I have no words.

[kaharthemad]

yeah as a matter of fact i did. I never killed anyone. As I recall dipshit, this thread is not about drugs, its about murder and the death penalty. And to bring this up in this thread is about as stupid as you can get Zan.

The irrelevance is amazing.

[Adivina]

Isn't the fact that he got over his addiction a comendable thing? I don't understand how you are rubbing something he has moved on from and bettered himself from, in his face all the time?

[Zanchief]

yeah as a matter of fact i did. I never killed anyone. As I recall dipshit, this thread is not about drugs, its about murder and the death penalty. And to bring this up in this thread is about as stupid as you can get Zan.

The irrelevance is amazing.

It's not about murder it's about the death penalty and decriminalization. If you were really that outraged by crime you'd walk right to your nearest police station and write down all the bad stuff you did in your life. Remember, there is no hope for criminals to reform, so you’re fucked.

[Diekan]

I have NO problem with trying to "reform" criminals who commit lesser types of crimes. As I stated before, no I don't think someone who steals a car should be locked up and forgotten about. I'm all for teaching them an employable skill and helping them get their life on the right track while serving their time. I have no problem with reforming someone busted for drugs, hooking, or any other seemingly less violent type crime.

But, no, you do not deserve to be reformed when you rape or murder someone, or molest a child. Sorry, but you made the choice, why the hell should you get a second chance? Why do you deserve anything but at the very least being locked away from society for the rest of your natural life?

Do I make concessions for the mentally ill? Of course... I'm talking about perfectly sane people who knowingly and willingly pull the trigger, so to speak.

And as for the "liberal minded" comments. Hey, face it, it IS because of various liberal groups - like the ACLU - who are responsible for prison being the country club it is now. It wasn't the conservatives or moderates who pushed and sued and pushed and sued to get cable TV in prison.

The US has more repeat offenders than any other nation. Why? Because prison isn't a punishment. Groups like the ACLU have seen to it that the days of "The Rock" and chain gangs have gone the way of the dinosuar. Go ahead and take out the cable TV, reduce the medical care to the very basics, take away the basketball courts and impose rules that only allow a triple murder one hour of "fresh air" a day and see how fast the ACLU files lawsuit after lawsuit.

I said it before - I would have little problem with doing away with the death penalty if prison was a real punishment and where life meant life. But, your buddies at the ACLU will never let that happen.

How can the "fear" of prison deter anyone from committing crime with the way it's run now?

[kaharthemad]

yeah as a matter of fact i did. I never killed anyone. As I recall dipshit, this thread is not about drugs, its about murder and the death penalty. And to bring this up in this thread is about as stupid as you can get Zan.

The irrelevance is amazing.

It's not about murder it's about the death penalty and decriminalization. If you were really that outraged by crime you'd walk right to your nearest police station and write down all the bad stuff you did in your life. Remember, there is no hope for criminals to reform, so you’re fucked.

as I said, dipshit. It is about murder. there is no reform for them. If I slip off the wagon all I hurt is myself. You are comparing apples to oranges. and because you cannot place to inteligent words together to form some debate other than 'Hug a Murderer Fuck the Victim'. You bring up something that happened 10 plus years ago.

So you think somone like Charles Manson can be reformed and can be released to lead a normal life? You mind if we move him in next to you then?

What I am asking for is for harsher punishments including the death penalty for cases that there is as they 'A gross orgy of evidence' such as admission of guilt, murder where there is a nice video feed and dna show spanky dusting the manager of a Discount Bob's with a shotgun.

If you murder do you think at anytime later in life he can be trusted?

[Hatak]

I said it before - I would have little problem with doing away with the death penalty if prison was a real punishment and where life meant life. But, your buddies at the ACLU will never let that happen.

How can the "fear" of prison deter anyone from committing crime with the way it's run now?

Now, that makes more sense to me. Yeah, I think they should bring back the chain gangs and the harsh environment of Alcatraz. Use the prisoners on the chain gangs to do the jobs that the illegal immigrants are doing that supposedly no one else will do.

