I have no words.

[Adivina]

1) How can you say she was not tortured? Does being beaten to death and suffocated with someone's hand and tape not sound like torture enough for you? Do you really need to see extra details, I think that is enough torment. Not to mention he was fucking raping her corpse, who knows if he did anything like that while she was alive. He beat her with a fucking cutting board... good lord I wish I could have a swing at him.

2) Death penalty is too good for people like this. Lethal Injection is akin to putting a pet to sleep, when an animal is put down its to make its death humane and remove them from suffering. Why should this man have something that we do as a humane act to our pets? He needs to be fucking tied out in a yard and beaten to death with a cutting board.

[Diekan]

2) Death penalty is too good for people like this. Lethal Injection is akin to putting a pet to sleep, when an animal is put down its to make its death humane and remove them from suffering. Why should this man have something that we do as a humane act to our pets? He needs to be fucking tied out in a yard and beaten to death with a cutting board.

Because the liberals will get their panties in a bunch over 'cruel and unusual' punishment. I'd rather he not be sent to prison to enjoy three square meals a day, medical care and all the other perks our joke of a criminal justice system provides for inmates. Don't have to use lethal injection - can use the ole sparky. Besides imagine the horror he's going to feel when he is sitting in that chair realizing that in a few minutes he'll be dead.

[Harrison]

There were times when I wish I had 3 square meals a day...

To think murderers and rapists had it when I was 6 years old and starving...

[Griever]

I can now sleep soundly knowing Harrison will protect the children of America!

Will, but am not allowed to...

I will assure you, I am a lot more effective than you would ever be.

I just hate statements that have no substance to them. There is no way you could ever make good on those words.

You might aswell have been saying, "Hey everone listen to what honorable and heroic things I could do, but can't, and adore me anyways".

[Harrison]

If you knew me, you'd agreee. *shrug*

I don't put on a show for this circus. I have 2 people here who would shoot me down if I started spouting lies.

[Minrott]

Protection from cruel and unusual punishment isn't because of people like Zanchief. It's a liberty given to us by our founding fathers. To break this in order to satisfy an emotional need for vengence goes against everything it means to be a member of free society.

Rather, put him in gen pop and tell everyone in there with him what he did. Jeffery Dahmer didn't make it long.

[Diekan]

I know, I was being sarcastic and taking a jab at our resident liberal posters.

[Harrison]

I agree with Minrott, completely.

[Yamori]

Ok... basically the problem with what you are doing here is failing to see the basic premise behind how individual innocent deaths occur.

You are equating slowly deliberated, extremely controlled murders of innocent people with numerous exit and avoidance possibilities - as being exactly the same as physical accidents, and deaths caused by the individual recklessness of the bottom dregs of society.

Look people. Innocent people die all the time under circumstances that may have otherwise been avoided.

Yes they do.

An innocent person dies at the hands of a drunk driver - yet I don't see you all up in arms to do really do anything about it. Could this have been avoided? Yes, and if you don’t see how, I’m not going to waste my time explaining it to you.

Probably because drunk driving wasn't mentioned in this thread.

A drunk driver is a private person. The death/injury they cause is due to them personally being a worthless piece of shit that acts recklessly. I don't have qualms about jailing them for a long time under manslaughter charges (particularly 2nd time offenders - 1st offenders can at least plausibly be given some leniency if they don't injure anyone and use it as a lesson in life and never do it again).

Innocent execution is done publically 'sanctioned', with public money, done very very slowly in a controlled, prepared, and ordered environment, under the slogan of protecting innocent people from violence.

Do you believe these two are the same in nature?

An innocent person dies in the crossfire of a police shootout - yet I don't see you screaming for the disbandment of police forces. This too could have been avoided if the police did this, or did that…

Uh, again, police shooting wasn't mentioned here.

Assuming the shootout has purpose:

Again, you're mixing up your premises on the nature of the deaths.

Shootouts are a response to heavy physical threat from criminals. It is a response to an immediate uncontrolled situation that can and does create immense risk to everyone nearby if the criminal threat does not go unchecked. Short of gross incompetence on the police side, shootouts are the creation of the criminal who elected to start firing his gun.

To equate getting caught in crossfire (immediate dangerous physical event) versus being executed (a lengthy, well ordered, controlled environment over a period of time that spans several years) is just silly.

One can only be prevented marginally - the other can be entirely prevented.

[quote]An innocent child gets mauled by a pitbull – yet you don’t come here wanting the breed outlawed. Maybe if the owner kept the dog under “lock and keyâ€

[Adivina]

Sorry but there is a difference between fucking up and cold blooded murder.

Drunk drivers are morons but the fact of the matter is the person did not get in the car and say fuck I want to torture someone, that will be fun. They are just ignorant and selfish, and I agree they need to be delt with more strictly but thats another topic all together.


Don't try and bring animals into this, I full well would hope you know the difference between a person and an animal. Animals act on instincts, as people we pride ourselves in having a judgement between right and wrong. Animals do not think about morals. Also, I believe if an animal kills someone the owner should be charged with unplanned murder, this is happening more and more often. Face it in the wrong hands an animal is just as bad any other weapon.

