Israel humbled by arms from Iran

[Martrae]

By Adrian Blomfield in Ghandouriyeh
(Filed: 15/08/2006)

Abandoned Hizbollah positions in Lebanon yesterday revealed conclusive evidence that Syria - and almost certainly Iran - provided the anti-tank missiles that have blunted the power of Israel's once invincible armour.

After one of the fiercest confrontations of the war, Israeli forces took the small town of Ghandouriyeh, east of the southern city of Tyre, on Sunday evening, hours before a ceasefire brokered by the United Nations took effect.

At least 24 Israeli soldiers were killed in the advance on the strategic hilltop town as Hizbollah fighters were pushed back to its outskirts, abandoning many weapons.

The discovery helped to explain the slow progress made by Israeli ground forces in nearly five weeks of a war which Hizbollah last night claimed as "a historic victory." Israeli political and military leaders are facing mounting criticism over the conduct of the offensive, which was intended to smash the Iranian-backed Shia militia.

Outside one of the town's two mosques a van was found filled with green casings about 6ft long. The serial numbers identified them as AT-5 Spandrel anti-tank missiles. The wire-guided weapon was developed in Russia but Iran began making a copy in 2000.

Beyond no-man's land, in the east of the village, was evidence of Syrian-supplied hardware. In a garden next to a junction used as an outpost by Hizbollah lay eight Kornet anti-tank rockets, described by Brig Mickey Edelstein, the commander of the Nahal troops who took Ghandouriyeh, as "some of the best in the world".

Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia."

Brig Edelstein said: "If they tell you that Syria knew nothing about this, just look. This is the evidence. Proof, not just talk."

The discovery of the origin of the weapons proved to the Israelis that their enemy was not a ragged and lightly armed militia but a semi-professional army equipped by Syria and Iran to take on Israel. The weapons require serious training to operate and could be beyond the capabilities of some supposedly regular armies in the Middle East. The Kornet was unveiled by Russia in 1994. It is laser-guided, has a range of three miles and carries a double warhead capable of penetrating the reactive armour on Israeli Merkava tanks. Russia started supplying them to Syria in 1998.

Israeli forces were taken by surprise by the sophistication of the anti-tank weapons they faced. They are believed to have accounted for many of the 116 deaths the army suffered. Dozens of tanks were hit and an unknown number destroyed.

The missiles were also used against infantry, in one case bringing down a house and killing nine soldiers. They played an important part in Hizbollah's tactics of using a network of concealed positions to set up ambushes for the Israelis as they inched in. Last night, Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah leader, said his men had achieved "a strategic, historic victory" over "a confused, cowardly and defea-ted" enemy. He said the militia would not disarm, as Israel and the UN Security Council were demanding. It would be "immoral, incorrect and inappropriate," he said. "It is the wrong timing on a pyschological and moral level."

As the militia leader was claiming victory, Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, defended his handling of the crisis and said that the massive air, ground and sea attack had changed the face of the Middle East. But he admitted that the military and political leadership was guilty of "shortcomings", not least in underestimating the threat from anti-tank weapons.

Critics say that he placed too much faith in the ability of the air force to break the back of Hizbollah and delayed launching a major ground offensive until it was too late.

Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud Party leader and a rival, said: "There were many failures - failures on identifying the threat, failures in preparing to meet the threat, failures in the management of the war, failures in the management of the home front."

Last night, President George W. Bush blamed Iran and Syria for fomenting the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah. "We can only imagine how much more dangerous this conflict would be if Iran had the nuclear weapon it seeks," he said.

[Markarado]

Take out Iran and Syria ~ Part of the problem solved!

[Spazz]

Yea !!!!!! lets go get in another war im sure we can afford it and there are plenty of troops to go around!!

[Markarado]

I was actually hoping other nations would get involved.

[Narrock]

Yea !!!!!! lets go get in another war im sure we can afford it and there are plenty of troops to go around!!

