Teachers' Union

[Diekan]

Good or bad?

Given the current state of our public education system, I have to wonder.

I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was quite high, of teachers that can't pass proficiency tests in the very subjects they teach. Teachers who think the classroom is a place to indocturnate students with either their conservative or liberal political ideologies (bad idea) and it seems that because of the union, not much can be done about it.

Yet, without the union, I wonder if they would have the pay (which isn't enough) and the benefits would be there for them.

[Ginzburgh]

Yet, without the union, I wonder if they would have the pay (which isn't enough) and the benefits would be there for them.

I guess it depends where you are because my GF makes mid 60s for teaching in middle school and she's not even teneir(sp) yet. Thats not counting the $700 a week cash she makes tutoring.

When it's all said and done she makes literally twice as much as I do and I am in a pretty good position for my age.

[Gidan]

In general teachers are underpaid for what they do, this usually is reflected in the end result because many just dont care anymore.

[Lyion]

Industries without competition that are completely socialistic and protected usually result in inferior results.

Competition drives innovation and lowers cost. Teachers Unions keep costs high, allow for tenure and bad teachers to be irremovable, and prevent choices that would allow parents to remove their kids from mediocre or bad schools.

The government can't do anything effectively, and this includes controlling schools. They should allow it to be completely privatized and free market.

[Tikker]

Industries without competition that are completely socialistic and protected usually result in inferior results.

Competition drives innovation and lowers cost. Teachers Unions keep costs high, allow for tenure and bad teachers to be irremovable, and prevent choices that would allow parents to remove their kids from mediocre or bad schools.

The government can't do anything effectively, and this includes controlling schools. They should allow it to be completely privatized and free market.

that leads to the question then:

does everyone have the right to obtain high quality education for their children? or only the people who can afford it?

[Spazz]

Only people who can afford it same way as everything else in this country. If you were born to a have not family fuck you. Your mammy and pappy shoulda worked harder and you should have been smarter.

[Lyion]

Everyone not only has the right to have good, quality education, but should be allowed to choose where and what curriculum they want their child to attend.

Unfortunately, our current closed system of schools with locked in jobs, piss poor curricula, and no choice dooms millions of kids to mediocre to downright bad educations.

Get rid of Teachers Unions. Have private facilities compete for vouchers for kids that recompense them per student.

Better educations for more kids. Competition so the schools will strive to get better, and not just be socialistic and sucktastic. Cheaper, since private is always much, much less expensive.

Currently, the rich kids are getting the better educations in the U.S. I'd love to see us move away from that paradigm, and allow for real change that will help our kids.

[Trielelvan]

Only people who can afford it same way as everything else in this country. If you were born to a have not family fuck you. Your mammy and pappy shoulda worked harder and you should have been smarter.

While we're at it, let's sterilize all those illiterate, illegitimate fucksticks to keep them from breeding hordes upon hordes of illiterate, illegitimate fucksticks.

[Martrae]

Homeschool curriculums are superior to public school and a lot cheaper. You don't have to be rich to give your kids a quality education....only dedicated.

[Jay]

tenure*

Teachers in IL make bank. There's a website that shows all of their salaries too. http://www.thechampion.org.

[Yamori]

Get rid of Teachers Unions. Have private facilities compete for vouchers for kids that recompense them per student.

Basically my view.

Whether all children deserve a high quality education isn't really the question - under the current system, the majority do not receive one because the vast bulk of public schools (even very well funded ones) are useless and inefficient.

As far as teacher's unions, I think they should be allowed to exist, but they should have absolutely no government-backed bargaining power. School administrations shouldn't be forced to deal with them.

[Ginzburgh]

Homeschool curriculums are superior to public school and a lot cheaper. You don't have to be rich to give your kids a quality education....only dedicated.

You're just full of the generalized statements today eh?

There are probably about 100 factors that contribute to one being better than the other.

[Martrae]

When you've researched the caliber of homeschool programs out there then you can bitch about me making generalizations.

[Lyion]

When you've researched the caliber of homeschool programs out there then you can bitch about me making generalizations.

Many private schools destroy homeschools in education and child growth.

Anyways, can we not tangent this on to yet another homeschooling thread, please? We've already done that, multiple times.

Teachers in Ohio make very high wages for having liberal arts degrees, and are guaranteed jobs with killler benefits. I'd have no problem with that if we got our moneys worth, and there weren't so many mediocre teachers out there, and so many terrible schools.

