Looking at buying a comp, need comments/advice

Post by **Arlos** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:20 am

Going through the site Lyion recommended, http://www.cyberpowersystem.com. I am fully capable of assembling one myself, which is what I did on my current machine. However, it would be nice to have someone I can yell at if something breaks. Also, I'd like to get a liquid cooling system, and if they put it together and something leaks, I am under warranty and can get it repaired/replaced. If I do it and it leaks, I just have a dead PC.

I am going to be using the machine for a fair amount of gaming, but I'm also going to be using it to do all of my coding for my various CS classes.

Anyway, here's what I'm looking at as far as components, and would love to get som ecomments from people who know more than I as to if I'm making any stupid mistakes or not, if I'm getting stuff I don't need, etc. Thanks much in advance.

Here's the list:

Power Supply: Aspire 680W ATX-AS680W-BK Beast Power ATX Power Supply

CPU: AMD Athlon64 X2 4800

Cooling: Coolermaster Liquid Cooling System + 2 Extra Case Fans

Motherboard: ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCIE MB w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE-1394, &7.1Audio

Memory: 2 gig, 512x4 PC3200 400Mhz Dual Channel DDR Memory: Corsair XMS High Performance Memory with Heat Spreader

NVidia GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB 16x PCI Express Video Card

Hard Drive: SATA150 - Maxtor 200GB 7200RPM 8meg Cache

Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-110 Dual Format 16x DVD +R/+RW + CD-R/WR Drive Dual Layer

Sound Card: Creative Labs X-FI XtremeMusic 24-BIT PCI Sound Card

OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional X64 Edition (Requires AMD Athlon 64 CPU)

Thanks again.

-Arlos

Goose_Man · Post by **Goose_Man** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:29 am

Sounds like a fun cpu.. I'd talk to capt though.

If my memory serves me correct, he bought 2 of cyberpower computers and they BOTH crapped all over him and he had a really hard time getting them to pony up.

dammuzis · Post by **dammuzis** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:40 am

do not buy windows xp pro 64 bit, it is the biggest steaming pile of an os since millenium edition

Vincenti · Post by **Vincenti** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:44 am

had some problems with XP64 myself. Got it on a drafting workstation and cant find jackshit for periphral drivers, no plotters, scanners etc. We use all HP printers/plotters and apparently HP hasnt embraced the 64-bit OS yet.

Post by **Arlos** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:20 pm

OK, definitely will just get normal XP Professional than the 64 bit version, and Goose, I dunno if Cap reads this forum, so I sent him a PM about it. Hopefully he actually reads PMs occasionally. heh. Thanks much guys. Any comments from anyone else?

-Arlos

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:49 pm

Couple of things, as I just built a similar machine a few months ago.

1. Not sure how well those prepackaged watercooling systems work, but if its under warranty, shrug. Also, liquid cooling is pretty extreme. If you arent overclocking its a waste.

2. Might want to look into your motherboard selection a bit more. I use a DFI LANParty Nforce SLI-DR and its great. More overclock settings than you can use, voltage everything, built in memtest86 in the BIOS.

3. I would go with 2 sticks of 1 Gig RAM over 4 sticks of 512 RAM. If you use 4 sticks of RAM as opposed to 2, you will have to drop down to the '2T' command rate instead of using the '1T' you can use with only two sticks. 1T obviously is faster than 2T.

Ive also heard very bad things about the XP64 bit edition. I use regular XP Professional and my system and it is fine.

For reference :

Athlon 4400+ X2
2 X 1 Gig Crucial Ballistix Tracer
DFI LANParty SLI-DR motherboard
2 X XFX 7800GTX OC'd version (490 MHz core 1300MHz memory)
2 X 250 GB Maxtor 16MB Cache SATA drives in RAID 0 conifguration
Enermax Noisetaker 600W power supply
Cheapo NEC DVD ROM I think
Cheapo floppy
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
UFO case, 9 120mm case fans from http://www.mountainmods.com
Thermalright XP-120 CPU Heatsink
Panasonic Panaflo 120mm fan for CPU

Currently, without breaking a sweat :
RAM running at 240MHz vs stock 200MHz (DDR480 vs DDR400)
CPU running at 2.64 GHz vs stock 2.2GHz (4800+ runs at 2.4GHz)

Minimal tweaking on my part, could get more out of her if I tried Im sure. Or added liquid cooling.

Post by **Arlos** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:45 pm

I can see your point on getting 2x1gig instead of 4x512, and not to mention, it leaves me room to expand later to 4gig if I should want/need to do so.

As for the Liquid Cooling system, a friend of mine has one, and swears by it. His system had constant overheating problems before he got it, even when he wasn't overclocking anything. He got his LCS (in his case from Danger Den), and boom, not a single overheating problem ever again.

