The Passion

[Drunnken]

i too have thought this (about the faked ignorance to enrage), but never told anyone, funny how so many have thought it too

the ten year old girl rape analogy made me laugh so hard i got coffee on my monitor, it's worse than when i used to try to say that my brother punching just in front of my face was akin to attempted murder when i was 8 years old

edit: page 6 DING DING, i'm glad i don't have to have this post on the last page of totally ridiculous, kill yourself bullshit



let's start this page off with some not being a dipshit (after my post)

[catseye nameless]

What do you think of the Mormons and Catholics believing themselves to be Christians (by Biblical definition) after seeing Mormon doctrine and having read about what the Catholics believe in?

why would they define themselve with YOUR book if they have their own documents and beliefs. By my definition you believing in ghosts and gods and all this other fairy tale bullshit makes you insane, but somehow you'll probably figure out a way to make you, at least in your own world, seem sane. Why, because you dont care what my opinion and definition of sane and insane is, much like the mormons and the catholics could probably give a fuck less how you and the other protestants define "christian"

[Thon]

What do you think of the Mormons and Catholics believing themselves to be Christians (by Biblical definition) after seeing Mormon doctrine and having read about what the Catholics believe in?

i think anyone that actually believes in jesus or the bible is an idiot, to answer your question.

but that aside i don't know how you can say catholics arn't christian. considering catholocism has been around a millenia longer than any other denomination of christianity(or closer to 1500 years if you count the orthodox church as equally old).

i mean, last i checked jesus hasn't come down to earth lately. so i'd have to ask how any non-catholic(or possibly non-orthodox) christian is a christian? if the roman catholic church is the oldest church, and it's still around, it is the only church that could possibly claim legitimacy.

was Luther a prophet? Calvin? Or how bout any other ordained minister who starts his own church to get a tax break?

[Muglack]

What do you think of the Mormons and Catholics believing themselves to be Christians (by Biblical definition) after seeing Mormon doctrine and having read about what the Catholics believe in?

Since Vonkaar stopped reading and posting here, I'll field this one. Roman Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Non-Denominationals, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc... all consider themselves Christian for the same reason. THEY BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST WALKED THE EARTH. HE WAS A DIVINE BEING. HE WAS A MESSENGER OF GOD. HE WAS THE MESSIAH. HE WAS HERE TO SAVE US AND THE FUCKING JEWS KILLED HIM. That's it. It's that simple. From there they each went their seperate way. Your problem is that you're attaching a million sub-clauses that you feel should be automatically attached to the word "Christian". You're the one looking to far into it, you're the one trying to find the needle in the hay stack. The fact remains if you and your religion believe Jesus was all things I outlined before, BAM you're a Christian whether they live up to your definition of "a good Christian" or not.

You want everyone to fit into your perfect cookie cutter of Christianity, and when it isn't a perfect fit you dismiss them as heathens and heretics. NEWS FLASH ASSHOLE you haven't talked to God. You can only assume your book is right. The fact that you're arguing the Pope, the ENTIRE Roman Catholic Dioces, and College of Cardinals aren't Christians just boggles my fucking mind.

[Sokritize]

First of all, I am a Christian. We have been called to give an "account of the hope that lies within us". Nowhere does the bible instruct us to argue the word of God. You see, it is God's word and He is more than able to defend it. We are called to be a "light on a hill", to be "holy, for God is holy". We are to be God's representitives in the earth. Jesus never argued with people, he gave an account of the hope within and moved on. He never debated the truth of the word. You see Mindia, when we give an account of our faith and our beliefs, we are sharing the life resident inside of us. We are in a sense sowing a seed. Someone else may do the watering, and someone else might lead them to the Lord. People have free will and will decide and do whatever they want. That doesn't stop God from desiring that they come into the truth. Many people will not understand the Bible or God's existance, but nothing about God or His plan of salvation is logical. You cannot understand the Spirit with the mind, because "The mind is the enemy of the Spirit". Just to clarify some things, those of us in Christ cannot sin. The price has been paid for all sin, past, present and future. However, that does not prevent the natural law of seed, time and harvest from taking effect in our lives. The wages of sin is death. We are never told we cannot judge, we are told to judge righteous judgement. Anyways, it is best to let this thread die. A lot of damage has been done already.

