Tired of the rhetoric

[Gidan]

I will agree with you there, the welfare system in this country needs a great deal of work, people who are capable of working should be getting off their ass and working and not be able to just sit back and collect a check.

[ClakarEQ]

Langston, all you described was evolution over the span of 20 years, not 100's of years. Get off your soap box and realize YOU and I fucked up this place we call home. This isn't a liberal or conservative issue.

This is morality and the lack of it, this is TV, NEWS, violence, our ability to accept what was once unthinkable. We ALL as a nation feed ourselves from the dicks of the media. Keep in mind the media(NEWS) is FAR more conservative then liberal. If you were to disagree, I think you should look at the ratings, they speak for themselves.

You want the good ole-days, HAHAHA, you'll NEVER see them here again. There are far too many stupid people in our nation to see what's happening. You state the obvious and point your finger at liberals when you should be pointing in the mirror.

I'm more liberal then conservative, I'm a few days from 36. Lyion, your post just states that conservative of today will only drive the nation into the cesspool even faster for they have no heart for their fellow man. They care about one thing, themselves.

When I was a kid, I got the belt, when I was a kid I got "swats" in school, I didn't worry about getting shot, I didn't worry about get kidnapped, I didn't worry about 20 different drugs, I didn't worry about half the shit my kids will deal with.

You go to big-boys, uselessjunk, totatllycrap, etc etc, you visit porn sites, gore-gallery, you make fun of less fortunate, if you do any of these things, welcome to the contributing downward spiral of the great US of A.

[Zanchief]

I'm fairly young (23) and my 'good 'ol days' that I remember were basically my childhood, but even in my lifetime I've seen the decay. Possibly I had grown up fairly sheltered so I wasn't aware of the true state of things, and I'm just now being exposed to them? But I think that might only be partially the case.

Kids are getting into sex and drugs at a much younger age now. Even little things, such as swearing, are becoming more prevalent in the younger kids. Man, back when I was in elementary school, we would whisper in hushed tones things like "She's the b-word", but I've heard young kids say "Fuck" without a shame in the world.

It's apparent everywhere, in the behaviour of children (hell, and adults) to even our language. It makes me want to cry every time I receive an e-mail from someone at work and see "u", "ur", "y", and "o" instead of just typing the god damned words out like an adult in a professional environment.

I tend to be more liberal-minded than Ugz on many issues, but I agree with his post whole-heartedly. Quite frankly, I'm worried for the future of the country if the next generation of leaders is this lazy, whining, sheltered, id-driven teenage population, who's main concern is satisfying their base instinct for pleasure. Yeah - there's exceptions to that, but you'll likely be shot by one of the rest of your angsty peers upset at your success before you have a chance to try to rise above.

May, every single generation has thought that the generation that came after them were lazy. That's just perception. As for all the swearing, most of the real foul mouthed people I know are the angry old conservatives.

Big, where the fuck do you get that Liberals don’t want to share their wealth? Cause in reality they pay just like everyone else.

A little dramatic today, Ugz? Please, you sound like all those whiny faggots blaming rap music and video games for all your problems. You country is as conservative as ever, and you wanna whine about Liberals? Get a fucking clue, moron.

[Lyion]

Actually, I was just quoting Winston Churchill. I should of attributed it, but most people know the quote.

Generally when you are young you want to save the world. As you get older you are more interested in your childrens future and financial and economic freedoms. Its our nature.

Zan, by and large the US is moderate on most positions. We may appear to be conservative to a country that is very, very left leaning.

The rhetoric is about the same as the 80s, its just the over excess of news coverage makes every partisan nasty shot ring across the entire country. Given most of the media is very left, it's no surprise what gets an abundance of coverage.

[Bigrozz]

Zan, I was pointing out that the Rich liberals are no more willing to give away all their money than the Rich conservatives, because if they were then there would be no rich liberals.

People bash Bush for some of the tax laws that are being passed, when in truth some companies could not turn a profit without said breaks. Those companies would then fold sending the unemployment rate skyrocketing. An unfortunate side effect to those tax breaks is that greedy people that don't need the help profit from it. People are quick to point out only the negative aspects of a bill when in truth there are 2 sides to every story/coin/bill.

Sure Bush has made some mistakes, but name one President that hasn't. Many of his bills are aimed at educating the masses not sticking his finger in the leaky dike and calling it fixed. The saying "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but teach a man to fish and feed him for life." is what bush is aiming for. But because society does not see immediate results the proposed solutions are deemed a waste of money. Allot of times the controversial stuff that gets passed wasn't even the Presidents idea, but crap tacked on to a decent bill by all the politicians trying to appease their constituents.

