Euphoria vs Vonkaar (split from old topic)

[Scoota McGee]

When a video game makes stealing someone else’s work seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do... you've got fucking problems.

[Kharani]

Hi kyo.

for those that are curious.. the euphoria drama is about to go into high-gear.
Old website: http://www.euphoriaguild.com
New website: http://www.eqeuphoria.com

Can someone tell me what is wrong with their new website?

Absolutely nothing is different and why should it be? Tis the guild website and it would appear your timely updates where not timely enough and you where the only one that could update alot of the stuff and we wished to have a little faster movement on them. Sorry Vonk but at least you have NT.

Wrong I have done my share of html before and honestly yes I know how much work can and does go into a site but I could care less if the people the site was for went elsewhere cause most of my html was for free anyway and I was glad to be done with the extra work so I had more free time to myself.

Spoken by someone who never did any web work and doesn't understand the work that goes into developing one. Vonk is justified in feeling robbed.

[Zanathar]

Well,

The whole issue is what was Vonk's...

The webpage layout? He stole that idea from countless others.

The art? That was given to him to use for the Euphorian website (IE, it wasnt his).

The Pictures? Those were contributed by Euphorian Members. (So, not his)

The skinny on Who got what? (Again, not his that was info submitted by others)

The facts of what happened? Nope. Thats all Euphoria too.

So, what is Vonkaar's? Well, his "artistic expression" is his. His: Vonkaar's Updates in a Timely manner! (That is his)

But what else?

You can not copyright a color.
You can not copyright a layout that has been used thousands of times before by others.
You can not copyright information (This is the very essence of Copyright Law by the way, you see Copyright is about protecting the intellectual works of others, not information).

Vonkaar was a webpage administrator. Nothing more. The rights on the Euphorian website were Morally the property of the organization known as Euphoria. The copyright of the information that was on the website was almost wholly owned by individual members of Euphoria who had surrendered that information for the use by the organization known as Euphoria.

Something else: To sue for intellectual copyright infringement you have to prove that you are suffering a financial loss due to the fact that someone is "stealing" your intellectual work. If there is no monetary loss, then there is no lawsuit possible.

If Vonkaar said to me: I will sue you.
My Response would have been: Please Do.

[labbats]

Hey Morgreth,

You justify every action you do, because it's you doing it, not because it's right, right?

[vonkaar]

Holy shit, this post might be longer than my Bible thread...

anyway...

Vonk care to display the whole fucking message? Nice edit there. However I can't go and pull out that message because the pw doesnt work now? Gratz you.

That reply was in response to your email that said ....

Blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah

I told you that YOUR work....in other words the main page, roster, archive page, and link page would be taken down. It was. Did that stop you from being an absolute top notch dick? No. You came here spouting off about some conspiracy to do this over several months because you can't read dates.

Actually... I recanted the whole 'December 5th' things a while back. Don't blame me for your poor education. As far as the edit... I didn't edit shit... I just didn't want a 1024/768 picture taking up the whole page... I dragged the little 'crop' box (something that you'll become quite familiar with if you are going to start updating the site) across your message... and pasted. Big fucking deal.

I said if you want to sue me for the forums and dkp...have a nice time trying over freeware that anyone can get. You told me if I wanted to talk I needed to come to your beloved NT because you wouldnt handle this like a fucking adult. You need support from your kingdom. The content in those forums and the dkp belongs to Euphoria. The pictures that were posted...taken by ACTUAL PLAYING MEMBERS? Belong to Euphoria. Lmao dont get me started on pics stolen...content stolen you are the KING of betrayal and stolen thoughts and intellectual property.

Actually... I initially sent EVERYTHING via email. I never got a single email response, but you *sure* enjoyed sending me PMs on my now 'empty' board... "Have fun talking to yourself." That's a gem.

You have told so many fucking half truths in all of these threads. Its unreal. I never thought Vonkaar, mr cool guy, would be that fucking low. The day I saw what was in that forum on this website was an eye opener.

Maybe its time for a some actual truths.... Mr TRUSTED SITE ADMINISTRATOR decided he didnt like an officer decision....Gets pissed off about a supposed grammar correction so he runs to NT...........

blahblah

I guess I said the word?=p

God then decides to also talk more shit....and copies direct posts from our officer forum:

One from me .....

blahblah

Pics are then linked from a site that was linked in our forums from a recent trip.

Pictures that are hardly public... can even be found via google... that at least 50 people that are no longer members of Euphoria have... blahblah... Although, I *can* understand why you wouldn't want them made public.

It didn't take long for rumors to hit me that this happened. Go go trash discussed in the forum that people can't keep quiet about ...I was able to get a glimpse of this to see for myself. Low and behold....Vonk.