[Jay]

I think it's somewhat hypocritical how this guy did some gruesome things to this kid and is such a monster you guys are volunteering to do some similar gruesome things to him. Does he deserve it? Sure, but saying shit like "OMG I wanna kill this guy and torture him lawl penis" to me sounds like you're no better than he is.

I don't believe in the death penalty. I do believe in capital punishment. It's 2 different things. We hear a lot of complaints here about how our government has too much control over certain things. Personally, I'd feel a bit more comfortable with the government not controlling the choice of whether to kill you or not. If anything, like Jeffrey Dahmer, send em to jail and it will sort itself out.

And yeah, horrifying child deaths are normal to me. I hear about it on the news regularly. I read about it on NT, I see it in the paper, I read about it in books. I see it on the internet etc etc. You see anything enough times and you become desensitized to it.

[Markarado]

You see anything enough times and you become desensitized to it.

So you're saying that you've become disensitized to these kinds of acts? WOW..... I don't know what to say...

[kaharthemad]

I think what Dieken is saying and I wholeheartedly agree is, my sympathy begins and ends with that little girl, otherwise known as 'The Victim'.

[Hatak]

I also agree with Minrott.

[kaharthemad]

Actually Minrott has a good Idea. Make sure you Tattoo Child Molester/Killer on his forehead.

[Donnel]

I think it's somewhat hypocritical how this guy did some gruesome things to this kid and is such a monster you guys are volunteering to do some similar gruesome things to him. Does he deserve it? Sure, but saying shit like "OMG I wanna kill this guy and torture him lawl penis" to me sounds like you're no better than he is.

I don't believe in the death penalty. I do believe in capital punishment. It's 2 different things. We hear a lot of complaints here about how our government has too much control over certain things. Personally, I'd feel a bit more comfortable with the government not controlling the choice of whether to kill you or not. If anything, like Jeffrey Dahmer, send em to jail and it will sort itself out.

And yeah, horrifying child deaths are normal to me. I hear about it on the news regularly. I read about it on NT, I see it in the paper, I read about it in books. I see it on the internet etc etc. You see anything enough times and you become desensitized to it.

It's called a jury of your peers not a jury of government.

[vonkaar]

Innocent girl gets killed...
Innocent boy gets killed

blahblah


I could go on with all kinds of examples of innocent people being killed in avoidable situations, but hopefully you get the point.

Innocent people being killed in 'avoidable' situations? How are those 'avoidable' situations? If you are suggesting that drunk driving accidents somehow becomes 'avoidable' by me joining "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" than you have an incredibly skewed view on the word. I'm a member of Amnesty International, but how is that helping to 'avoid' the needless murder of thousands of prisoners across the world? You lumped 'accidents happen' in with, 'vicious acts of murder.' For an independant, that sure looked like some l33t republican spin.

We can't fix this broken judicial system very quickly or effectively... What suggestions can be made that could somehow GUARANTEE that justice prevails... EVERY time? There might be a hundred suggestions... great ideas from both sides of the line, but would it impact our freedoms? Would these changes take 100 years to bring about? Would such a thing even be possible? Probably not... But there is one single change that CAN prevent (help to avoid) needless accidents. If we aren't murdering prisoners, cool - no more accidents. How cool is that? Criminals are still punished, in a much harsher environment, for much longer, a 1/3rd the cost... and we don't have to worry about the GOVERNMENT making a mistake like that. Awesome - one change. TOTALLY preventable.

[Diekan]

No, but not getting behind the wheel cocked on 15 jack and cokes makes it avoidable. You make it sound like DUI is "just something that happens accidently and can't be avoided" which is bullshit.

A lot of situations could be avoided if people followed the rules. We're talking about the chance of our court system making a mistake and putting an innocent person to death.. And, I say that mistakes happen all the time that lead to people deaths, but you people don't come running here screaming for change, or banning the activity that lead to the death.

I love the idea of executing prisoners. I think we should kill more of them actually. The less human trash on the planet the better off we all are.

[Narrock]

Diekan wrote:

I love the idea of executing prisoners. I think we should kill more of them actually. The less human trash on the planet the better off we all are.

For which crimes? And was there credible eye witnesses to the crime that the perpetrator allegedly committed, or was their irrefutable DNA evidence which proves they did it beyond a resonable doubt? See, I used to think the exact way as you on this issue, but there's too many "what ifs" that come up. What if the alleged perpetrator really is innocent? What if we already did execute x-amount of prisoners in the name of justice?

I still support the idea of the death penalty on some level, especially when I think of the brutal ways in which some of the victims died at the hands of their assailants. Should we let the victim's family decide the fate of the accused perpetrator? Maybe. But I'd like to first see absolute irrefutable and incontestable evidence that the alleged perpetrator did in fact commit that crime.