[Minrott]

Pillars of Creation

[Zanchief]

Zan, by and large the US is moderate on most positions. We may appear to be conservative to a country that is very, very left leaning.

Some Liberal stuff drives me crazy about Canada, but it isn't that we show boobies on Network TV or that we have a more expensive welfare program.

Shrug we aren't that left, Lyion, look at the rest of the world.

[araby]

Oh, you guys just wait until there is a president in office that grew up playing Super Mario Bros.

Just wait.

[Mop]

President Brinstar tells the press today, " That ass in N Korea with the funny glasses, ya well if he doesn't stop with all the threats I am gunna go Wario on his ass"

Later that day at the middle east summit where the gaza strip was the trophy for winning a Smash Bro Melee # 17 tournement. Vice President Fefn as he was getting beaten with princess peach was heard to say," Get off my koolaid "

[kaharthemad]

Hmm, my teach put me through a test recently to score me from 1-10, 1 being as far conservative as you can go, and 10 being as far liberal.

I got an 8.85. It just seems like common sence to me. I guess thats why I'm no politician.

Any man who is under 30 and is not a Liberal has no heart and any man who is over 30 and not a Conservative has no brains.

Liberal is a republican who hasnt been mugged...

~the Maxx

[Zanchief]

Hmm, my teach put me through a test recently to score me from 1-10, 1 being as far conservative as you can go, and 10 being as far liberal.

I got an 8.85. It just seems like common sence to me. I guess thats why I'm no politician.

Any man who is under 30 and is not a Liberal has no heart and any man who is over 30 and not a Conservative has no brains.

Liberal is a republican who hasnt been mugged...

~the Maxx

A Republican is a liberal who has been mugged...

~King Zanchief

[Langston]

The degradation of the family unit is what has caused the deterioration of our culture. I don't need to explain to you, I hope, how liberalization has caused the breakdown of the family, do I?

Am I blaming video games? No. Am I blaming music? No. But these two, along with many many many other things are *symptoms* of the decay. A total lack of personal responsibility is being taught to our children - and it's not just the poor parenting, it's the bad schools, lack of respect for a "higher power". The breakdown of the institution of marriage - making it a device of convenience and whim is creating an unstable environment for children. I know this - I've been through a divorce and I rue the day that I married for the wrong reasons. You see... I've BEEN part of the problem and it's helped me to see more clearly the effect that it has on those around me and those that I care for.

Morality is failing nationwide, and people like you don't want to believe it because you're riding on the Wagon Named "Faux Equality" thinking that you're pushing forward some great crusade of "freedom" and "choice" to so many people who are, in turn, abusing these "privileges" and causing harm to themselves and others - along with dismantling our society bit by bit.

Crime is up.
Divorce is up.
Scandal is up.
Gluttony is up.
Childhood Pregnancy is up.
Drug use is up.

Show me where this country is BETTER than it was 20 years ago. Show me how we've made progress in advancing anything other than assuaging people's id-complexes. Find for me one aspect of this culture where change is being made which makes us safer, more secure, better educated and that doesn't cause failure to someone else.

This country should change it's national motto from "e pluribus unum" to a single word: "Gimme!"

People don't want you looking over their shoulder at what they're doing - but they'll be the first to report you for reprimanding your child. People don't want you to take their money to pay entitlement programs - but they'll be the first to scream at you for being a heartless pig for not donating to "charity". People don't want you investigating how they defraud social programs - but they'll be the first to bitch about the slightest bit of corruption in an Administration.

It's pathetic the double-standard that most of you live... yet you're blind to it or you vehemently deny that it exists. Either you're stupid or you're deliberate in your intent. Which is it?

[Zanchief]

Please tell me how it's liberalism that responsible for crime (which is down) and the rest of those social issues that have little baring on a productive society (aside from drug use)

Tell me how years of exploitation from the few, leading to huge disparities in classes, isn't the main cause for many if not all of the problems you've listed. The family unit (which you already shit all over with your divorce, heathen) isn't hurt by liberalism, just because conservatives don’t care about families that aren't perfect. How is whining about imperfect families helping at all, when you know yourself that shit happens?