So, since I intend this system to last me for a very very long time, I wanted to get as much top-end stuff in it as I could afford, so that it doesn't need to be upgraded for a long time.

-Arlos

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:48 pm

Go with as few sticks of ram as possible (less latency)

water cooling is only needed if you're going to overclock

I don't know a single person with watercooling that hasn't had at least 1 leak (stuff didn't always die, but you have to be careful)

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:34 pm

About the overheating problems, was his system based around a pentium 4? Those run much hotter than Athlon 64 chips. With a properly fanned and aerated case, the liquid wont be necessary at all. More of a hobbyist thing. But do what you like with it, if LQ appeals to you go for it, its just a major cost to a system build and not necessary unless you want to attempt a ridiculous overclock or something.

I dont have liquid cooling and my CPU is running 240 MHz faster than a stock 4800+. No heating problems at all. Granted my case is ridiculous, but it would still be fine in something like a CoolerMaster Praetorian or something.

Captain Insano · Post by **Captain Insano** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:13 pm

arlos wrote:I can see your point on getting 2x1gig instead of 4x512, and not to mention, it leaves me room to expand later to 4gig if I should want/need to do so.

As for the Liquid Cooling system, a friend of mine has one, and swears by it. His system had constant overheating problems before he got it, even when he wasn't overclocking anything. He got his LCS (in his case from Danger Den), and boom, not a single overheating problem ever again.

So, since I intend this system to last me for a very very long time, I wanted to get as much top-end stuff in it as I could afford, so that it doesn't need to be upgraded for a long time.

-Arlos

I also have to agree on two points:

Ditch WinXP 64. There is nothing out there yet that is actually written to use it if you are buying the computer for home use.

Watercooling is really nice for two things: overclocking and zero noise. If you are running an athlon chip I would actually go with the watercooling... The fans for those chips are very loud.

Also I would get PC2-4200 DDR2 memory in 1gb sticks. This memory runs at 533Mhz versus PC2-3200 which runs at only 400Mhz.

Ram is usually the most jacked up upgrade pricewise from computer manufacturers... Therefore I would just order the computer with one low end stick of 512 and get some Crucial memory from Newegg and save a bundle.

Ok onto Cyberpower systems... I bought two of their systems very recently and was really disappointed.

First off it looked like they literally dumped everything they used to build the machine in one box... it was a fucking mess.

BOTH machines froze up within 5 minutes of turning them on. I ended up rebuilding them both and never ever got Windoze Media Center to work properly. After two days of dicking with them I returned them both and was given a lot of shit from their tech staff...

Little did they know I lived like 20 minutes away from their corporate office... So I actually returned the machines in person and embarassed the hell out of some of their tech staff in the process for giving me the run around.

I'll be totally honest with... Cyberpower literally just buys a ton of aftermarket parts and puts the stuff together, much in the way you or I would build a machine if we did it by hand. I saw their work area and there is no real testing or anything going on there.

In my opinion it isn't a very professional company at all and I don't know why people recommend them. ... Ok, actually I know why they get recommended... They are cheap. But you get what you pay for with them.

I would probably check out Velocity Micro or Polywell Poly before I bought any cybershit system.

As far as your specs you are really on par there, but make sure your MoBo supports SLI.

Two inexpensive Nvidia 6800's in SLI will SMOKE one 7800.

kaharthemad · Post by **kaharthemad** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:51 am

As for the motherboards I would atleast Reccomendlooking at the MSI boards.. MSI makes a hardy mobo with alot of nice features depending on what you want/need.

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:10 am

Arg don't buy your damn OS period.

><

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:32 am

captain_insano wrote:Ok onto Cyberpower systems... I bought two of their systems very recently and was really disappointed.

First off it looked like they literally dumped everything they used to build the machine in one box... it was a fucking mess.

BOTH machines froze up within 5 minutes of turning them on. I ended up rebuilding them both and never ever got Windoze Media Center to work properly. After two days of dicking with them I returned them both and was given a lot of shit from their tech staff...

Little did they know I lived like 20 minutes away from their corporate office... So I actually returned the machines in person and embarassed the hell out of some of their tech staff in the process for giving me the run around.

I'll be totally honest with... Cyberpower literally just buys a ton of aftermarket parts and puts the stuff together, much in the way you or I would build a machine if we did it by hand. I saw their work area and there is no real testing or anything going on there.
.

I bought my PC over a year ago from them and I've had no problems at all. If memory serves I bought it after someone here recommended them, I think it was Taxx.

All PC manufacturers buy OEM stuff, Ralph. Not sure what your point is there. It's the same if you buy from Dell or a smaller shop.

I'd buy another system from them.

Obviously YMMV. I've recommended them to several people who all have bought PCs and had zero issues. No offense, Cap, but you appear to be PC cursed, man.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:23 pm

Yeah I'm a big supporter of Cyberpower. Had many friends and myself who've bought from them and never a problem...and their shit runs super fast for the specs they have for some reason. I'm planning on getting another system from them after my christmas bonus. Can't reccommend them enough.

