The Bible and the errors within - A (long) religious post.

[Trielelvan]

true Christianity is the oldest religion in the world.

It is??
Er, someone lied to you, no?
"True" Christianity as in the belief that Jesus, God's only son and God incarnate, died for our sins to save us and allow us passage to heaven through Him, right?
You realize that Judaism predates Christianity by... let's see... almost 2000 years?

The fact that Christianity isn't the only religion out there with various denominations has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Christianity still is splintered, strewn, and has no sense of itself as a religion.
Yes, Islam has seperate denominations - 2 main ones to be exact: The Sunni, and the Shia (or Shi'ites) and after that, there are several small factions. But at their core, ALL of them believe the same. They all pray to Mecca, strive to make the pilgrimage, and all agree that there is only one God, and that Muhammad was his prophet.

Now, compare the beliefs of the Mormons and Roman Catholics... yeah, that pretty much proves my point up there.

Oh, and Christianity has nearly 50 official different denominations ranging from the Amish to the Unitarians (who believe neither that Jesus was the son of God, nor in the holy trinity).

Personally, I still think that the Bible is not to be taken literally, but metaphorically - aka: schooled and educated persons trying to convey concepts to a world of people that were much more simple and uneducated, like trying to explain a concept such as love or freedom to a very young child who is unable to really understand what those concepts mean to them as a person.

Donnel - get your facts straight before you try to *sk00l* people with your religious and self righteous ridiculousness. Turn on your brain

[Arlos]

Uh, Christianity started going at about 30-40 AD. Before that, it didn't exist. Judaism far predates Christianity. So do several other religions, actually. Buddhism possibly, Confuscianism almost definitely, certainly some flavors of paganism still followed today predate it, and I am sure a scholarly religious historian could find numerous other examples. (Australian aborigines' spiritual beliefs, possibly native american shamanasim, etc.) Oh, and you do also realize that the christ story is NOT a unique one? At the same time he was around, there were a good dozen other "messiahs" with almost identical stories: virgin birth, son of god, rose from the dead 3 days after being crucified, etc. Christianity just had better PR and marketing than the other ones.

If you believe that it doesn't matter WHICH denomination of christianity you follow, then congrats, you're more advanced than 90% of the other religious crowd. Still, who are YOU to tell the 3-4 BILLION people in the world who AREN'T christian, and who have beliefs just as strong as yours that they are somehow wrong or incorect? Why shouldn't they go door to door to YOUR house to try and convert you to Shintoism, say? (would certainly be a step up on the interest scale from the Jehova's Witnesses, for sure.) Remember, christ's main tenet was to love your neighbor as yourself, and treat him as you would have him treat you. So, if you want to tell him he's wrong in his beliefs, you have to allow him to instruct you on why YOU are wrong in yours.

Basically, just because you believe something doesn't give you any right to go out there and try and force other people to ALSO believe it. If you want to live your life to best exemplify the tenets of your religion, so that you serve as an example to people in your community, leading them to seek you out to ask you questions about your faith, that's perfectly OK. That's vastly different than most christian prosletizing, however, with the firey missionaries going out and telling people they are "DAMNED TO HELL FOR ETERNITY UNLESS THEY CONVERT." (Funny, if I'm not christian, muslim or jewish, I don't believe in the concept of hell, so why is threatening me with a place I don't remotely believe exists worrisome? Might as well threaten to send me to Tolkein's Middle Earth, since as far as I'm concerned, hell is just as much a literary fiction as Tolkein's stuff.)

Oh, and one last thing: Genesis is ALLEGORY, not literal truth. Got that? A L L E G O R Y. I respect believing that god created everything, brought the universe into existence, created animals & plants, and created humanity. He did not do it, however, in 4004 BC (which is the year you get if you trace back all the list of who begat who in the bible), nor were there any specific people "Adam" and "Eve". Yes, evolution is real. Yes, the earth really is 4-5 billion years old. Yes, the Big Bang really happened. Got all that? Probably not, but oh well.

-Arlos

[Martrae]

The Amish don't believe in Christ...they believe you get to heaven by good deeds.

[Trielelvan]

Actually, the Amish are very devout Christians with very strict Christian beliefs and practices such as the belief in a divine Christ, heaven and hell, receiving inspiration from scripture, and the church as the body of Christ.