The lack of "fear" of prison reminded me of "Office Space" when they were discussing a minimum security prison to be more of a resort than a regular "pound me in the ass" prison.

[Zanchief]

yeah as a matter of fact i did. I never killed anyone. As I recall dipshit, this thread is not about drugs, its about murder and the death penalty. And to bring this up in this thread is about as stupid as you can get Zan.

The irrelevance is amazing.

It's not about murder it's about the death penalty and decriminalization. If you were really that outraged by crime you'd walk right to your nearest police station and write down all the bad stuff you did in your life. Remember, there is no hope for criminals to reform, so you’re fucked.

as I said, dipshit. It is about murder. there is no reform for them. If I slip off the wagon all I hurt is myself. You are comparing apples to oranges. and because you cannot place to inteligent words together to form some debate other than 'Hug a Murderer Fuck the Victim'. You bring up something that happened 10 plus years ago.

So you think somone like Charles Manson can be reformed and can be released to lead a normal life? You mind if we move him in next to you then?

What I am asking for is for harsher punishments including the death penalty for cases that there is as they 'A gross orgy of evidence' such as admission of guilt, murder where there is a nice video feed and dna show spanky dusting the manager of a Discount Bob's with a shotgun.

If you murder do you think at anytime later in life he can be trusted?

You keep bringing up the victims as if they are being further fucked over by letting these people live. Please explain to me how a corpse is being victimized by not having someone share the plot next to them?

[kaharthemad]

I am pointing out to you that if there is no hope of reforming them then kill them. Do we keep rabid dogs chained up in pens in hopes we can 'save' them later?
If he is going to rot away in prison for the rest of his life and such the coin out of our economy then shoot him and get it over with.

[Zanchief]

OR we can rise above the violence and let him live the rest of his life in captivity.

[kaharthemad]

ahh so caging him like a animal is humane? No thanks put a bullet in me.

let see...35,000 USD a year to house, feed, and close someone that is useless to society...lets say he lives 20 years...700,000 USD

1 bullet 50 cents.

Sorry your rise above the violence does not wash with me. You want to fix the violence? Bring back public executions, get rid of cable tv and college degrees in prison. make a channel on cable TV showing live feed of inside San Quentin, when some kid sees another inmate get shanked over a bar of soap or when some con takes it up the ass by his girlfriend Frank it will go along way for deterring crime.

[Diekan]

yeah as a matter of fact i did. I never killed anyone. As I recall dipshit, this thread is not about drugs, its about murder and the death penalty. And to bring this up in this thread is about as stupid as you can get Zan.

The irrelevance is amazing.

It's not about murder it's about the death penalty and decriminalization. If you were really that outraged by crime you'd walk right to your nearest police station and write down all the bad stuff you did in your life. Remember, there is no hope for criminals to reform, so you’re fucked.

as I said, dipshit. It is about murder. there is no reform for them. If I slip off the wagon all I hurt is myself. You are comparing apples to oranges. and because you cannot place to inteligent words together to form some debate other than 'Hug a Murderer Fuck the Victim'. You bring up something that happened 10 plus years ago.

So you think somone like Charles Manson can be reformed and can be released to lead a normal life? You mind if we move him in next to you then?

What I am asking for is for harsher punishments including the death penalty for cases that there is as they 'A gross orgy of evidence' such as admission of guilt, murder where there is a nice video feed and dna show spanky dusting the manager of a Discount Bob's with a shotgun.

If you murder do you think at anytime later in life he can be trusted?

You keep bringing up the victims as if they are being further fucked over by letting these people live. Please explain to me how a corpse is being victimized by not having someone share the plot next to them?

You're missing the entire point. The victims keep being brought up because the families (and often the victims themselves in some cases) aren't getting any justice.

Say your sister (pretend you have one) is out and about one the town one night. During the course of her evening she get's kidnapped, raped and murdered. They catch the guy, he gets tried and sent away for "life." During his so called "life" sentence (which is actually probably about 15 years), he'll enjoy a fairly comfortable existence with all the perks. You call that justice? He gets out of prison after 15 years, fat, happy and ready to do it all over again.

