Gun questions, curiosities?

[Minrott]

If you have them, please ask me. This will be for technical information only, whether it be with physical statistics of firearm performance, or law questions, etc. No political postulating.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether guns are good or bad for us. What drives me insane is when people form this opinion based on second hand accounts of a 40 year old story, or even worse, how guns are portrayed in movies or television.

Whether you're for or against, if you have a question I'd love to answer it so that you can make whatever stance you choose on true information.

To start off, no, a .50 caliber rifle cannot shoot an airliner out of the sky from 4 miles away.

Yes, a .22 bullet shot at a 42.5 degree angle into the air can come down on your house 1.5 miles away and penetrate through your living room wall.

Ask me anything, if I don't know it, I know I have the answer in a book in my shop and I'll look it up.

[Narrock]

Since there is no good reason(s) whatsoever to ban gun ownership... I won't postulate politically. That being said I'll proceed with my question. I already know the answer to this, but I'll ask you to see what your answer is. Can an "unloaded" firearm kill someone?

[Spazz]

Dude you know an unloaded weapon can still kill someone. my .44 weighs like 25 million pounds. Im sure even with no bullets i could beat someone to death with it.

[Narrock]

Dude you know an unloaded weapon can still kill someone. my .44 weighs like 25 million pounds. Im sure even with no bullets i could beat someone to death with it.

Who's the manufacturer of your burner?

[The Kizzy]

They are saying that there are confirmed reports that snipers are killing with deadly accuracy from 2.5 miles away. Any truth to this?

[Narrock]

You can't scope somebody in your sights and hit them at 2.5 miles away, even with a 7.62mm round (the most common sniper rifle round) which has a velocity of 2750-3000 fps (feet per second.) You would have to aim at a certain degree angle above them in order for the bullet to hit them, so yes it can be deadly even at 2.5 miles away. You just have to know how far above them to aim to achieve accuracy.

[Spazz]

Smith and wesson 629 classic mindia. Its a real thing of beuaty

[Narrock]

Get rid of that nickel-plated sissy-pistol and get yourself a Sig or Beretta.

[Jay]

I have a bazooka

[Phlegm]

I have a bazooka

This is a gun thread, not gum.

[Arlos]

Urban legends, I'd think. The further the bullet has to travel the more impact environmental conditions will have on it. (wind, etc.) I'm sure things as mundane as the humidity level in the air will impact it as well. I doubt even an excellent marksman could hit a human-sized target 1 time in 100 tries at 2.5 miles, certainly not with a 7.62 round. Barrett 50, chances might rise a tiny bit (heavier bullet, less deflection from wind, etc.) Also, at shots at that kind of range, you need to account for the curvature of the earth as well as the impact the earth's rotation has on the shot, which will differ depending on what latitude you're at. Not to mention, the velocity loss at that range means the round isn't going to do much when it gets there, unless it itself is explosive.

So, ultimately, while it might be POSSIBLE to do, the odds of someone being able to do it even remotely reliably are about nil. OK, just did a quick Google. Here's something from the UK's army's own website:

Sniper Rifles

The L96 Sniper Rifle is accurate enough to achieve a first round hit at 600 m and achieve harassing fire out to 1000 m. The rifle is normally fitted with the Schmidt and Bender 6 x 42 telescopic sight. The front bipod is fully adjustable and folds away when not in use. Eight trained snipers are equipped with this weapon as part of Manoeuvre Support elements within the BG. Snipers are masters of camouflage, concealment and operating alone for long periods. L96 fires ball and armour-piercing ammunition.

The L115A1 8.59 mm Long Range Rifle (LRR) provides units with enhanced sniper and sharpshooter capabilities. LRR fires ball and armour-piercing ammunition.

L96 Sniper Rifle

Calibre: 7.62mm
Weight: 6.5kg
Length: (adjustable) 1124-1194mm
Muzzle velocity: 838m/s
Feed: 10-round box
Effective range: 900m, harassing fire 1100m

L115A1 Long Range Rifle (LRR)

Calibre: 8.59mm
Weight: 6.8kg
Length: 1300mm
Muzzle velocity: 936m/s
Feed: 5-round box
Effective range: 1100m plus

Now, 1100m is about 3600 feet, or just about 2/3 of a mile. Now, it says 1100+, so fair to say it goes out to 3/4 a mile, or maybe even a full mile.

Now, as for the Barrett 50, here's what http://www.snipercentral.com/m82.htm has to say:

Max Effective Range 1830 meters

(Note that in the article where someone tested it, they found the real ranges to be more 1000-1500 meters, but we'll go with the manufacturer's claim). 1830 Meters is about 6000 feet, or a mile and 1/8 or so. So, given that even the Barrett manufacture doesn't even claim an effective range of even half of your lower estimate, I think it's pretty safe to claim snipers aren't going to be taking people out at 2.5-3 mile ranges with rifles. Hell, even the .50 cal heavy machine gun (which is too heavy to really be terribly man-portable) only lists an effective range of 2000m, which is about 1.25 miles.

About the only infantry carried weapon that will reliably reach out and at least get close to someone who's 3 miles away is a mortar. So, I suppose if you wanted to assassinate someone 3 miles away, you get a laser homing mortar round, get someone to paint the target with a targeting laser, and lob a shell on over.

-Arlos

[Minrott]

The current record for a confirmed kill at distance is slightly over 2,000 meters. So while yes, bullets from something the size of a .50 or 12.7mm would have the ability to kill, with current systems they're not accurate enough to do it.

Remember the first time a .50 was used for this it was Carlos Hathcock Jr. in Vietnam, who mounted a scope to a Browning M2 and squeezed off on a VC carrying ammunition on a bicycle at over 2,000 meters.

Over a mile yes, 2.5 never.

[Minrott]

After reading literature from Barretts booth at the NRA convention they claim their new .416 round to be effective at 2500 meters. Still not even close to two miles.

Assuming you only had to elevate the rifle 10 degrees to compensate for drop over 2.5 miles, so you could aquire a target that distance in your scope, the most accurate rifles of calibers that size only fire 1 to 1.5 MOA accuracy. 1 MOA at 100 yards is approximately a 1 inch group. At 2000 yards it's a 20 inch group. You're only halfway there and your groupings are already spreading into the extremities of a human target, meaning no matter how good a marksman is, the rifle simply can't be expected to connect at that distance.

[Lyion]

They are saying that there are confirmed reports that snipers are killing with deadly accuracy from 2.5 miles away. Any truth to this?

It's called a cruise missile.

[Gaazy]

i cant imagine someone being skilled enough to be able to adjust the scope's angles well enough to hit someone that far away, that woul dbe bad ass though

[Minrott]

That's just it, the most adjustment any rifle scope has is 100 MOA. There's simply only so much room in a 30mm or 35mm tube for the inner tube to be moved around in. To compensate for this some long range rifle scopes are mounted with a 20 MOA drop built in to the mounting surface, but even with a .50 BMG's ballistic coefficient the scope would be have to be pointed down at such an angle that the barrel of the rifle would intersect the line of sight to the target.