Mop / Stayce

[DangerPaul]

Opinion:

As previously stated, I was king lazy fuck for years and gained almost 80lbs of fat. (thank god I hid it well) Anyways, started at the gym and the healthy eating bit a little over a month ago. I have dropped somewhere around 34lbs and in the last 10 days (I dropped almost 30 or so in the last year) I have dropped almost 5% body fat (which I was told is virtually impossible and not safe.) So anyways, I can't sleep anymore, I am always tired / sore / aching. Do I need to slow down or what? I don't meet with my trainer for another week, so I am asking you if I need to drop it down or what.

[Mop]

you need to slow down and check into a sleep clinic lol

[liquidstayce]

Losing rapidly is not safe. 1.5 to 2lbs a week will give you longer lasting results. If you are losing that fast it may mean that you are not taking in enough quality calories and probably starving yourself. Chances are you may be losing muscle as well. Increase your protein intake. Any idea how many grams you are getting in a day? That will help with the recovery. You can exercise hard as long as you give your body adequate fuel and rest. Slow down though until that happens.

I've overdone it a few times in the past to the point where I am so sore that I can't sleep. Not a good thing! It means your body is telling you to get some rest. If you don't you also run the risk of injury.

What time of the day do you workout and for how long? How many days a week?Whats your split look like if you are doing a split?

How much sleep are you getting? If working out hard core (6 days a week = 3-4 resistance training days + cardio on all the days) you need more then the avg (typically sleep deprived) person. Bodybuilders sleep at least 8 hrs and typically more when they train. I felt really good at 9 hours when I was lifting heavier.

What does your diet look like? Toss what you ate yesterday in http://www.fitday.com and come back here and tell me the # of calories, protein, carb, and fat ratios.


If you still can't get good sleep in after you slow down for a couple weeks and are getting really sore then you can also try taking this before bed but you should only do it if all else fails:

Try ZMA..
ZMA is a combination of the minerals zinc and magnesium. Rigorous exercise and stress result in significant losses of these two minerals. A deficiency in these minerals can have a significant effect on strength and endurance.

Zinc is an anabolic element. Therefore it promotes healing, tissue repair and muscle growth. It also increases the effect of Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1, growth hormone and testosterone which are extremely important muscle growth. Zinc is also required for many of the enzymes that prevent lactic acid buildup.

Magnesium helps with oxygen delivery to muscle tissue. It promotes muscle strength, endurance and relaxation. It also activates enzymes necessary for the metabolism of carbohydrates and amino acids.

The body releases the most growth hormone approximately 90 minutes after going to sleep. Since ZMA increases the effect of growth hormone, it is recommended you take it 30-60 minutes before going to bed.
Brands: Twinlab ZMA Fuel, Cytodyne Technologies Z-Mass PM, GNC ZMA
When I took it it made me sleep really well but felt a little funky. I didn't take it long term. Just maybe 2 months or so.

You can also try some melatonin. The pineal gland in our brain controls our sleep/wake cycle (the circadian rhythm). This gland secretes minute amounts of the hormone, melatonin, at night in response to darkness. Supplementing with melatonin will help you fall asleep and keep you in REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep longer. This will ensure better rest at night. I use tp take a 3mg tablet one hour before going to bed. Start with only 1mg tablets and only move up the dosages if needed. Again, I would use this short term too if it all possible. Just until you are consistently sleeping better and not so sore.

[liquidstayce]

ohhh and one more thing...
Pre and post workout nutrition can also help a ton.

Try eating 1-2 hrs before your workout. Any combination of whole-grain carbs and lean protein that you like. Just remember to ONLY eat as much carbohydrates and protein as necessary.


Examples of meals I snagged for you from a bbing website:

Pre-Workout Meal #1
Oats
Chicken breast
Wheat bread
Cottage cheese

This meal has my favorite carb foods, and my favorite proteins as well. What I do is cook the oats, or sometimes eat them raw. I eat the chicken by itself.

I toast the wheat bread until it is very toasty, and then spread cottage cheese on it. This tastes awesome and is my favorite protein snack for any time of day. I add it to my pre-workout meal, though, because it makes me feel full without having to eat as much, so I do not gain weight too rapidly.

Pre-Workout Meal Option #2
Whole wheat bun
Nonfat turkey burger
Oats
Lettuce
With this meal, I usually make 2 turkey burgers and have that on 2 whole wheat buns, then have some oats to top it off. Lettuce goes well on the turkey burgers.

Pre-Workout Meal Option #3
Whey protein
Big bowl of oats
Cup milk
This is a really simple option. I like to mix the oats, whey protein and milk, and eat like a cereal. You can also mix this up in a blender for convenience. That way, if you are going to be out before your workout, you can slam a quick meal in the form of a shake and be ready 1-2 hours later!

Pre-Cardio Meal (For Low-Intensity Cardio)
Tuna fish
Whey protein shake
This meal is extremely simple, as you can see. Just consume some whole food protein and a protein shake and you can get to running after this meal with a steady supply of protein in your body to use for muscle building, or muscle preserving.


