Airstrike takes out Al-Zarqawi

[Harrison]

Drem is right, you are wrong.

[Martrae]

Only problem is you can never make an exact translation. Every language has words that mean different things at the same time and many words have changed meanings over the years.

[Drem]

Not to mention whatever Muhammed wrote thousands of years ago probably had some historical backing. The one or two passages in reference to killing is probably in reference to some altercation. I seriously seriously seriously doubt that because of a recent surge in extremist activity over the last few decades that it reflects the entire history of a religion. It's like if something was written in the bible about the crusades, when the christians just went around slaughtering everything that walked... some group of extremist lowlifes would eventually try to make a resurgence of that line of thinking and start killing everyone and say it's okay in the name of God.

Do you see what I mean? Just do some actual research on Islam and you'll understand...

[DESX]

Not to mention whatever Muhammed wrote thousands of years ago probably had some historical backing. The one or two passages in reference to killing is probably in reference to some altercation. I seriously seriously seriously doubt that because of a recent surge in extremist activity over the last few decades that it reflects the entire history of a religion. It's like if something was written in the bible about the crusades, when the christians just went around slaughtering everything that walked... some group of extremist lowlifes would eventually try to make a resurgence of that line of thinking and start killing everyone and say it's okay in the name of God.

Do you see what I mean? Just do some actual research on Islam and you'll understand...

Yes I know their probably is some backing to it and I know the meaning can change but there is not nearly the amount of refrence's in the bible about retribution as in the koran. The Koran if you see IS clearly stating that you should use more forceful methods in quelling the unbelivers of their religion. Plus you do not see anyone mis-interpreting the bible and causing another "holy war".

[KaiineTN]

"We are at war with Islam. It may not serve our immediate foreign policy objectives for our political leaders to openly acknowledge this fact, but it is unambiguously so. It is not merely that we are at war with an otherwise peaceful religion that has been 'hijacked' by extremists. We are at war with precisely the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran, and further elaborated in the literature of the hadith, which recounts the sayings and actions of the Prophet. A future in which Islam and the West do not stand on the brink of mutual annihilation is a future in which most Muslims have learned to ignore most of their canon, just as most Christians have learned to do. Such a transformation is by no means guaranteed to occur, however, given the tenets of Islam."

[Drem]

Sorry but I don't see the hate in "That which you have been given is but a fleeting comfort of this life. Better and more enduring is that which Allah has for those who believe and put their trust in Him; who avoid gross sins and indecencies and, when angered, are willing to forgive; who obey their Lord, attend to their prayers, and conduct their affairs by mutual consent; who bestow in alms a part of that which We have given them and, when oppressed, seek to redress their wrongs. [Al-Qur'an, Sura: 42 (Ash-Shura), Ayat: 36-39]"

[DESX]

Sorry but I don't see the hate in "That which you have been given is but a fleeting comfort of this life. Better and more enduring is that which Allah has for those who believe and put their trust in Him; who avoid gross sins and indecencies and, when angered, are willing to forgive; who obey their Lord, attend to their prayers, and conduct their affairs by mutual consent; who bestow in alms a part of that which We have given them and, when oppressed, seek to redress their wrongs. [Al-Qur'an, Sura: 42 (Ash-Shura), Ayat: 36-39]"

Lol yes I know it might not seem like there is hate in it but obviously more so then in the bible else things like a cartoon would not lead the islamic people on a bitching frenzy and killing innocent people.

On January 29 six churches in the Iraqi cities of Baghdad and Kirkuk were targeted by car bombs, killing 13-year-old worshipper Fadi Raad Elias. No militants claimed to be retaliating for the pictures, nor is this the first time Iraqi churches have been bombed;[69] but the bishop of the church stated "The church blasts were a reaction to the cartoons published in European papers. But Christians are not responsible for what is published in Europe." [70] Many Assyrians in Iraq now feel like "Westerners should not give wild statements [as] everyone can attack us [in response]" and "Today I'm afraid to walk the streets, because I'm Christian." [71] On February 5, thousands of Muslims in Lebanon surrounded the Maronite Catholic Church and threw stones at it.[72]

On February 6, an Italian Catholic priest named Andrea Santoro was reported to have been shot dead at the door-step of his church in the Black Sea port city Trabzon. The convict, arrested on February 7 who is a Turkish Muslim youth aged 16, told the public attorney that his action was motivated by cartoons protests. [11]

Also on February 6, leaflets were distributed in Ramadi, Iraq by the militant group "The Military Wing for the Army of Justice" demanding Christians to "halt their religious rituals in churches and other worship places because they insulted Islam and Muslims." [12] and [13]

On February 18, 2006, eleven churches, as well as several Christian-owned businesses, in northern Nigeria were burned by protesters. [73]

They seek to "redress" our wrongs with killing people... this does not seem so tolerant to me.

[DESX]

Just an FYI I do not think the koran is a book that is meant to tell followers of it's pages, to be violent. I just think it is much more likely that they be more violent.

[Narrock]

The Koran says:

4:74 - "Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of Allah; whoever fights for the cause of Allah, whether he dies or triumphs, on him We shall bestow a rich recompense." I know that evangelists do die in the field but I have not seen too many who go into the field expecting to die. But we will continue.