Alright... so... let's say that I had a problem in my Cub Scout troop. I then go onto offtopic.com and talk about it to a bunch of strangers and a few online friends. Did I violate the 'privacy' of my cub scout troop? If I wrote VERBATIM what the scoutmaster said, would I be wrong? If I sent you a nasty email condemning you for your slothful whoring existence (just an example, I don't necessarily feel that way), would *my* privacy be violated if you showed that to a friend? Shrug... the group of people on NT that I brought this to was a private group. I didn't copy and paste whole threads from euphoriaguild.com and post them in a public place on NT. I *promise* that I would have NO problem moving that whole thread into R&F, if you don't. Your one reply was the only thing that I copied, and... it *was* a reply TO ME. Much like an email. I was discussing some drama in my life... you were involved. I posted your reply. Big fucking deal. Ya'll act like I fucking unprotected the entire forum for public viewing.

The thread is now 9 pages long. Much of it is commentary on your obesity and propensity to sloppily schlob on man knob. However, MOST of the thread is filled with my commentary about feeling shafted by my old guild. They convinced me to offer to transfer CONTROL of EUPHORIAGUILD.COM over to you.

After showing officers and some of the oldest people in the guild what was in this thread (thanks those(plural ya) that helped),

It's okay to violate the privacy of NT's private section - when it 'benefits' you... but it is a sin when I do it... funny double-standard there.

I was told it was time to move the site. I was kind of shocked because this decision was unamimously decided and relayed to me. I didn't edict jack. So it was done. And I was relieved.

Date registered May 12th, almost two weeks after this fight broke out. So much for your conspiracy.

holy shit, get off the date thing already.

The truth is Vonkaar, you seemed to get bored or busy with our updates. NT seemed to be taking your attention. We tried giving you updates. You didn't respond.

Okay... wait a second... "We Tried?" I got TWO pictures since the last update... and they were both from a recruit. Tried, my ass.

Ask Bloxr. That alone was enough to possibly get another admin. But no, you had done so much for us. I couldn't even think about offending you. Then you go and do that? Fuck that. Fuck you. And Fuck anyone that thinks we should have stuck by that. Those forums aren't for one person's pleasure. That site and those forums and DKP belong to a guild.

Actually... they all belonged to me. I built the DKP system when it(EQDKP) was in its ALPHA stage. My site was the FOURTH EQDKP site around. I was one of the earliest testers they had... I helped make a lot of changes... found a lot of bugs. You all had a very archaic DKP system that took forever to update and track. I found a solution. I found this when there was virtually NO talk about EQDKP. It took me a while to get it up and running... but... eventually... yeah.

The *site* however... *is* mine. As Mahue posted above, the code, layout, design, images and commentary are all property of ME. Ya'll stole that. You did so under shady dealings. After everything went down... I *did* decide to allow Loomis to update euphoriaguild.com. I gave him root access to the site. The only thing he did with that access was download the entire contents of the site... even my 'personal' belongings. When I saw this, I *still* didn't know your intentions. I just figured he was backing everything up... like I did... in case he screwed something up in an update. Smart thinking. But then... one day... boom... euphoriaguild forums stripped... a goodbye post... a finger in my anus.

So we started doing the backups that we had the authority to do to move it off site. Vonk figured it out. He through up the finger and locked us out.

Actually... I 'figured' out the whole 'new site' thing because SOMEONE WHO KNEW fucking flat out TOLD me. Cong you on that trust. Watching my traffic ping to hell because you dumbfucks were making 200 backups all over the place didn't clue me in... that happened all the time.

We talked in the officer forum....and I quote me:

I think its time you let someone else manage the site. I appreciate you offering to let someone have the access. We will probably move the stuff off the site. The DKP and the forums. If you could PM me or email the access stuff...for mysequal and the database. We will get the guild stuff off of the site.

It would be nice to keep the old url. Let me know if thats possible.

So we ASK FOR PERMISSION. OMG HE KNOWS what we are doing.

How the fuck does, "We will 'probably' move the stuff off the site" equate to 'ask(ing) for permission???' I hate to argue symantecs, but... I was under the impression that this simply meant the DKP / Forums that ya'll were copying ANYWAY. I had no idea that you'd make a fucking CLONE of my work... and EDIT OUT my name??? (please explain that bit, that's slightly funny).

You then say you will get with who I suggested and give him the information to access the site...(either to do updates..or to pull it off the site). You give him access. But you give him READ ONLY access. He couldnt update jack shit. However he can copy. We took this as a sign you were letting us copy and didn't want us there as a result of all this.

Here is my email to Loomis...

You can FTP by connecting to
euphoriaguild.com
username: *******************
password: *****************

the root directory is /var/www/html
you *should* have full author permissions... let me know if I fucked up somehow =p.

And... just like this CURRENT dispute... ya'll are incapable of communicating through email. I honestly thought that he had the exact same permissions as me. If he had read the fucking memo, he would know how to get in touch with me to report errors. Shrug...

When you went off about stealing your shit, we were a little shocked. Considering YOU brought this on sir...YOU set it up to be this way..YOU gave us the permission to copy but not update jack.

When you sent that email this morning? We took the page down. The gift you had given us.

That's the fucking truth.

