Engineers and science

Diekan · Post by **Diekan** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:08 pm

Had a nice little debate today with a couple of our company's engineers. Couldn't convince them that engineers are not scientists - no matter how much they want to believe it.

I have yet to meet an engineer that didn't think they were smarter than everyone around them. Seems to be a common personality flaw they all share, male or female. Is that one of thier undergrad prereq's "how to be arrogant 101?"

Why do these math nerds think they're scientists?

Post by **Martrae** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:28 pm

Probably their college degrees are Bachelors of Science.

dammuzis · Post by **dammuzis** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:32 pm

physics is a science

Ouchyfish · Post by **Ouchyfish** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:34 pm

sci·en·tist
n.
A person having expert knowledge of one or more sciences, especially a natural or physical science.

So I guess a scientist is basically a fancypants way of saying "I'm an expert."

By the way-just remind them that Jack Bauer would kick Chuck Norris' ass any fucking day of the week.

Captain Insano · Post by **Captain Insano** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:13 pm

lol if engineers were so fucking smart they would figure out a way to make more than 60k a year while working for some snotnosed punkass 26 year old with a business degree and a 3 series BMW.

Minrott · Post by **Minrott** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:53 am

Like working for my company. Which has none of them, because it realizes they're worth nothing. Chief Engineers here go upwards of 170k, and the current CEO is a previous engineer, not an MBA.

Engineers may not be scientists in the traditional lab coat wearing sense of the word, but they are scientists. They use scientific process to solve real problems, rather than create proof for theories.

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:01 am

captain_insano wrote:lol if engineers were so fucking smart they would figure out a way to make more than 60k a year while working for some snotnosed punkass 26 year old with a business degree and a 3 series BMW.

Those MBA jobs are becoming fewer and far between.

Meanwhile, when the company decides to 'rightsize' the engineer smiles and waves bye to the MBA who begins his new career at Starbucks.

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:03 am

captain_insano wrote:lol if engineers were so fucking smart they would figure out a way to make more than 60k a year while working for some snotnosed punkass 26 year old with a business degree and a 3 series BMW.

Those MBA jobs are becoming fewer and far between.

Meanwhile, when the company decides to 'rightsize' the engineer smiles and waves bye to the MBA who begins his new career at Starbucks.

Yes, almost all engineers believe they are scientists. Heck, I have a math degree and I readily admit I'm not a scientist, even if it's from a science discipline. :dunno:

I almost was an engineer, but I didn't have the requisite Asian lanuage skills to participate in the Cal Poly study groups in the 80s.

Snero · Post by **Snero** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:43 am

you can't really say engineers are full of themselves and say scientists aren't.

and Why do these math nerds think they're scientists?
because they are

Diekan · Post by **Diekan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 am

Engineers are not scientists.

Astronomers, biologists, chemists, physicists, geologists, etc are scientists. Science works to define, understand and solve the mysteries of natural phenomena. Engineers do not. A real scientist will create a hypothesis from a series of observations they’ve made and test that hypothesis to derive an explanation for those observations. Studying why black holes occur = science. Studying the functionality of DNA = science. Working on cures for disease = science. Building a bridge, or designing a new engine for a car does NOT = science.

I also get a kick out the degree “computer science.” LOL – science? What about computer programming, IT, or any other aspect of computer “science” is science? It’s not. It is, however, a nice flashy title though!

Generally speaking, the scientist will be paid much less than an engineer, or a computer scientist – but – with the title of scientist comes a certain intellectual prestige and acknowledgement. I think that this is why so many engineers want to be considered as scientists. Engineers ARE arrogant and DO think they’re smarter than everyone else around them. Go work with a few for a while, you’ll see.

Our machinists are constantly at odds with these people. The machinists KNOW what’s going to work and what’s going to fail – do the engineers listen? Hell no, then after the application, job, or whatever fails – they blame the machinists.

Think what you want – but engineers are not scientists.

Ouchyfish · Post by **Ouchyfish** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:12 am

Jack Bauer can kick Norris' ass regardless. You go and tell them that.

Diekan · Post by **Diekan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:19 am

no one can kick the chuck's ass. not even jack bauer!

dammuzis · Post by **dammuzis** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:30 am

diekan is obviously confusing theoretical and applied science

Post by **DangerPaul** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:31 am

Engineers drive trains.

Diekan · Post by **Diekan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:34 am

It's not "theoretical" science - it's basic science.

Anyone want to show me why engineers should be considered "scientists?"

Sithos · Post by **Sithos** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:58 am

Diekan wrote:no one can kick the chuck's ass. not even jack bauer!

Please refer to

http://www.ultimateshowdown.org

Snero · Post by **Snero** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:11 pm

engineers can be scientists too, but they aren't by the simple fact that they're engineers. The difference is theoretical and practical for the most part, scientists come up with the ideas, and engineers put them into practice.

Mathematicians are scientists too though

leah · Post by **leah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:27 pm

hehe mister rogers ftw

Captain Insano · Post by **Captain Insano** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:13 pm

Mister Rogers was a sniper in Vietnam. He woudl kill even chuck and then chop off his ears and make a happy necklace.

Samboa · Post by **Samboa** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:24 pm

I have a 3 series BMW.

Minrott · Post by **Minrott** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:03 pm

Our machinists are constantly at odds with these people. The machinists KNOW what’s going to work and what’s going to fail – do the engineers listen? Hell no, then after the application, job, or whatever fails – they blame the machinists.

omfg exactly and thank you. Fuck engineers. If they were so fucking brilliant I wouldn't have to redline all of the prints they send to me.

brinstar · Post by **brinstar** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:06 pm

wtf engineers drive trains nubs

The Kizzy · Post by **The Kizzy** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:25 pm

It depends on what kind of engineer in my opinion

Parv · Post by **Parv** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:01 am

It's because engineers have the understanding of the problem to relate it to the real world. Anyone can come up with theories on getting something to work, it's when you run into the limitations of what is actually possible that makes the big divide in scientists and engineers.

I work for a Fortune 500 company as an engineer. We are basically gods in the company, since we have the skillset to know all the technical elements and put them together, and we keep progressing the company forward. All the scientists and researchers have either spent their time in the field before moving on to research, or are wanting to get into the field as an engineer to make sense of what they're researching. The vast majority of management at all levels are/were engineers, not scientists or even MBAs. For us, engineering is far more useful than pure science - the science is born out of limitations that engineering runs into, and then engineering takes what science figures out and applies it.

Your engineers sound like they fucking suck if they're not listening to the machinists. I deal with warehousemen and I always listen to what they say regarding tools that they redress and work with, they're a detailed source of information on something specific. Anyway thoughts from a sleepy engineer! night ~_~

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." -- Nikola Tesla

-parv

Captain Insano · Post by **Captain Insano** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:08 am

Holy shit you engineer stuff and still have time to tour with Metallica?

Thats pretty amazing.