They are Anabaptist (and this denomination pretty much is only practiced by the Amish and no one else).

[Minrott]

Fucking Amish remind me of third world muslim communities. Just last year, some Amish made the news here, a girl had been raped and molested for 5 years by 4 different men. But the community kept it quiet and "dealt with it themselves." There was a huge uproar about how they're their own community and don't live by our laws and enforce their own.

They "dealt with it" by punishing the men. They weren't allowed to go fishing for a whole month.

[Tossica]

My religion explains that my god created your god so therefore my religion is the oldest in the world.

[Martrae]

On a side note, many Amish where I live now own laptops and cell phones. They purchase solar rechargers for them.

As to the Christ thing....having Mennonite friends I was informed that the main difference between sects is Amish don't believe they get to heaven via Christ but thru good works.

[Thon]

the bit about christianity being the oldest religion really got me laughin. i was under the mistaken impression that christianity didn't start till jesus was around.

however, i'm pretty sure the oldest monotheistic religion comes from egypt, and predates even judaism. it might not have survived very long, but it was there. so even if you try and latch christianity onto judaism, it still wouldn't even be the oldest mono religion(to say nothing of the many polytheistic religions alreay well established).

islam does the same thing, it tries to tie itself in with the god of abraham to give it a legitimate base. much like an upstart ruler would claim to be descended from some great conquerer of the past, to try and rationalize why he could kill the old king and take over.

[Donnel]

If you don't believe that Adam and Eve were real, if you don't believe in literal Creationism, and if you don't believe in the Bible as being true, then you will not see Christianity as the oldest religion.

Does that make me wrong? No, we just don't see eye to eye.

I don't need to tell you that you are damned to hell. My religion teaches me that those who will be saved, will be saved whether I do anything or not.

I guess my question is, why do you have no bitterness to the other people who come door to door proslytizing? How dare they tell you that their religion is right and yours (or your lack of) is wrong?

And on a related note, why do you have such strong feelings against Christians? Oh wait, don't answer, see my Bible prophesied 2000 years ago that you would hate Christians, I already know the answer to that question.

[Martrae]

Adam and Eve weren't Christians.

There were no Christians until Christ was born.

Christ
Christian

Christ
Christian

See the pattern?

You are actually talking about early Judaism.

[Tossica]

Boy, I guess you sure told us Donnel.

See you all in hell guys!

PEACE!

[Donnel]

You say Christianity and what you refer to is one of the 50+ (your number) of divisions of a religion that is mulling about today.

I say Christianity and I mean the belief (not the religion) that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, that he lived a perfect life, that his death on the cross and ressurrection three days later was the needed sacrifice to allow a world who if they would repent of their sins could be saved from the eternal punishment that comes from a life seperated from it's creator.

When I say Christianity, it fits with Adam and Eve. Christ was the sacrificial lamb slain in the same way as the lamb slain to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness.

What was started in Genesis, was ended in Revelation with the banishment of Satan and all those who did not repent into the fires of Hell.

Believe what you will, I will beleive what I will. In the end we will see who was right.

Oh and for the record, I don't claim to be the one who is "right" here, I will leave that to the one who defined what is right and what is wrong.

finis

[Scoota McGee]

So you're saying Christianity existed beforee Jesus Christ... but no one knew about it. Doesn't that seem just a teensy bit like a cop out?

[Tossica]

Shut the fuck up.

[10sun]

I wish I was part of a cult and could be brainwashed one day a week since childhood.

-Adam

[Tuggan]

woah! adam and eve were runnin around with bibles? news to me.

[Donnel]

So you're saying Christianity existed beforee Jesus Christ... but no one knew about it. Doesn't that seem just a teensy bit like a cop out?

I'm saying that people define Christianity to be a specific church or building or set of rules. I am saying that this is incorrect. The church or building or set of rules is the denomination, where they chose how best to interpret what they believe.

The Christianity that I claim is the one that says everything I've already said it does.

[Tossica]

you are making up your own shit and claiming it's Christianity. That is no different than me making up a bunch of shit and calling it Tossicatholism.