Post workout your best bet is going to be a shake.
Examples from bodybuilding site (again these guys are huge competitive bbers so you don't necessarily need to eat as much! Just a good whey shake with some fruit in it and milk or cottage cheese or yogurt is good. I usually do a shake and then about 90 minutes later I eat a well balanced meal. Some of these guys have both the shake and meal at the same time.

Post Workout Meal #1
Banana
Milk
whey protein
Oats
Sweet potatoes
Salmon
It doesn't take too much intuition to figure out what to do here. Mix up the salmon, sweet potatoes, and banana in water, cook the oats in milk, and eat the protein powder dry.

Just kidding! What I usually do is take out the blender throw in some ice, mix in some milk, the whey protein, the banana, and oatmeal. This tastes awesome and is great for sipping on while I eat the sweet potatoes and salmon.

Post Workout Meal #2
Oats - ground up
Whey protein
Egg protein powder

I thought this one up one day where I had to go to work straight from the gym. I just mixed up this shake in the blender, threw it in my bodybuilding.com shaker bottle, and sipped it 30 minutes after my workout was finished.

Post Workout Meal #3
Non-fat turkey burger
Whole wheat bun
Sweet potato
Whey protein
Milk

This is another basic carb and protein meal that I like to have sometimes. Sweet potatoes are pretty much a staple in my diet. They might seem very sugary, but really, the carbs in sweet potatoes are actually more complex than those in a white potato! So eat up those yams.

Post-Cardio Meal Example
Zero Carb Isopure Whey Protein
Chicken breast
Not too many carbs here. This meal is for after a low-intensity cardio session, when you don't really need carbs.

[Gypsiyee]

Stayce - I know all that stuff is very good for you, and I try incorporate most of it in my diet on a daily basis.. but really, how do you eat the same thing day in day out without going nuts?

I just need a little more flavor in my life than that I suppose - I do eat only wheat and oats, don't eat any white starches, eat lots of poultry and if beef or pork lean cuts (we have a bit of venison too what with hunting season) but good golly, I run out of recipes!

Do you ever jazz it up? I used to live with a bodybuilder and the only thing I ever saw her eat was celery, broccoli, carrots, rice cakes, and an occasional chicken breast.. I just don't know how anyone can live like that

[liquidstayce]

Ya.. I usually jazz up my lunch or dinner but breakfast, pre, and post workout are pretty much the same most of the time. I like to experiment with new spices and recipes lately. I get many of them from other weight loss surgery patients. Did crock pot sour cream chicken last week.

Breakfast is usually oats plus protein powder and or some berries or once in a while egg whites and some smart balance cheddar cheese and maybe a 1/2 whole wheat English muffin. Let's see.. this morning I had two laughing cow light cheeses on 2 wasa crisps. Oh and sometimes I make protein pancakes (cottage cheese, oats, egg, sf blueberry syrup.

Pre and post workout I get creative with cottage cheese (see my cottage cheese thread) and protein shakes too. I have not worked out in a couple weeks so have not been needing a pre and post workout meal lately. Just doing 4 meals which really work out to three meals plus a protein based snack before bed. I have the cottage cheese before bed and mix that with sugar free pudding or jam and/or natural peanut butter. Sometimes I also eat the no sugar added ice cream but not on a regular basis - Klondike slim a bear - yum.

I can't eat a ton of food. I probably eat on average about the equivalent of 1 cup of food in a meal depending on the density. I try to get that 1 cup to 300 - 350 calories so sometimes I pick a little more calorie dense food (ie- cant eat cottage cheese alone- have to add in some peanut butter). I hardy ever eat bread because it fills me up too fast and then I can't get in my protein. What I do eat I make count and I always try to eat up my protein before I even start in on the carbs. I need to do that for my specific situation. For other people I usually suggest they try to do a better of job balancing out the carb and protein ratios. I'm getting to the point now where I've started to add more complex carbs back in now that I am 6 months post op and can tolerate a lot more variety as well as a bit more food - example .. had some butternut squash last night with 3 cheese stuffed chicken (my mom cooked - I'm here visiting her for the holiday).

Seems like at work lately I keep choosing chopped chicken salad or once in a while I have one slice of plain cheese pizza. We have been going across to this deli at the hospital where they make these gigantic sandwiches. Fortunately for me they are cool with just giving me a scoop of chicken salad without the bread and other stuff. This week they had this brie and chicken salad that was awesome. Probably a little high on the fat side but because I only ate 1/2 cup of it that is fine. Last week they had curry chicken salad with raisins. That was yummy too. Some times I bring my own turkey chili or sometimes a salad with some grilled chicken. Dinner tends to be the same types of foods as lunch.

When I am lazy and want a quick no fuss meal I have 2 string cheeses and an achiev one protein coffee lattes (20grams of protein in coffee that tastes like starbucks I get from http://www.bariatriceating.com - YUM). That can end up being a breakfast or a lunch. Most of the time I also eat an apple with that meal too so I can get it to the right amt of calories 2 string cheese = 160 protein latte = 120
apple = 80ish ... total 360ish.