[Thon]

who says people have free will?

but that's a whole nother can of worms :shock:

[Ganzo]

Muglack, Jews didn't kill JC, Italians did; but even if we did kill him, JC was also a Jew so it would be our internal affairs and still none of your business. But if you really need a Jew to worship and call your Lord and Shepard, I’m available, and you can be my sheep any time.

[Narrock]

Thank you Sokritize and Muglack. Seems that you two are the ones even capable of a serious conversation. The rest of you need either a Sylvan Learning Center tutor, or a psychologist.

Chad, I need to point out to you that my so-called "sub-clauses" are not even mine. I'm not making this stuff up or pulling it out of thin air. I've quoted verses in the Bible that prove my point over and over and over again. I don't know why some of you feel the need to be so blissfully ignorant when the message is clear as day, right in front of your nose. This is not my rendition of a perfect cookie cutter Christian. I'm being chastised for being the messenger... for quoting verses in the Bible that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Mormons and Catholics are doing things strictly against God's commands. Here's yet another example of mine which once again PROVES that I am right: FACT: Mormon's believe in many Gods. FACT: Mormon's have added to the Bible.

The 1st Commandment: "Iam the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

Deut.4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you."

Want more examples? I can give you more proof if you'd like

First of all, I am a Christian. We have been called to give an "account of the hope that lies within us". Nowhere does the bible instruct us to argue the word of God. You see, it is God's word and He is more than able to defend it. We are called to be a "light on a hill", to be "holy, for God is holy". We are to be God's representitives in the earth. Jesus never argued with people, he gave an account of the hope within and moved on. He never debated the truth of the word. You see Mindia, when we give an account of our faith and our beliefs, we are sharing the life resident inside of us. We are in a sense sowing a seed. Someone else may do the watering, and someone else might lead them to the Lord. People have free will and will decide and do whatever they want. That doesn't stop God from desiring that they come into the truth. Many people will not understand the Bible or God's existance, but nothing about God or His plan of salvation is logical. You cannot understand the Spirit with the mind, because "The mind is the enemy of the Spirit". Just to clarify some things, those of us in Christ cannot sin. The price has been paid for all sin, past, present and future. However, that does not prevent the natural law of seed, time and harvest from taking effect in our lives. The wages of sin is death. We are never told we cannot judge, we are told to judge righteous judgement. Anyways, it is best to let this thread die. A lot of damage has been done already.

First of all I'd like to say that I'm very happy to hear that you're a Christian. You said that "those of us in Christ cannot sin." What exactly did you mean by that? Christians still sin. We're supposed to try very hard to not sin, but we still do it. Jesus knows we will continue to sin, but he has forgiven us for it.

I agree with you that a lot of damage has been done, but to let this thread die is to give up, and I will not give up. I'm on a mission to make the people who have done damage to this thread to accept the truth. Once again, I am merely a messenger pointing out the wrongness of a couple different religions which should more accurately be labeled as "cults."

[Zanchief]

I worship at the shrine of Ganzo.

[Ganzo]

The 1st Commandment: "Iam the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

Deut.4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you."

Mindia, if you belive this, than entire New Testament is breaking of this second comandment you showed

ops forgot if you belive in first comandment, than worshiping Jesus, Trinity or anything else is breaking this comandment, and you can tell me all you want about JC being same as God who brought jews out of egypt, but all the proff JC had was his word

[Narrock]

Mindia, if you belive this, than entire New Testament is breaking of this second comandment you showed

Jesus came to fulfill the Law... not abolish it. He even worshipped on the Sabbath and kept all the other commandments. What are you talking about specifically?

[Thon]

i belive he is talking about the not adding anything bit. the entire new testament is new stuff.

can you possibly go like 1 post without completely shooting whatever pseudo-argument you make in the foot?

[Ganzo]

Deut.4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you."

Sorry will go into more detail, forgot that you used to read bad translations, just like the one above. Anyway whole text of that comandment in hebrew(original language old testament was writen in) beter translates as "Do not add to my word, and do not subtract from my word, but keep it as I gave you." By word of God here meant Torah* the book that was given to Moses. If you follow that comandment than all that was writen after like Kings, Prophets( Torah, Neveim(prophets), Ktuvim(kings) compose TaNaKh known to christians as Old Testament) and New Testament were writen by men, than jammed together with Torah into what you call Bible and claimed to be book of God, thus breaking that comandment

[Narrock]

I just want to know which commands Ganzo is referring to that Jesus has subtracted or added to. Read the post again Thon. You might get it the second time around.