[Adivina]

I'm sorry but I fully believe if you do something horrible to someone else you deserve nothing better than what you have done. Go ahead and call me a monster, I could care less. Say I am no better than him, its ok. Once you do something horrid you have lost any privilage to humane treatment under the law in my eyes. I think old school justice would be a lot more effective than anything we offer today. I don't care if it sounds cruel or barbaric, if you can torture someone you deserve to feel the pain that your victim felt. I have no sympathy for murderers.

Don't give me any lines about if the person was my family or friend I would feel different either. I've been there I've crossed that line and I don't feel any different. When you are actually in that situation you will most likely find that you don't feel any different either. I have heard people say that they hope their closest friend gets killed for the atrocities that have put others through, and I didn't blame them for a second.

[vonkaar]

Uh... I didn't get behind the wheel cocked on 15 jack and cokes?

So, how does it apply? We are talking about 'preventing' these mistakes... so, like... if I don't get drunk and drive... boom, problem avoided. Easy enough. Drunk driving accidents MOST CERTAINLY ARE [things] that happen accidentally and can't be avoided. People WILL drink, and many of them will drive.

We are talking about policy changes man, not personal choices. My joining MADD won't prevent YOU from driving over a 4 year old if YOU decided to get fucked up before you drove home. The planes will crash... Kids will drown at the beach... Bees will sting... Sharks will attack. None of these freaking apply because they are freaking ACCIDENTS. Now, if the US government was provoking the sharks and cultivating the killer bees - then we could argue that. If the IRS was encouraging people to drive while drunk... if the FBI was genetically modifying pit bulls to make them more agressive... We could lobby the senate and demand changes - no more shark poking! But for now, you are trying to liken slipping on an icy sidewalk and breaking your neck with a CIA assassin gunning you down in the street. One is an accident, the other is murder. Totally different things man.

[Gargamellow]

when an animal is put down its to make its death humane and remove them from suffering.

Excellent point.

I love the idea of executing prisoners. I think we should kill more of them actually. The less human trash on the planet the better off we all are.

I agree completely. Kill them all and let God sort them out.

my sympathy begins and ends with that little girl, otherwise known as 'The Victim'.

Absolutely.

There is no right answer here. Everyone here would push the button on this guy without a second thought. Now...what is the most recent update in this case?

I want to know if this guy has been assraped yet. If not, I will polish up my foot and give it a whirl.

[Adivina]

From the details of the case it also sounds like he has verbally described the crime, including her crying that she was sorry when he began to beat her, the combination of that and the fact that she was dead in his bathtub rather makes me remove any thoughts of "perhaps it wasn't him so we shouldn't kill him".

[Gargamellow]

I can't believe the courts even give second thought to shit like this.
When I am president, I will hand these bastards over to the families they destroy and let them handle it with their own brand of justice.

[Agrajag]

Stories like this make me wonder how people can disagree with the death penalty. Even if he has mental issues there's no reason why he should be kept alive.

The death penalty is a horrible policy - not for mercy towards killers - but for the defense of innocents.

No matter how horrendous it is for a twisted person to murder an innocent - it is twice as horrifying to imagine an innocent person kidnapped, imprisoned, and murdered by large numbers of men who proclaim to exist to defend him from causeless brutality.

Police investigations can be corrupt or lazy. Police can (and have - numerously) pressured people into false confessions. Judges and juries can be far too overzealous, ignorant of the ramifications of technical evidence, and/or blinded by their emotions. Poorer people can't often afford proper legal representation - particularly in complicated cases. And numerous other variables that can make even 'clear' looking cases incorrect in their judgements.

Even in cases where common sense says they are guilty (ie: body found in his apartment) - there is no objective, clear, and concise criteria to determine what is and is not a 'clear' case of guilt. It inevitably falls to vague, relative, and highly interperetable adjectives to determine death sentence criteria. And the problem with such is that vague criteria can and will be used overzealously by some officials. One man's "reasonable doubt" may be strict, while another's will be very loose. All it takes is one reckless judge or jury on a punishin' spree to be responsible for murdering dozens of innocent men in the name of the law (ie: Texas).

Combined with the fact that the appeals process is more expensive than life imprisonment, it simply isn't worth it. To say 'get rid of or lower the number of appeals' would be absolutely insane, for the exact reasons stated above - a good number of cases ARE appealed, preventing innocent people's government sanctioned murders.

That aside, life in prison is far more punishment than the death penalty. Death row inmates are isolated, and hence (relatively) more comfortable than normal inmates. Normal inmates have to deal with the threat of stabbings, beatings, rape, and generally having to deal with utterly violent, impulsive, irrational brutes on a daily basis (with pretty much NO safeguard against such whatsoever) for the rest of their lives.

But at least life imprisonment can be reversed if the sentenced is later found innocent - death can't.

How much time did you waste writing this nonsense? If someone kills another person and they are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their piers they should fry, hang, suffocate or whatever other ways they do it, now.

Hell, I think it should be televised! Put the executions on late night cable access. Better yet, give them their own channel; DTV (Death Television). Then all you pansies can just turn it off and pretend the world is nifty. FAG!