[Arlos]

You misunderstood. I don't believe that ANY religion has the right to go around prosletyzing. Again: If someone wants to live their life in adherence to the strict rules of their faith, so that their life inspires others to voluntarily come and ask that person about said faith... That's perfectly OK. You (or anyone) going door to door, or to other countries, and prosletyzing either like the jehova's witnesses or the missionaries in 3rd world countries... Now that is flat out, categorically wrong, and should be banned. You have *NO* right to tell other people that their beliefs are wrong, none.

So, you believe in literal genesis. So, you believe the earth was created in 4004 BC? You don't believe in evolution? How do you explain dinosaur bones? How do you explain rock layers? Hell, how do you explain 10,000 year old cave paintings? How about those temples on Malta that date back 9-10,000 years? How was a "day" defined before there was a sun and earth? If Adam and Eve were the first people, and they just had 2 sons at first, Kane and Abel, where did all the people come from that Kane wandered among when he was banished? Shouldn't those 4 have been the only people on earth?

If the Bible is divinely written, why is it that what books are in the bible were selected by man, in vatican councils? Ever heard of the Apocrypha? The pseudopygripha? (sp) Those are the collected works that many thought SHOULD be in the bible, but those councils voted out. That's where you find the story of Lilith (Adam's first wife, supposedly), among others. How about the mis-translations? Recently was found that the whole "Parting of the Red Sea" is a mis-translation from the original. It is supposed to be REED sea, ie a tidal marsh area. Why is there no archaeological evidence whatsoever for a huge group of people wandering the deserts in Sinai, etc. from that supposed era?

Basically, the best way for the bible to make sense is to treat it as some history, some moral lessons, and a lot of allegory. Who are YOU to say that when god created the universe, people, etc. he didn't do it with the Big Bang? You can even argue that he created humanity by providing the spark that caused amino acids generated by lightning strikes in the primordial soup of the early oceans to generate into primitive life, and I wouldn't be able to argue with you. But to say the Earth was created in 4004 BC, and nothing existed before that, in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary... Well, that's when I'm forced to call you nuts.

-Arlos

[Donnel]

Okay, call me nuts, because it really doesn't matter which was my point in the beginning. I can argue with you til I am blue in the face, I have my evidences that contradict everything you just said from MY point of view. You will not agree with them because you don't want to, and because your science tells you otherwise. There is an explanation for the dinosaur bones, there is a reason why carbon dating doesn't work, there is a reason why there are rock layers, but you won't believe them because they come from allegorical stories as far as you are concerned.

I am done. No matter how much you beg me to come back and retort to another one of your "Christian's are retards posts" I will not be revisiting this thread. Just accept that everyoen believes something different, accept that if I don't call you a retard you shouldn't call me one, and we will be square.

[The Kizzy]

I like pie

[Tossica]

The sooner religious zealots are gone, the better off the human race will be. Believe what you like but do us all a favor and spare your children from the same ignorance bubble you enjoy your bliss in.

Sincerely,

Tossica
Official spokesperson of the rest of the human race.

[Tuggan]

dont be done yet, i wanna hear your explantion of dinosaurs and why carbon dating doesnt work.

[10sun]

fyi, Donnel = Mindia.

-Adam

[vonkaar]

First of all... Arlos is owning this thread.

Secondly...

What was started in Genesis, was ended in Revelation with the banishment of Satan and all those who did not repent into the fires of Hell.

Go back and read my 'brief history of the Bibles.' The book that you are so taken with is only a few hundred years old, at best. The religion that you call 'Christianity' is one of the youngest wide-spread religions in the world. There isn't a single sect that has more than a couple hundred years of history behind it... in current form. If you need me to show examples of why the Christians that butchered millions of innocents in the Crusades are of a COMPLETELY different religion than those today... I will.

You can BELIEVE that Adam and Eve worshipped Christ. With this line of thought, the BELIEF in Christ (by your history) could be explained as the oldest, but this statement relies on the acceptance that Adam and Eve not only existed, but were also followers of a man 5000 years unborn. None of this equates to actual 'proof' that Christianity is the oldest religion in the world. As a fact, it's one of the newest... which makes it even scarier. So many people all over the world base their entire lives... the lives of their countrymen... their moral codes... everything, on a set of books that were written, abridged, edited and organized by a few generations of self-serving criminals.