Would you rather we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

[Tikker]

well, it really doesn't have fuck all to do with the USA, so yeah, singing kumbaya would be a better solution


let israel fight it's own wars

[Harrison]

well, it really doesn't have fuck all to do with the USA, so yeah, singing kumbaya would be a better solution


let israel fight it's own wars

Because isolationism worked in the past!!

No. History proves your entire statement to be ignorant at the very least.

[Arlos]

And we've only been seeing for the past 100 years that naked imperialism doesn't work either. There's a reason why all of the "old powers" lost their "colonies" to nationalistic uprisings as people strived for independance.

Funny that we're now apparently re-learning the lesson that going in and conquering a country doesn't work in this day and age. The French learned it relatively recently at Dien Bien Phu, Russia learned about it in Afghanistan, and given our current admiinstration refuses to learn from history, we're re-re-re-re-learning it ourselves now in Iraq.

-Arlos

[Ganzo]

let israel fight it's own wars

please

[Narrock]

let israel fight it's own wars

please

LOL. Tikker's mind is so warped I don't know whether to get pissed off or just laugh at him anymore.

[Tikker]

let israel fight it's own wars

please

LOL. Tikker's mind is so warped I don't know whether to get pissed off or just laugh at him anymore.

what are you talking about crackpot

do you honestly think the US should just jump into every skirmish out there?

israel vs iran/syria/hezbollah/whoever has nothing to do with the US, so let the parties involved settle the dispute

[Narrock]

let israel fight it's own wars

please

LOL. Tikker's mind is so warped I don't know whether to get pissed off or just laugh at him anymore.

what are you talking about crackpot

do you honestly think the US should just jump into every skirmish out there?

israel vs iran/syria/hezbollah/whoever has nothing to do with the US, so let the parties involved settle the dispute

We have strong tries to Judaism and Isarael. Israel is a strong ally of the U.S. Not doing anything would be tantamount to watching one of your best friends getting beat up by a gang of bullies. Of course we should step in and help. You just don't get it.

[Martrae]

Israel doesn't need our help. Real friends let their friends fight their own battles.

[Narrock]

Israel doesn't need our help. Real friends let their friends fight their own battles.

Not if they are getting ganged-up on by several at once. Hmm let's see, Hizbollah has Chinese and Russian weapons, and is getting financed by Iran and Syria. We shouldn't get involved? LOLZ

[Ganzo]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

[Harrison]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

I'm with this guy.

[Narrock]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

[Gidan]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

At what cost to ourselves?

[Trielelvan]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

Except we are one of the ones that keeps calling for a ceasefire.
The US, the UN, and all the other jackalope countries out there who think they know better need to STFU and let Isreal open up some serious whoopass without saying another damned word.
Like Ganzo said, they are capable of blowing the shit out of their neighbors just fine.

If the US wants to help, we need to shut up, pop some popcorn, and watch the fireworks as the Israelis teach those fucking sand monkeys just how NOT badass they are afterall.

[Phlegm]

Israel doesn't need our help. Real friends let their friends fight their own battles.

This is not entirely true since Israel gets alot of money and weapons from the US.

[Narrock]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

Except we are one of the ones that keeps calling for a ceasefire.
The US, the UN, and all the other jackalope countries out there who think they know better need to STFU and let Isreal open up some serious whoopass without saying another damned word.
Like Ganzo said, they are capable of blowing the shit out of their neighbors just fine.

If the US wants to help, we need to shut up, pop some popcorn, and watch the fireworks as the Israelis teach those fucking sand monkeys just how NOT badass they are afterall.

I'm with you there.

[Tikker]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

you're missing the point

at this point, i think israel wants the US to back the fuck out so that they can jabown that area of the world

it's one thing to help when asked, and another to completely dictate how another should do things

[Harrison]

Israel can handle it, if rest of the world would just stop crying for ceasefire

Well, I am happy that the U.S. helps Israel whenever we can.

Except we are one of the ones that keeps calling for a ceasefire.
The US, the UN, and all the other jackalope countries out there who think they know better need to STFU and let Isreal open up some serious whoopass without saying another damned word.
Like Ganzo said, they are capable of blowing the shit out of their neighbors just fine.