[Ganzo]

read my reply Mindia

[Narrock]

Deut.4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you."

Sorry will go into more detail, forgot that you used to read bad translations, just like the one above. Anyway whole text of that comandment in hebrew(original language old testament was writen in) beter translates as "Do not add to my word, and do not subtract from my word, but keep it as I gave you." By word of God here meant Torah* the book that was given to Moses. If you follow that comandment than all that was writen after like Kings, Prophets( Torah, Neveim(prophets), Ktuvim(kings) compose TaNaKh known to christians as Old Testament) and New Testament were writen by men, than jammed together with Torah into what you call Bible and claimed to be book of God, thus breaking that comandment

But the Disciples who wrote the books were filled with the Holy Spirit (God) Himself, who told them to write it all down. I think He was referring to adding or subtracting after the Book of Revelation was written and the Bible was now completed.

[Ganzo]

But the Disciples who wrote the books were filled with the Holy Spirit (God) Himself, who told them to write it all down. I think He was referring to adding or subtracting after the Book of Revelation was written and the Bible was not completed.

You mean he was refering to Book of Revelation in Torah, 1500years before the Book of Revelation was writen. By your logic any book writen since Torah to this day can be considered writen by someone filled with "Holy Spirit" and "kosher", including so hated by you Book of Mormon

[brinstar]

no, you're being chastised for being a terrible debater

there are so many real-world facts presented here which you choose to ignore or disbelieve because they don't agree with your point (which i might add seems to change with every new page) and you take a great deal of unprovable passages in the great cultural mishmash of the bible as actual fact. and then you break out this one:

Interpret it as you want.

when the whole time you've basically been saying "Interpret it as I want."

you managed to two-legs-bad-four-legs-good vonkaar out of the thread, probably the most theologically-educated person in the whole thread (yeah, moreso than you), and guess what? it wasn't because of the subject matter being argued, it's because one can't argue with a brick wall upon which is painted "I'M RIGHT"-- one can certainly TRY, but it's an exercise in futility.

speaking of exercises in futility, let's talk about the notion of "trying to convince someone else that my interpretation of a centuries-old often-tampered-with trainwreck of a book whose integrity is questionable at best is FACT"

i'm sure you must know by now how easy it is to drop a few one-liners on you, to get in a few good jabs. but please take the fact that i'm taking the time and effort to actually try to reason with you as an act of good faith (lol pun). to avoid an accusations of bias, let me phrase it like this: I, an intelligent human being, beseech thee, an intelligent human being, to strive to adopt a debating style which does not cause reasonably intelligent, willing, friendly opponents to walk away shaking their heads in disgust."

to close, i'll quote something sokritize quoted: the mind is the enemy of the spirit. your attempt to argue with logic is overshadowing the light of your faith.

[Thon]

lol

[Zanchief]

ouch

[brinstar]

your attempt to argue with logic is overshadowing the light of your faith.

an image just popped in my head.

picture using an open light being refracted by a concave mirror to actively look into dark corners for living things. they'll run and hide, feeling threatened. at the same time, while the light is indeed being focused, what of the other half of the room? it receives very little light, because so much of the light source is being blocked by the mirror used to focus it.

now imagine setting the open light on the floor and walking away. at first all the living things are fearful, but the light is steady and lights up all parts of the room equally. before long, their curiosity takes over and soon the light source has a peaceful audience enjoying the warmth and illumination of the light source.

be a beacon, not a searchlight.

[Sokritize]

Brinstar, thats a nice dose of revelation. Light has never been the absence of darkness, but darkness is the absence of light. A beacon of light, couldn't have said it better. Many words profit nothing, action and the reflection of what you believe will draw people.

[catseye nameless]

The 1st Commandment: "Iam the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

Since when did "before" become synonymous with "only" if the mormons wanted to have 3 or 4 of those god things, couldnt they just make sure that that god thing that supposedly wrote these books or hung out in the peoples bodies that wrote them for him or whatever ghost stories your saying, as long as they kept that god guy #1 and the other gods the mormons like be like #2, and 3 and so on, wouldnt that still be ok?

[Tossica]

I am disappointed that my church sign didn't go over better.

Fuck this thread! Bring back the Wal-Mart thread!!!

[Pike]

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