Suns vs. Mavericks

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:01 am

And you probably woudn't have amnestied Finley and you could have picked up other players along the way.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:10 am

The point is, it would have been a COMPLETELY different team...

and most importantly... Nellie would have never retired...

Losing Nash was the BIGGEST catalyst to that. He loved the little Canadian.

aaand, no change is as big or important as Avery Johnson.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:13 am

So you think your better without Nash, Vonk?

Or the team you have now would be better than the team you'd have with him.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:19 am

"This" team is the best team the Mavs have ever seen. Easily. The 89 team was amazing... very well rounded, but even Rolando Blackman said that they would be steamrolled by this current Mavs team. He said that nobody on that old Mavs team would have a chance at guarding Dirk. No team we've ever assembled should ever have beaten San Antonio, except this one - they were ALWAYS the better team... except this year.

That's what teams and writers keep saying about us... 'the most remarkable thing'... Despite losing 2 of our 3 best players, we keep improving... That's why I downplay the whole "ohnoes, phoenix lost Amare" argument. Dallas loses Nash and he's the freaking MVP that year... we still managed fine. The next year, we look poised to go the the freaking finals.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:22 am

Yea, put I think a lot of that is due to Josh Howard getting better and better, and this year, Devind Harris.

WIth Nash you'd still have Josh. Devin you probably wouldn't have, but you'd have Jamison to either keep or trade so I think you'd be just as good if not better. Hard to say I guess.

Snero · Post by **Snero** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:09 am

they may have traded for harris still though, nash was viewed as getting older and soft, plus with nash's big deal getting rid of jamison would have helped with the salary cap

the trade still makes sense to me, even if nash is there

Rotj · Post by **Rotj** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:40 pm

what were the scouting knocks on josh howard which made him slip so low btw? he's making those scouts look like big time fools lately

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:23 pm

Some were afraid that he had no offense...
Weak athlete :teehe:
Others said that he had a bad back :dunno:

Here, this is from NBADraft.net... which has a cool bit of trivia at the bottom:

NBADraft.net wrote:Strengths: A rangy wing with good height for the NBA SG position. Plays big for his size due to his long arms, and could see time at the SF position. Team player with great competiveness and leadership qualities. Handles the ball effortlessly, and plays under control most of the time with patience and a solid understanding of the offensive game. Has a variety of moves including a baby hook shot, good fakes, and under-the-basket scoop shots. Vision and passing ability are another asset. One word, solid. He is solid at everything, and there's nothing that he can't do at least adequately. A very good rebounder for a wing player. Has quick hands, and is a solid all around defender, and also a very good man-defender who could become a great defender if he works at it. He really attacks the glass and his long arms make him a formidable rebounder. Looks quite coachable. Howard's game is polished and he has the tools to be a solid pro. He has the experience that many players don't with four years of college under his belt. Teams seem to be leaning towards experience and intstant contribution over potential, more so than in the past, and this should factor in his favor.

Weaknesses: His scoring ability is good but his outside shooting can improve. Not a great three point shooter, but he's good enough to keep a defender honest. He will need to develop better range to be a consistent scorer at the next level. Has good handle, but can get careless and must get better at protecting the ball. Howard's athleticism is not overwhelming and wont stand out on the next level. His first step isn't as quick as many NBA wing players. His overall speed is average. His feet aren't the quickest, making him a little slow with his lateral quickness. Has good leaping ability, but explosion on his jumps is average. Not as fluid an athlete as someone such as ex-Minnesota wing Quincy Lewis, however his intangables are much better.

Notes: Now in his Senior season he is the favorite for ACC player of the year, and a candidate for National Player of the Year. When he first arrived at Wake he was a raw talent, but still had an impact averaging 9.3 PPG. He has steadily improved in each of his four seasons. When Howard was three years old his legs had grown crooked. So he had to have them "broken" by doctors and reset. He had to wear casts on both legs for quite a while. This led to him working very hard to improve his leg strength--which can be seen by his outstanding leaping ability. His great work ethic today could be a result of having to overcome this.

Their 2003 mock draft is a great read too... they even said to not be surprised if Darko takes the #1 spot from Lebron. How shitty would that have been?

http://nbadraft.net/2003prospects.htm

The main thing was that it was the richest draft in recent memory and everyone was so excited about the top 15... Everyone outside of that group was sort of ignored. Howard would have been top5 in any other draft... he was the *uninimous* ACC player of the year out of Wake Forest... the only other player who has EVER done that was Tim freaking Duncan.

