real' fight or a boxing match.

First off, how many professionally trained fighters are getting into fights outside of the ring/cage/whatever they fight in? Try that shit and theyre going to be locked up for quite some time.

Your average fist fight at the bar, or football game or whatever totally has advantage to the bigger stronger heavier boy. Thats common sense. Talk all the kung-fu jibber jabber you want, theyre not involved in 'real fights'. Theyre fighting in a controlled environment where youre there to test your knowledge of your art.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:42 pm

vonkaar wrote:Moving back to boxing...

Put Lennox Lewis against any living boxer outside of the heavyweight division (although, he'd still win HW) and it would be a massacre. The Jesus Christ of the featherweight class wouldn't even phase him. Hell... imagine a super lightweight boxer with the exact skills of Lewis against the 'real' Lewis. In the sport of boxing the heavyweight fucker would win.

I dunno

I wonder if a superfast middleweight would be able to dance long enough to score enough points to win?

that'd be kind of interesting

put a plodding power puncher against a lighter, dancer of a boxer, and you'd have some fun

if the lighter dude got caught, it'd be lights out, but I wonder if he'd be fast enough to float like a butterfly, and sting like a mosquito long enough to get a win, heh