THAT'S the problem. Prison is not a punishment. That's why, I believe, so many people are pro-death penalty. They know the prison systems are a freaking joke. They only way they can see any real justice being done is if the fucker gets fried. It's not always a matter of revenge. Sometimes it's just a thrist to see real justice served on people who deserve punishment.

[Zanchief]

Sorry your rise above the violence does not wash with me. You want to fix the violence? Bring back public executions, get rid of cable tv and college degrees in prison. make a channel on cable TV showing live feed of inside San Quentin, when some kid sees another inmate get shanked over a bar of soap or when some con takes it up the ass by his girlfriend Frank it will go along way for deterring crime.

Sounds like a great way to encourage violent behaviour in everyone. I'm sure people watching public executions every week will grow up to be productive and sane people.

[Zanchief]

You're missing the entire point. The victims keep being brought up because the families (and often the victims themselves in some cases) aren't getting any justice.

Say your sister (pretend you have one) is out and about one the town one night. During the course of her evening she get's kidnapped, raped and murdered. They catch the guy, he gets tried and sent away for "life." During his so called "life" sentence (which is actually probably about 15 years), he'll enjoy a fairly comfortable existence with all the perks. You call that justice? He gets out of prison after 15 years, fat, happy and ready to do it all over again.

THAT'S the problem. Prison is not a punishment. That's why, I believe, so many people are pro-death penalty. They know the prison systems are a freaking joke. They only way they can see any real justice being done is if the fucker gets fried. It's not always a matter of revenge. Sometimes it's just a thrist to see real justice served on people who deserve punishment.

If that happened to MY sister (I do have one) I would be way to emotional involved to decide what would happen to those people. Thankfully there are people who are supposed to decide these things objectively.

[Jay]

[Snero]

THAT'S the problem. Prison is not a punishment. That's why, I believe, so many people are pro-death penalty. They know the prison systems are a freaking joke. They only way they can see any real justice being done is if the fucker gets fried.

This is where we totally disagree, you can reform the prison system, you can be outraged about how easy they have it and i'll be totally behind you, but when you start with the argument that it's either that or frying them, you lose me.

And when people in general start screaming for the death penalty, it isn't because of the cushy prison system, it's because they want revenge

[kaharthemad]

I follow the rabid dog scenerio. Some people will never be able to be released to the public...these people should be shot. Im tired of paying for them.

[Lyion]

Why spend money when we can turn crinimals into high ratings reality TV programs?

[Tossica]

I follow the rabid dog scenerio. Some people will never be able to be released to the public...these people should be shot. Im tired of paying for them.

Whatever you say Saddam.

[Ouchyfish]

Why spend money when we can turn crinimals into high ratings reality TV programs?

[vonkaar]

Holy fucking shit... this happens every fucking time... every fucking death penalty debate.

Nobody is bringing up 'reform' but the pro-death penalty people. Are your points vs 'our' arguments so weak that you have to bring in more 'arguable' issues to discuss? Haha.

And as for the "liberal minded" comments. Hey, face it, it IS because of various liberal groups...

rofl
Alright, so... 'they' blahblah... wtf, we aren't talking about fucking reform. Nobody brought that up. Ohnoes, the liberals are letting the mexicans in! Confuse the issue even more! God...

Cliffs, of what we are discussing:

The morality of taking another human life
The judicial system and due process
Kahar's tiny wang

[Agrajag]

Cliffs, of what we are discussing:

The morality of taking another human life
The judicial system and due process
Kahar's tiny wang

[kaharthemad]

retracted due to a misunderstood post.

[vonkaar]

Yeah see personal insults are ok in Current affairs as long as your a dead beat failed admin that could not keep a fucking job. What the matter vonk? Your underage girlfriend leave you or did her father come and finally drag her ass back to grade school? Or is it because you finally made supervisor at Wendys and can afford the internet again and post?

[Lyion]

You did insult the mans wang.

Wars have been fought over less, as have 500 page NT message board threads.

p.s. Kahar, that was meant to be a funny, but new Vonk isn't as subtle as old Vonk.

[Tossica]

Looks like Vonk struck a nerve... a really tiny one.