You want a double-standard look at yourself. If you're so happy with the family unit maybe you could have actually tried exactly what you’re telling everyone else to do. Or was your divorce the fault of some evil liberal conspiracy.

[ClakarEQ]

Lang I agree with much of what you said up until the point that you feel it is caused by the liberals.

You are just too conservative to see all your contributions to our downfall.

Show me where this country is BETTER than it was 20 years ago. Show me how we've made progress in advancing anything other than assuaging people's id-complexes. Find for me one aspect of this culture where change is being made which makes us safer, more secure, better educated and that doesn't cause failure to someone else.

And over the past 28 years 20 have been conservatives at the helm, but yeah, it is the liberals fault, we've had nearly no control over what you conservatives do, you have the power to snuff out any other competing viewpoint. You own nearly all aspects of law creation, constitutional amendment, soon enough the supreme court, but again, it is the liberal at fault.

Who has the double standard here? For all the arguments I've seen from you on this board, you are an intelligent guy, but I'm a bit beside myself that you think this is all "our" fault.

You are that double-standard as much as I am. You are an American, right? That is the American way. Get your piece of the pie and run with it. No, I'm sure you are that guy that is active in his church (moral values), donates every last cent to your cause, lives in a 1 bedroom apartment because that is all you NEED, not want, is the exact weight for his height, rides your bike and doesn't own a car, not from a broken / divorced home, used to say to your sibling "gee wally that is like golly jeepers neato", etc etc

I'll stop rambling and cut to the chase, my entire point to this is it is part of the cycle that got started when big business began to own this country, and who again is known for big business vs. the worker, who are the union killers of this country, who shits on the man while he gives them money?

[Langston]

You don't read very well, Zanchief. I'll quote myself for you:

I know this - I've been through a divorce and I rue the day that I married for the wrong reasons. You see... I've BEEN part of the problem and it's helped me to see more clearly the effect that it has on those around me and those that I care for.

I don't blame any "conspiracy" for anything. I sincerely hope that there isn't a group of citizens in this country saying to themselves "how can we help to propigate law and culture that is subversive to stability and growth for our nation?"

I blame people, like yourself, that run around blindly bemoaning that there are rich people in the world who don't want to give you their money, or that there is some homeless person smoking crack on the street that the governement obviously doesn't care about (that's sarcasm in case your reading comprehension hasn't kicked in yet), or that someone spanked their kid for shoplifting at the age of 9.

If socialism is so great... if economic redistribution is the "right way"... why does it fail in practice? If you want a "working" socialism - take a peek at China: half the population is still in the 19th century. Sounds like a wonderful goal. But, we're not even approaching our socialism that wisely... no... we're going to attack our goal of economic equality by freeing the criminals, destroying the family, penalizing the successful. We're going to make it a crime to be accomplished - all in the name of "diversity" or "equal treatment".

Marriage? It's out-dated philosophy! Throw it away! Who cares that it's foundation is thousands of years old! Who cares that it promotes a stable home environment for children! Who cares!

Child Discipline? We're not huns! You should treat your six year old like he's an adult - reason with him, don't reprimand him! If he's breaking windows or doing drugs, it's society's fault - not his or yours! Take him out for ice cream instead of grounding him!

Religion? We're our own religion now! God is a myth for the weak-minded! We don't need a fear of a higher power - we have a fear of not getting McDonalds for lunch, already! Only idiots have religion!

Criminals? They're not guilty of anything other than living the life that we forced on them by being unkind and discompassionate! Free therapy - not jail time! It's not their fault!

Entitlements? We need more! We can't really expect people to EARN these things, can we?! How dare we expect people to pay for services they receive!

Business? They're the devils! How dare they make profits! How dare they not give me a job... I'm a minority! How dare they not produce new positions just so that the "disadvantaged" can have work! Greedy bastards, all of them!

Children having sex? Kids will be kids! Get off their backs! If they enjoy it, who are YOU to tell them they shouldn't be doing it!

Drugs? I like it! Leave me alone! How dare you tell me what I can and can't do! You're not the boss of me!

This is the chanting going on in every medium of communication today. It's a subversion of the securities which were the glue holding our stable society together.

It's falling apart and you refuse to see it.

[Langston]

Lang I agree with much of what you said up until the point that you feel it is caused by the liberals.

You are just too conservative to see all your contributions to our downfall.

Clakar - the conservatives of this nation aren't blameless. I agree with you there. However, the breakdown of the family, the decriminalization of real crime while we witch hunt the successful - those are the works of the liberals.