[Ginzburgh]

I'm sorry I can't be a good poster, Lyion. I realize if I keep being an asstard posting flames in a moderated section, you'll not only ban me, but also verbally torture and send naked halfing pr0n pictures to my GF who will subsequently leave me to begin her cult following of little people. So sorry!

[10sun]

I'm sorry I can't be a good poster, Lyion. I realize if I keep being an asstard posting flames in a moderated section, you'll not only ban me, but also verbally torture and send naked halfing pr0n pictures to my GF who will subsequently leave me to begin her cult following of little people. So sorry!

I can't tell if that is a mod-edit or if Ginzburgh is just being sarcastic.

[Lyion]

The original Ginz post was just an overt flame to Martrae. The last post ain't his.

[Ginzburgh]

Yeah, see EE for my original post that was just an overt flame to Martrae.

[Tikker]

When you've researched the caliber of homeschool programs out there then you can bitch about me making generalizations.

curriculum is almost never the issue with the quality of an education

you can pretend that it's the main thing all you like, but the quality of the educator + the willingness of the student is really all that matters

[Minrott]

I wish people would stop with the bs that teachers don't make enough money. It's a ridiculous sentiment only true in the poorest schools. Both of my parents were teachers in a small town public school and they did quite all right. A couple points from my view.

Tenure is not bad. Tenure is a necessary benefit to protect teachers from being fired for teaching what someone else doesn't think needs to be taught. Tenure can be abused, or can protect bad teachers, it depends on the particular school system and how tenure rights are interputed. But it is a necessary thing in that line of work.

There is no competition. Without competition, the product avaialbe becomes stagnant and of poor quality. The product in this case is your childs education, and the answer is most definately not "Pay the teachers more" or any other form of throwing money at the problem. Competition in a free society is what sets the bar.

Administrations have over run the whole public system. Public schools these days are so top heavy with Administrative do-nothing busy bodies tieing the hands of teachers and students, wrapping miles of red tape around everything from curriculum to lunch menus. Slash the cost of public schooling by slashing the unnneeded staffing. Hire more teachers, fewer bureaucrats and a lot of problems will solve themselves in smaller class sizes.

There's so much more wrong with public education, this barely scratches the surface.

[Martrae]

Anyways, can we not tangent this on to yet another homeschooling thread, please? We've already done that, multiple times.

Yes, daddy

[Harrison]

When you've researched the caliber of homeschool programs out there then you can bitch about me making generalizations.

curriculum is almost never the issue with the quality of an education

you can pretend that it's the main thing all you like, but the quality of the educator + the willingness of the student is really all that matters

Wrong, even great teachers are forced to teach complete and utter bullshit when their state is forcing their direction.

[araby]

When you've researched the caliber of homeschool programs out there then you can bitch about me making generalizations.

curriculum is almost never the issue with the quality of an education

you can pretend that it's the main thing all you like, but the quality of the educator + the willingness of the student is really all that matters

Wrong, even great teachers are forced to teach complete and utter bullshit when their state is forcing their direction.

So true. my patient was born/raised in a New Jersey and taught there as well. She was a good teacher, her own kids, who were in college, encouraged her to make a REAL difference by moving to the state with the lowest test scores. She thought about it and realized her teaching skills *just might be* put to a greater use where the dumbest people are.

The woman was an amazing woman-she had that about her and you knew it. all of you would agree that she probably was a very good teacher.

she took her kids' advice and moved to South Carolina, where she was no longer teaching in the best schools around making great money. She taught for one year and gave her resignation at the end of that year. she said because of the administration and how things are done, decision-making within the district itself-made it so that she could no longer make a difference, and that the problem here, lies with more things than she can compete with. she wrote a book about it and got published even, I'll have to see if I can remember her name tomorrow. anyway, she's a woman who is dedicated to teaching students-just like martrae said-that's what it takes. It wasn't the money, the best school, she wanted to teach unfortunate kids-where we say "the problem lies at home!!" with these children who slip through the cracks.

but she said-it's poorly run and noone notices/cares.

[Narrock]

Anyways, can we not tangent this on to yet another homeschooling thread, please? We've already done that, multiple times.

Yes, daddy

I bet Lyion just got excited when you said that

[araby]

Anyways, can we not tangent this on to yet another homeschooling thread, please? We've already done that, multiple times.

Yes, daddy

I bet Lyion just got excited when you said that

I'll admit that I thought, "naught-ay mart-rae" and almost posted it teehee