1 more missing link - Dinosaurs -> Birds

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:56 am

1st Bird had raptor like feet

Long story short, they found a better specimen of Archaeopteryx that shows that it had feet more resembling a velociraptor than a traditional bird

Neat evolutionary step

ps, translated for the zealots "goddidit"

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:05 am

It's funny that you actually believe those lies, Tikker.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:28 pm

Yeah I know

It'd be more definitive if it was vaguely referenced in one moldy old book that contradicted itself multiple times, but I have to settle for stuff with physical evidence

Scoota McGee · Post by **Scoota McGee** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:25 pm

Maybe God put it there just to fuck with your head... She's like that some times.

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:02 pm

1. People stand in line at a tree because they think somehow the Virgin Mary is in it or something.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/health ... ing_statue

2. People summarily dismiss the millenia of careful observation and study of the true nature of reality ie physics, biology, cosmology, all science, all real observation of nature.

Something is wrong here.

Ouchyfish · Post by **Ouchyfish** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:13 pm

I heard in college that a scale was like a gene away from a feather.

Post by **Tossica** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:43 pm

OuchyFish wrote:I heard in college that a scale was like a gene away from a feather.

That makes baby jesus cry.

mappatazee · Post by **mappatazee** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:53 pm

You can't prove a THEORY. Ask any scientest, evolution CANOT be <i>TESTED</i> THis is what separates evoltuion from truth. There are just wayyy to many holes. If there is archeopterix why aren't there birds that have teeth but no claws?! Or dinosaurs that have some scales warm blood and the right bones!? The Bible however reveeals itself to be true at every turn to be the word of God a perfect immortal being who careated evertying in a flash.

Ouchyfish · Post by **Ouchyfish** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:01 pm

I am confidant that some dinosaurs mutated into birds, however the hangup I have is how the hell did they go from cold blooded to warm blooded? Unless it was possible for some dinosaurs to have been naturally warm blooded to begin with?

I knew I should have actually read those damn textbooks.

Post by **Arlos** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:01 am

Current thinking is that it is highly likely that many, if not all dinosaurs were indeed warm blooded. Evidence ranges from bone structure to the fact that they have found fossils in rocks that were at the south pole at the time the dinosaurs lived there. It WAS warmer then, so no ice caps, but even so, it did indeed get cold there in the winter, and so they'd have to hve been warm blooded to live there. Other evidence is the proportion of predators to herbivores. If you look at populations with cold-blooded predators, the predators can make up 20-50% of the total animal population, because they don't need to eat very often. Warm-blooded animals need to eat MUCH more frequently, and as a result take up 5-6% of the overall animal populations. (go to africa today, and count the number of herbivores vs carnivores, and carnivores add up to about 6%). Based on all the discovered fossils of dinosaurs so far, the percentage of carnivore dinosaurs discovered so far is right about at 5%.

BTW, it is certainly possible to go from cold-blooded to warm-blooded over the course of time. Look at sharks, for example. Most sharks (just like other fish) are cold-blooded. However, there are some species (Makos and Great Whites, for example) that have adapted to have what is effectively a warm-blooded system. It's an advantage for those that have it because it lets them go into colder and richer waters, thus greater chances of finding food, plus it means they are faster swimmers.

-Arlos

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:35 am

Forget all the bitching and complaining, I find this fascinating. Even if you don't believe in evolution, can't you admit that the whole subject is amazing? The field and study is mindblowing. Thanks for the article.

I have to say the only thing that dissapoints me, is I always liked to think of Velociraptors as they were depicted in Jurassic Park. Large, scaley, and scary as fuck. A while back I was watching a special on them on the discovery channel, and there is signifigant evidence to prove that they were actually very small and feathered. That kind of killed the whole crazy ass motherfucker idea of them in my head, it was very interesting nonetheless.

dammuzis · Post by **dammuzis** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:30 am

see i like this stuff, big problem ive always had with evolution is the "missing link" fossils they make up by putting random assortment of bones together

nice to know this is a complete skeleton

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:59 am

OuchyFish wrote:I am confidant that some dinosaurs mutated into birds, however the hangup I have is how the hell did they go from cold blooded to warm blooded? Unless it was possible for some dinosaurs to have been naturally warm blooded to begin with?

I knew I should have actually read those damn textbooks.

well, that's kind of the crux of the evolution hang up

not every dinosaur would have "mutated" into a bird, or even turned warm blooded

when the earth cooled a bit the cold blooded ones just died out, while those that were warm blooded were able to survive, and adapt

DESX · Post by **DESX** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:24 am

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. " -- Albert Einstein

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." --Albert Einstein

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

Post by **Arlos** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:40 pm

Well, if you want to think of Velociraptors just pretend they're Utahraptors. Very close cousins to velociraptor, they're just about the same size as the dinosaurs in the movie. If you really want to be freaked, imagine Megaraptor, that thing stood 10 feet tall and was > 20 feet long, and the huge foot claw IT had was something in the neighborhood of 18" long.

Oh, and in a further link between dinos and birds, something I saw on Science channel was the following: People have done skeletal structure and motion analysis on velociraptor front limbs, as well as bird wings. The arm motion generated by bird wings in flight (wings are just modified arms, really) is almost identical to the arm motion that a rpator would have used to grab its prey.

-Arlos

Jimmy Durante · Post by **Jimmy Durante** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:46 pm

AdivinaDarkfyre wrote:I have to say the only thing that dissapoints me, is I always liked to think of Velociraptors as they were depicted in Jurassic Park. Large, scaley, and scary as fuck. A while back I was watching a special on them on the discovery channel, and there is signifigant evidence to prove that they were actually very small and feathered. That kind of killed the whole crazy ass motherfucker idea of them in my head, it was very interesting nonetheless.

I take it you've also seen the documentary that depicts the T-rex as a scavenger as opposed to being a predator as previously thought? I *think* it was on Discovery as well, and the argument was quite convincing.

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:34 pm

Yeah I saw that, interesting. Saying that the T-Rex' arms and body shape would have made it a very unwieldy and weak combatant, so the theory was that it would stalk other predators, and after they made their kills would jump out and scare them with its size and stuff and steal their kills.

T-REX, THE ORIGINAL KSER!

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:59 pm

Yeah I saw that documentary. It was pretty convincing, good thing I didn't see it as a child. I love dinosaurs and thinking of TRex as a KSER would have crumbled my world.

Arlos - thx I can rest easier now knowing there are large happy raptors

DESX · Post by **DESX** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:08 pm

But.......a V REX from king kong would own a T-rex.

Donnel · Post by **Donnel** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:13 am

arlos wrote:just pretend they're Utahraptors

I thought the raptors were from Toronto and Utah had the Jazz?