Now that's all im gonna say on this incident.
[/b]

tee hee

1 year ago, I was God to you fucking ingrates. Oh, great update Vonk! Thanks for the hard work Vonk! Now... I read, "heh... the site sucked and it's not like it is hard to crop pictures and install freeware." Before... it was, "Come back and play with us Vonk!" Now... it is, "WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE UPDATES!!!" This coming from the people that haven't sent a single picture in almost 2 years. All the while, 50% of the posts on the forum were completely centered around lewt. I almost lost my patience with you greedy mother fuckers 6 months ago. I couldn't believe it when I read someone whining about a paladin sword being priced 2 points (48 vs 50) lower than the SK weapon... all because it had like... 25 less hp or some bullshit. This spawned a multi-page discussion on lewt pricing and the errors within.

That wasn't the Euphoria that I played in. That's not the Euphoria that people want to join.

And... then... I get an email from one of your 'trusted' friends that basically said, "we are looking to move onto a new website... just fyi." That sucked... so... I already have a bitter taste in my mouth towards most of Euphoria, and then I see ANOTHER whine about lewt. So, finger... forums/dkp down for a temporary fix. Then I went to sleep. Oh well.

The best thing about this is that I have backups of the entire forums, dating as recent as Sunday. So... nothing lost... I'm just not sure if I can repair the security of the forums or not... with all the clumsy damage you dumbfuck phpBB admins caused.

The best thing about this whole rant is, I have a good body. When you strip away all the lies... all the drama... all the NT/Euphoria history... the friends... the enemies... rival guilds... you are left with two people, angrily typing away at their computers... there it is. Young, attractive me... and 'meets people through everquest', old, large Tiriella -- with an unfortunate RL name =/. So... I lost Euphoriaguild, you gained some weight. I'll keep administrating the Nameless Tavern, you'll keep administrating Whataburger. And, yes... I accept that this final paragraph puts me in your horrid 'Taxx' category... but... you deleted my forums and that pisses me off.

[Zanathar]

No.

You have a moral responsibility to do what is correct and right.

If you screw up, you own up to it and take responsibility for your actions.

Justifing something simply because you are doing something shows a lack of moral fiber as well as a lack of personal responsibility.

[Scoota McGee]

...keep administering Whataburger... I am so stealing that line IRL.

[Harrison]

The best thing about this whole rant is, I have a good body.

That made me raff, I rike it.

But either way this whole BS is just ridiculous...you all need a mushroom stamp.

[Aatrex]

...keep administering Whataburger... I am so stealing that line IRL.

Yeah that's intellectual property there :?

[Treehorn]

Worst guild drama thread ever?

[Captain Insano]

oh no not even close... Trak to juggs room I think was the best...

i think that was the title... it was when LoS was set up to pull trak, and sanctuary trained them instead.

it was mucho el oh el.

[Goose_Man]

Didnt the like block the exit with ogres or something....... or was that a separate trak issue?

[Aavar]

Eye of the Ages
Sanctuary
Legacy of Steel

Reet Room

Trakanon (Glubgawd)
enough said

[Treehorn]

That's what I meant, ralf. You can't have a good guild drama rant about intellectual property. It's a total yawnfest.

Good guild drama is about leapfrogging, KS'ing, steamrolling, training, scamming, cheating, and lying. Managing to wipe out two whole guilds in one train, fijian roommates, and ninja looting account jumpers is the stuff of legends, not 'OmGz!1 tehy h@xXor3d my m3g@by7ez!1'.

Vonk seems to have a legitimate beef with his old guild, but is it interesting to anyone outside of his guild? Not especally. Good guild drama, like the choicest, juiciest gossip, is interesting even to uneffected, outside parties.

They need to get back to bashing Tiriella, and how she is a whore. It probably won't be enough to salvage the thread, but it would be a step in the right direction.

There hasn't been a good guild drama rant since, what, Velious?

[Treehorn]

3 guilds, my bad~

[Goose_Man]

shut the fuck up Treehorn... you're gay

[Mahue]

The best thing about this is that I have backups of the entire forums, dating as recent as Sunday. So... nothing lost... I'm just not sure if I can repair the security of the forums or not... with all the clumsy damage you dumbfuck phpBB admins caused.

how much for unlmtd read access of private forums? paypal?

[Treehorn]

shut the fuck up Treehorn... you're gay

After you, love.

[Goose_Man]

I told you to first

[Spacewoman Spiff]

Wow guys, CTFO

[Treehorn]

Age before beauty~

[Martrae]

Don't make me stop this car and reach back there!

[Scoota McGee]

The best thing about this is that I have backups of the entire forums, dating as recent as Sunday. So... nothing lost... I'm just not sure if I can repair the security of the forums or not... with all the clumsy damage you dumbfuck phpBB admins caused.

how much for unlmtd read access of private forums? paypal?

Do it Vonk!

[Goose_Man]

LIKE OMG CTFO

[Captain Insano]

thats it you little fucker, i'm taking off my belt!..

I remember the good ol' days when parenting involved screeching to a halt along the shoulder of a highway, and getting your ass whooped with a belt.

Kids would turn out so much better these days.