Post by **Arlos** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:33 pm

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Placed the order late last night to take advantage of their holiday sale, and got 5% off the final price, which saved me abour 135 bucks, counting tax. (plus got a free copy of Half-Life 2 and Nero 7.0 Ultra) Only thing I'll need to pick up now is a student edition copy of Office to throw onto it.

I got the normal version of XP Professional, and did get 2 1gig sticks of RAM. I looked at their Motherboard list, and none of the ones you guys listed as options were available, and I know ASUS makes top-notch boards, so I stuck with that one. The board has RAID and SLI functionality built in, even though I'm not using it yet, but it gives me the option to do so later if I choose, which is why I went with the single 7800 instead ofa pair of 6800s.

Oh, and Mo, my friend's comp was definitely AMD chips, not Intel. So, dunno if he just had a bad case or something.

Here's the final system as ordered:

X-Cruiser Mid-Tower case with Multi-meter display and control (black)
Upgraded Power Supply: Aspire 680W BEAST POWER ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive 1: PIONEER DVR-110 DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD+/-R/+/-RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER
Optical Drive 2: SONY 52X CD-ROM
Floppy: 1.44 MB 3.5" floppy
Cooling: CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit + 2 EXTRA CASE FANS
Flash Media: INTERNAL 6in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
Hard Drive: SATA150 - Maxtor 200GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache Hard Drive
Motherboard: ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCIE MB w/GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE-1394,&7.1Audio
Memory: 2048 MB (1GBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY [+135] (Corsair XMS High Performance Memory w/ Heat Spreader)
OS: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Professional w/ Service Pack 2
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-FI XtremeMusic 24-BIT PCI Sound Card
Video Card: NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GTX 256MB 16X PCI Express Video Card

Can't wait for it to get here.

Considering my current machine is an XP2000 with a GeForce 5600, something tells me I am going to see just a tad bit more performance out of the new system. heh.

-Arlos

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:03 pm

Bah now you are making me want to build another computer. I just made mine about a year ago though, lol I need to chill.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:22 pm

out of curiosity, why bother with a cd rom, and floppy?

Post by **Arlos** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:14 pm

1) Cause together they added up to a grand total of 20 bucks added on to the price

2) Cause there are unix machines on campus that I use for classes that have floppy drives, but are not accessible from outside the campus network at all. So, I can put source code on floppy, take it with me to class, etc.

3) CD-Rom is so I can do disk-to-disk burns to make direct copies of CDs without having to copy data onto my HD.

4) The 52x CD-ROM drive is faster at reading CD-ROMs than the DVD burner combo drive is, so if I want max speed at reading them, I put the disk in the CD drive.

-Arlos

Captain Insano · Post by **Captain Insano** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:27 pm

Lyion wrote:
captain_insano wrote:Ok onto Cyberpower systems... I bought two of their systems very recently and was really disappointed.

First off it looked like they literally dumped everything they used to build the machine in one box... it was a fucking mess.

BOTH machines froze up within 5 minutes of turning them on. I ended up rebuilding them both and never ever got Windoze Media Center to work properly. After two days of dicking with them I returned them both and was given a lot of shit from their tech staff...

Little did they know I lived like 20 minutes away from their corporate office... So I actually returned the machines in person and embarassed the hell out of some of their tech staff in the process for giving me the run around.

I'll be totally honest with... Cyberpower literally just buys a ton of aftermarket parts and puts the stuff together, much in the way you or I would build a machine if we did it by hand. I saw their work area and there is no real testing or anything going on there.
.

I bought my PC over a year ago from them and I've had no problems at all. If memory serves I bought it after someone here recommended them, I think it was Taxx.

All PC manufacturers buy OEM stuff, Ralph. Not sure what your point is there. It's the same if you buy from Dell or a smaller shop.

I'd buy another system from them.

Obviously YMMV. I've recommended them to several people who all have bought PCs and had zero issues. No offense, Cap, but you appear to be PC cursed, man.

I am aware that all PC manufacturers buy OEM... Hell every single Dell is completely OEM except for the cases... The point I was trying to make is that the bigger companies seem to actually do some pretty rigorous testing before bringing out a product... I actually saw the entire workspace at Cyberpower's HQ... I'm telling you from what I saw there was nothing but a bunch of low paid, inexperienced clowns building those machines...

They didn't use anti-stat mats, the workspace was a fucking mess, they didn't use any ESD prevention whatsoever and I couldn't see any quality control going on.

I'm justing giving my two cents from personal experience. Cyberpower hasn't won any awards in awhile from everything I've read and I am an avid reader of PC Mag and PC Computing... Velocity Micro and Polywell Poly are both highly recommended in recent times.