Verse 9:111 - "Allah has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for the cause of Allah, they will slay, and be slain."


Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."


Verse 47:3 - "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."


Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."


Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."


Verse 5:17 - "Unbelievers are those who declare: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"


Verse 5:51 - "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."


Verse 5:59 - "Say: 'People of the Book, is it not that you hate us only because we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was formerly revealed, and because most of you are evil-doers?' Say: 'Shall I tell you who will receive a worse reward from Allah? Those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He has been angry, transforming them into apes and swine, and those who serve the devil."


Verse 5:73 - "Unbelievers are those that say: 'God is one of three.'"


Verse 109:1-6 - "Say: 'Unbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what I worship. You have your own religion and I have mine.'"


Verse 4:101 - "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe."


Verse 3:117 - "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people."


Verse 5:51 - "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."


Verse 60:13 - "Believers, do not make friends with those who have incurred the wrath of Allah."


Verse 47:5 - "As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them."


Verse 48:16 - "Say to the desert Arabs who stayed behind: 'You shall be called upon to fight a mighty nation, unless they embrace Islam. If you prove obedient, Allah will reward you well. But if you run away, as you have done before this, He will inflict on you a stern chastisement.' It shall be no offense for the blind, the lame, and the sick to stay behind. He that obeys Allah and His apostle shall be admitted to gardens watered by running streams; but he that turns and flees shall be sternly punished by Him."

Yup, that's a religion of peace alright.

Now don't start flaming me for using the rolleyes emoticon. It was obviously justified.

[Thon]

out of curiosity, how many acts of genocide does Allah commit in the Koran?

cause your god killed off everyone and everything except Noah and what he loaded onto the Ark. he annihilated sodom and gomorrah, and let's not forget murdering the firstborn sons of all Egypt.

i'm probably forgetting a few gems too, but christianity is the religion of peace

[DESX]

out of curiosity, how many acts of genocide does Allah commit in the Koran?

cause your god killed off everyone and everything except Noah and what he loaded onto the Ark. he annihilated sodom and gomorrah, and let's not forget murdering the firstborn sons of all Egypt.

i'm probably forgetting a few gems too, but christianity is the religion of peace

Out of curiosity, how many radical christians or catholics have a holy war with 1,000's of radical extremist supporters that kill innocent people with suicide bombs every day? .......none that I know of in present day.

Plus not to mention that those where supposed to be because of the sin's of man. So far I don't know how many sins that the people in 9/11 or the u.s. soldiers in the war, or all the innocent people in the suicide bombing, had to deserve death.

[Thon]

that's not what i asked at all. if your going to dodge the question, i'll assume Allah commits 0 acts of genocide in the Koran.

[DESX]

that's not what i asked at all. if your going to dodge the question, i'll assume Allah commits 0 acts of genocide in the Koran.

If I was islamic I would be able to tell you.

[brinstar]

that's not what i asked at all. if your going to dodge the question, i'll assume Allah commits 0 acts of genocide in the Koran.

no abc la~

[KaiineTN]

I have a Koran that some dude gave me at college a few months back. I'll probably read through it just for the hell of it to better understand their perspective one of these days. Someone give me a free Torah.

[DESX]

that's not what i asked at all. if your going to dodge the question, i'll assume Allah commits 0 acts of genocide in the Koran.

no abc la~

[Lyion]

out of curiosity, how many acts of genocide does Allah commit in the Koran?

cause your god killed off everyone and everything except Noah and what he loaded onto the Ark. he annihilated sodom and gomorrah, and let's not forget murdering the firstborn sons of all Egypt.

i'm probably forgetting a few gems too, but christianity is the religion of peace

But... Muslims believe the Old Testament is part of their religion, too..So, really when you talk Old Testament, it applies equally to Islam and Christianity, which is to say it's superseded and invalidated by the Koran and New Testament, but historically part of the same religion. So, it somewhat equalizes, I'd think.

[Yamori]

Islam was basically used as an excuse for a worthless meglomaniac named Mohammed to make war, raid, loot, and justify whatever he wanted to. Read up on his history and you'll see that he was a truly disgusting human being (he was a pedophile, a warmonger, a thief, a hypocrite, a murderer, and died rather unceremoniously - poisoned by the wife of a man he murdered: some prophet).

As far as contemporary standards go, Islam is the most twisted, anti-life mainstream religion on the planet. In the worse countries, there is a level of backwardness almost (or equally) on par with the dark ages of Europe.

Even in the peaceful manifestations of it, it breeds abhorrent and shameful mental submissiveness, the abandonment of reason, and the degradation of women.

As far as ideological terms go... read the Koran. It is not a religion of peace - it's a religion of barbarity at its core. It's even worse than Christianity. At least most the bible is in parable form, so it's arguable that the bulk of morally questionable material is simply symbolic and part of Jewish lore. The Koran is literally just a list of poetic commands. You can list a couple of passages here and there that support peaceful action - but these are negated by those that incite violence: which are considerably numerous.

Fuck Islam. Right in the ass.