Remember though, with my gastric bypass I have different considerations then someone like Paul. He can probably eat double what I can eat.

When I splurge on a free day its a joke too. Not hardly the splurges I use to be able to do. Dana will order Chinese and I can eat maybe 4 oz of hot and sour soup, 1 bite of orange chicken, 1 bite of fried rice, steamed dumpling - discard the noodle portion, and I am done! If he orders pizza I can eat 1 slice of plain cheese or if they are small maybe two slices and its always thin crust. Just ask him! Gone are the days of me eating anything resembling the amt of food a true bodybuilder eats. Plus the pro ones probably would not be eating pizza or Chinese during the season. =) Many of those guys do eat pretty bland.

ohh.. and every day I still have skim milk sf vanilla latte or small coffee mid-morning but I don't really count that as a meal. If I had an IV I would probably just inject it into me =P I am way to addicted to caffeine for my own good. I do limit to one a day though plus the protein latte which also has caffeine in it.

[liquidstayce]

Stayce - I know all that stuff is very good for you, and I try incorporate most of it in my diet on a daily basis.. but really, how do you eat the same thing day in day out without going nuts?

I just need a little more flavor in my life than that I suppose - I do eat only wheat and oats, don't eat any white starches, eat lots of poultry and if beef or pork lean cuts (we have a bit of venison too what with hunting season) but good golly, I run out of recipes!

Do you ever jazz it up? I used to live with a bodybuilder and the only thing I ever saw her eat was celery, broccoli, carrots, rice cakes, and an occasional chicken breast.. I just don't know how anyone can live like that

So much great recipes on the web. Just do some digging. I find new chicken stuff all the time. Lemon Chicken, Salsa Chicken, Pesto Chicken, Mushroom Chicken, Jerk/Caribbean Chicken. Chopped turkey you can do a ton of stuff with too. So many good veggies to explore as well - assorted squash, anise, eggplant, all the different field greens - add some crumbled goat cheese to a salad with some craisins and bake up some whole wheat croutons.. instant gourmet chef!! Hey .. if you like seafood you have it made. I just don't like it so I don't cook it. I did grilled Tilapia a long time ago and that came out pretty good for a fish meal. When I am in a non-cooking lazy mode (often) I eat a lot of those morning star veggie products - buffalo chicken, basil and mozzarella veggie pizza burgers.


(can you tell I have too much free time at my mom's house today.. hehe)
Tons of healthy seafood choices out there.

[Gypsiyee]

I cook just about every day, minus Friday/Saturday usually. I do make a ton of stuff, but out of the stuff I make we pick our favorites, and those seem to get old after a while. Often I find recipes that I try, but hate because they're just too..busy for me. They have too much going on. Both Scott and I have very simple tastes - we don't like busy food. None of the veggies you mentioned we'll eat! We usually stick to green beans and broccoli. Feta cheese I detest (I can't eat stuff that I don't like the smell of.. blech!)

Do you have a good site for healthy recipes? I try to cook as healthy as I can without Scott thinking it's 'diet food.'

[Jay]

Just eat Metranon's Chili everyday. That's what I've been doing.

PS - Hey Met your chili is the shit.

[DangerPaul]

Well, I broke down and saw my personal trainer tonight. He spent an hour doing random stretching excercises with me and then told me to not come back until Monday. He said i simply burnt myself out.

Like I always said, I do everything in extreme, it just finally happened with excercise. Oh yeah, cong me, 196lbs. 1 to go and I can chill the fuck out.

[Martrae]

I gotta say I LOVE that Fitday website. For some reason putting in the info really makes me want to move more just to make the calories burned number rise.

[liquidstayce]

Ya.. nice that it is free too.

[Metranon]

If you want to do something good for your kids let them help you cook healthy food, I think developing good eating habits is something people can learn at a young age from watching their parents...If you have male children, you should try to get their father to cook for them on a at least semi-regular basis. Otherwise they may see cooking as a "female" task, and won't learn to cook on their own.

i never really thought about learning to cook "healthy" food growing up, my parents are just ex-bike racers and hippies so growing up i ate a lot of lentil patties, turkey sausage casserole, spicy broccoli with peanut sauce and tofu etc. I didn't really take a active interest in cooking until I moved out since both my parents are pretty good at it, however looking back I can say that I'm tremendously happy that they took an active interest in being good role models for me in terms of good cooking and eating habits.

[Martrae]

I feel I'm lucky in that Kahar does most of the suppertime cooking and we've always insisted the kids have to at least taste whatever's made before they can decide they don't like it. They have a healthy appetite for vegetables especially broccoli and salads.

As part of homeschooling, I've started having the kids help me make breakfast and lunch. They're enjoying making up fun snacks too like pear man which is a pear half with raisins on it to form a face and peanuts around the top to look like hair.

[araby]

You're so lucky to get to homeschool your kids =)