The media and pop culture have more power than the government. Who happens to be president is incidental to what laws get passed any more. The fear that the electorate won't put them back in their cushy Washington offices keeps the "law-makers" on the "straight and narrow" for the liberal agenda. It takes a war before the conservatives can wrest the authority back from the propagandists and spin-doctors to get anything done.

I will say again, though:

The conservatives of our country are not blameless.

[ClakarEQ]

Fair enough, and your post 7327 is close to true. You know this is really just a cycle, in years to come we'll answer to china. China will unionize and socialize (most likely but will take MUCH MUCH longer then the US). Corp China will then outsource to lesser cost nations (Like USA) and begin the cycle again.

This of course assumes we don't blow ourselves up, get hit by an asteroid or some shit.

Every nation falls, it is only a matter of time.

Most of what you've said is not driven by politics or D's or R's but humans. We have been trained to act and think this way, to want more and more for less and less even if we NEED nothing. This thought process spanes all genders, races, religions, politics, in the US and it will be our downfall, it has already begun.

My opinion is and will remain however, that conservatives have pushed harder and harder to speed our downfall in recent years than at any other time. If you think it is bad now, wait 10 more years when the conservative movement holds 60% of our country hostage, then you'll see how wrong you've been.

[Yamori]

Any man who is under 30 and is not a Liberal has no heart and any man who is over 30 and not a Conservative has no brains.

Apparently I'm heartless then. :D


Anywho... there were no "good old days." There were always grave injustices and utter idiocy no matter what time period you look at.

Oh, and the so called "conservatives" are just as responsible for this country's decay. They are just as intent on making the government increasingly bigger and more intrusive.

[Bigrozz]

I couldnt agree more with you Lang. I dont totaly blame the liberals. I primarily blame lazy people that want something for nothing. Next I blame the people that are looking for a cause to champion, that take up the lazy peoples banner and start a crusade against people that work hard for what they own. If people want a better society they need to get up off thier ass and make a difference rather than armchair quaterback everything.

[Minrott]

So quick to point fingers at the conservatives, who've only been in power for a short time. Congress, house and senate, was held captive by the Democrats for 50 years until the country ousted half of them in 1994. Now we've had both Republican and Democrat presidents in that time, but I don't see any president radically improving or degrading our society in 4 or 8 years. Of course, FDR had 12 and signifigantly changed our social structure (for the worse in the long run if you ask me). The system just doesn't cater to that, for good reason. Real change takes time, a lot of time. It took us 60 years to really get the civil rights movement to a point where we are today, for example.

My point is, conservative or liberal ideas aren't the problem. They're nothing more than a catalyst for power hungry politicians. Politicians who stand on one issue, or one group of issues, and will not back down, will not compromise at all, simply to get the support from some certain group of people to garauntee their re-election year after year. That's the problem. Selfish government that wants to govern, rather than actually try to make things better.

The political climate of our country is like the actual climate of the world. It changes in waves and cycles. And those who don't change with the climate are left sputtering at how the other side is now ruining the country. Prove to me life is worse for you that it was 10 years ago. Even if you can, if some part of your life is just a tiny bit worse than 10 years ago, I garauntee there are 50 more people that say it's better for them.

Never will we be able to say life's perfect and the government is responsible for that utopia.

[Spazz]

"Marriage? It's out-dated philosophy! Throw it away! Who cares that it's foundation is thousands of years old! Who cares that it promotes a stable home environment for children! Who cares! "

DUde if you got a divorce where do you have room to even talk about that homie ?

[DangerPaul]

I disagree with you now, in the fact you blame a political party for any of this. It is 100% fault in the parents of how things are today. My father took a fire poker to my head for disrespecting my mother, try that today. I was not allowed to watch TV for more than an hour a day and video games were 30 minutes. My mother sat down with me while I did my homework, then I had to report to my father what my homework was about when he got home. I may be a slimebag asshole on the boards, but I can say that at age 31 I am successful, happy, have no criminal record (including ZERO traffic violations) I respect the law and I respect all people I meet face to face. This all falls on how people were raised, not a political party, period.

[alezrik]

I dont think it has anything to do with liberal/conservatives.

It's all a sign of overpopulation.

There are alot of places far more liberal than here, and while I could be wrong I dont hear about alot of these problems going on in the Netherlands or Sweden for example.

[Bigrozz]

Not to derail but whats the averga age of people that post here?

[Tossica]

I am old.