[Thon]

But... Muslims believe the Old Testament is part of their religion, too..So, really when you talk Old Testament, it applies equally to Islam and Christianity, which is to say it's superseded and invalidated by the Koran and New Testament, but historically part of the same religion. So, it somewhat equalizes, I'd think.

for the second time, that's not my question. where in the Koran does Allah commit genocide?

[Lyion]

Where in the New Testament does God commit genocide? Since you aren't discussing this with anyone Jewish, there is the same amount of relevance as to Islam

Anyways, onwards to refutation

In Sura:

51. See then what was the outcome of their scheming: We destroyed them together with all their people. 52. Their houses are in ruin, on account of their wrongdoing. There is a sign for a people who know. 53. And we delivered those who believed and were God-fearing.

I'm sure in your mind Pharoahs prides punishment is unjust, but not quite as good as this lil gem

Koran 21:11
How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their inequities, setting up in their place other peoples.

Even more <3 from the Koran

The punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land.

Even more Koran goodness

Allah revealed His will to the angels, saying: 'I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!' That was because they defied Allah and His apostle.

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously.

"Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Now, obviously you equate that to the underlying theme of God that Christians follow, wrongly. I suggest you actually read the New Testament and the Koran to get a better feel for the content, since I doubt you've read either.

Here's directly from Luke 6:28-31

"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,"

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."

[Narrock]

Where in the New Testament does God commit genocide? Since you aren't discussing this with anyone Jewish, there is the same amount of relevance as to Islam

Anyways, onwards to refutation

In Sura:

51. See then what was the outcome of their scheming: We destroyed them together with all their people. 52. Their houses are in ruin, on account of their wrongdoing. There is a sign for a people who know. 53. And we delivered those who believed and were God-fearing.

I'm sure in your mind Pharoahs prides punishment is unjust, but not quite as good as this lil gem

Koran 21:11
How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their inequities, setting up in their place other peoples.

Even more <3 from the Koran

The punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land.

Even more Koran goodness

Allah revealed His will to the angels, saying: 'I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!' That was because they defied Allah and His apostle.

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously.

"Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Now, obviously you equate that to the underlying theme of God that Christians follow, wrongly. I suggest you actually read the New Testament and the Koran to get a better feel for the content, since I doubt you've read either.

Here's directly from Luke 6:28-31

"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,"

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."

Yeah but... but... but... what about the Christian God and all the atrocities HE committed? HMM? How about that? Answer me! ANSWER ME!!!

[brinstar]

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."

so... you WANT muslims to wish for the annihilation of all christians? you WANT their extremists to advocate the extermination of our leaders and the conversion of all our countrymen to Islam? weird.

i love it when bloodthirsty warmongers parade around shouting passages like these, it's so fucking ironic

[Thon]

i still don't see one single murder commited by Allah. perhaps by his followers, but not once Allah doing the actual killing through his "miracles". where does Allah actually open up a can of whoop ass?

Where in the New Testament does God commit genocide?

Revelation, wasn't there a little something called the Apocalypse? the end of all things which will occur thanks to the loving christian god? so 7+ billion people, minus those that get taken away in the rapture. it would make your loving god the biggest mass murderer of eternity. even hitler, stalin, mao, ghengis khan, atilla the hun, son of sam, and rambo combined don't come close to that body count.

also i don't think the old testament is equally as important to islam as it is to christianity. when you open up a koran, it doesn't start with genesis. when you open up a bible, it does. at least the king james version

Now, obviously you equate that to the underlying theme of God that Christians follow, wrongly. I suggest you actually read the New Testament and the Koran to get a better feel for the content, since I doubt you've read either.

you've read them both? it's just a stab in the dark, but i'm guessing you didn't draw upon your vast memory for those passages.

[Captain Insano]

Islam was basically used as an excuse for a worthless meglomaniac named Mohammed to make war, raid, loot, and justify whatever he wanted to. Read up on his history and you'll see that he was a truly disgusting human being (he was a pedophile, a warmonger, a thief, a hypocrite, a murderer, and died rather unceremoniously - poisoned by the wife of a man he murdered: some prophet).

As far as contemporary standards go, Islam is the most twisted, anti-life mainstream religion on the planet. In the worse countries, there is a level of backwardness almost (or equally) on par with the dark ages of Europe.

Even in the peaceful manifestations of it, it breeds abhorrent and shameful mental submissiveness, the abandonment of reason, and the degradation of women.

As far as ideological terms go... read the Koran. It is not a religion of peace - it's a religion of barbarity at its core. It's even worse than Christianity. At least most the bible is in parable form, so it's arguable that the bulk of morally questionable material is simply symbolic and part of Jewish lore. The Koran is literally just a list of poetic commands. You can list a couple of passages here and there that support peaceful action - but these are negated by those that incite violence: which are considerably numerous.

Fuck Islam. Right in the ass.

I'm surprised to here yamori go all MC Hammer on islam. Usually he is just full of cupcakes and panda bears, but it appears the cupcakes were replaced with ninja stars of rage.

[Markarado]

Drem you're ignorance of the Islamic religion astounds me.