Nellie wasn't interested in trading up for a higher pick... he had his eye on 3 people that he 'thought' might slip that far down the draft. Boris Diaw, Josh Howard and James Jones, in that order. It's telling how all 3 of his main guys turned out to be ballers. After Marquis Daniels wasn't picked, they immediately called him in to work out for them in their Summer camp.

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:21 pm

vonkaar wrote:"This" team is the best team the Mavs have ever seen. Easily.

It'll be funny if the Suns beat them in this series. Then I guess losing Nash wasn't such a good idea.

And Stevie'll be the reason why, kicking D'Antoni's system into overdrive.

Phlegm · Post by **Phlegm** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:18 pm

lyion wrote:It'll be funny if the Suns beat them in this series. Then I guess losing Nash wasn't such a good idea.

And Stevie'll be the reason why, kicking D'Antoni's system into overdrive.

Didn't Nash and the Suns beat Dallas in 6 games last year?

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:20 pm

Phlegm wrote:Great game tonight. This series will go seven games.

lyion wrote:This ones going 7.

Hopefully Miami will beat Detroit, also.

Zanchief wrote:This thing is going to 7

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:25 pm

Bizarre. Still trying to figure out how Phoenix gave that game away. They should've had it in the bag.

Miami and Dallas. Should be fun. Nice to see two new teams.

Rotj · Post by **Rotj** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:43 pm

haha you gonna celebrate with your dallas boyz vonk?

quite cool two franchises which have never made the finals..now make it this year.

Post by **Arlos** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:06 am

Nice Bill Simmons article on this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ons/060602

-Arlos

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:24 am

Reynaldo wrote:THEN I'm an idiot!

Seriously though. The spurs had no business winning 3 straight against the obviously better mav's team. Officiating pulled it to 7 games, but then they backed off in game 7, so that the better team in the series (Mavs) would win.

Thats how it's been in every series so far this postseason.

I hope you sent your apology to David Stern.

Post by **Arlos** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:26 pm

From an article in the Miami Herald, it's Shaq talking about Dirk:

''The game is changing and the rules are changing,'' said the Heat's Shaquille O'Neal, who will face the problems Nowitzki's rare mobility brings to his position.

``The NBA centers are going more toward the European player. I tell my kids you won't be able to play the game your daddy played. It's becoming a different game.

''He [Nowitzki] is where the big-man game will be in four or five years,'' O'Neal added. ``When you talk great big men, it'll be based on whether guys can play like Dirk or not. Stepping out, shooting the three, midrange game and the low-post game. I'm going to actually let my children watch his game.''

Sounds like Shaq's a fan of the big D.

-Arlos

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:35 pm

Nah, the game evolves but Shaq's selling himself short (heh). There will always be a need for a dominant inside big man. I could even see the idea of 'another Dirk' before I'll see 'another Shaq' in the next 20 years... and I'm about as big of a Nowitzki fan as you'll find - anywhere. It's just 'flavor of the month' with the NBA... 5 years ago, Sacramento was the toast of the town... fast as hell, can score outside with Peja and Bibby and a crazy inside game with Webber... but the fast break was the killer... People talked about building their teams with the Nellie system. That NEVER works. Then, Detroit and San Antonio started killing everyone with a "what offense?" system... KILL you with their crushing defense... everyone started building around that... big, shot-blocking centers were the primary target in the draft... then the rules changed and the game sped up... so smaller forwards and guards were needed... it's constantly changing...

but there will ALWAYS be a CRITICAL place in every team for someone like Shaq.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:34 am

You'll always need someone who can defend the post and score inside. It's just the way basketball is.

Post by **Lyion** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:35 am

We need some series predictions.

I say Dallas in 6.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:37 am

Dallas in 5.

Snero · Post by **Snero** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:17 am

dallas in 7

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:21 am

Anyone taking Miami?

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:25 am

Zanchief wrote:Dallas in 5.

word

They'll have no answer for Dirk.

Shaq will do damage while he'd out there, but he'll be too winded... won't play long enough to make enough of a difference.

I'll be on the front row at the parade.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:27 am

Whats the team gonna look like next year Vonk? What's your draft/FA/Cap situation?

Post by **Lyion** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:56 am

I predict Avery will ressurect the Hack a Shaq strategy.