If the US wants to help, we need to shut up, pop some popcorn, and watch the fireworks as the Israelis teach those fucking sand monkeys just how NOT badass they are afterall.

[Arlos]

I repeat: This recent offensive has gained Israel NOTHING, and cost them quite a bit.

Did they get the soldier back in Gaza? No.

Did they stop rockets from being launched from Gaza? No again.

Did they even come close to wiping out Hamas? Definitely not.

Did they completely kill the drive to force Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist? Oh yes.


Did they get the 2 soldiers back from Hezbollah? Nope.

Did they come close to breaking Hezbollah as a military force? Not even.

Did they stop Hezbollah from firing rockets into Israel? Hardly.

Did they increase support for Hezbollah among the average Lebonese? Absolutely. Before the war, Hezbollah was supported by maybe 30% of the populace. Now? it's running 80-90%, INCLUDING among Lebanese christians.

Did they hurt themselves diplomatically around the world for the mass deaths of innocent civilians, like at Qana or the CLEARLY marked Red Cross ambulances that were taken out with precision guided munitions? Most definitely.

Did they prove to the arab world that Israel can be resisted militarily far better than they could be in the 60s? Yep.


So lets review, shall we? These offensives accomplished NONE of their stated gains, nor would they have even if they'd kept going for months in the future. They worsened their situation both militarily and politically. THey have INCREASED support for both Hamas and Hezbollah, and decreased support for ther own position among the moderate arab community (which does exist). Hamas is not disarmed, Hezbollah is not disarmed, and the ruined economic conditions in both Gaza and Lebanon is going to drive tons of new recruits into both organizations.

Understand, I am in no way condoning the right of Hamas or Hezbollah to kidnap people, fire their OWN munitions at civilians, use suicide bombers, etc. Those are definitely also bad. However, simply because in the case of Israel's actions it's a national state slaughtering civilians instead of a militia group doesn't make it one iota more right. Also, war should be conducted for the purpose of attaining certain goals. Since they attained NONE of their stated goals, how can the war be viewed as anything BUT a failure?

-Arlos

[Narrock]

I repeat: This recent offensive has gained Israel NOTHING, and cost them quite a bit.

Did they get the soldier back in Gaza? No.

Did they stop rockets from being launched from Gaza? No again.

Did they even come close to wiping out Hamas? Definitely not.

Did they completely kill the drive to force Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist? Oh yes.


Did they get the 2 soldiers back from Hezbollah? Nope.

Did they come close to breaking Hezbollah as a military force? Not even.

Did they stop Hezbollah from firing rockets into Israel? Hardly.

Did they increase support for Hezbollah among the average Lebonese? Absolutely. Before the war, Hezbollah was supported by maybe 30% of the populace. Now? it's running 80-90%, INCLUDING among Lebanese christians.

Did they hurt themselves diplomatically around the world for the mass deaths of innocent civilians, like at Qana or the CLEARLY marked Red Cross ambulances that were taken out with precision guided munitions? Most definitely.

Did they prove to the arab world that Israel can be resisted militarily far better than they could be in the 60s? Yep.


So lets review, shall we? These offensives accomplished NONE of their stated gains, nor would they have even if they'd kept going for months in the future. They worsened their situation both militarily and politically. THey have INCREASED support for both Hamas and Hezbollah, and decreased support for ther own position among the moderate arab community (which does exist). Hamas is not disarmed, Hezbollah is not disarmed, and the ruined economic conditions in both Gaza and Lebanon is going to drive tons of new recruits into both organizations.

Understand, I am in no way condoning the right of Hamas or Hezbollah to kidnap people, fire their OWN munitions at civilians, use suicide bombers, etc. Those are definitely also bad. However, simply because in the case of Israel's actions it's a national state slaughtering civilians instead of a militia group doesn't make it one iota more right. Also, war should be conducted for the purpose of attaining certain goals. Since they attained NONE of their stated goals, how can the war be viewed as anything BUT a failure?

-Arlos

If Israel ever gets those 2 soldiers back they will be in bodybags.