School Shootings
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Gargamellow
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There is a bill in Wisconsin, introduced by some politician, that will allow teachers, custodians, principals or any school employee to carry a weapon to school to protect the kids.
Last edited by Phlegm on Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
Its a bad idea to put guns in the hards of the teachers, I doubt it would protect them more and may just give them a false sence of security. They might be tempted to use it in a situation where not using it would be better. What happens when a techer is overpowered and his gun is used against others?
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Until you people get over the fact that you can't uninvent the gun, you can't prevent kids from obtaining them, you can't prevent them from getting them into schools without draconian measures that would make chinese prisons look liberating, you'll never understand the idea that being armed makes you and everyone around you safer.
Allowing teachers, or airline pilots, or every day citizens to arm themselves isn't necessarily the answer to problems, but it's the only viable option that will provide instant results.
That's the same sexist reason liberals give women when telling them to simply plead for their life while being raped rather than carrying a gun and deigning to fight back. It's bullshit.
Allowing teachers, or airline pilots, or every day citizens to arm themselves isn't necessarily the answer to problems, but it's the only viable option that will provide instant results.
What happens when a techer is overpowered and his gun is used against others?
That's the same sexist reason liberals give women when telling them to simply plead for their life while being raped rather than carrying a gun and deigning to fight back. It's bullshit.
Molon Labe
Minrott wrote:Until you people get over the fact that you can't uninvent the gun, you can't prevent kids from obtaining them, you can't prevent them from getting them into schools without draconian measures that would make chinese prisons look liberating, you'll never understand the idea that being armed makes you and everyone around you safer.
Allowing teachers, or airline pilots, or every day citizens to arm themselves isn't necessarily the answer to problems, but it's the only viable option that will provide instant results.What happens when a techer is overpowered and his gun is used against others?
That's the same sexist reason liberals give women when telling them to simply plead for their life while being raped rather than carrying a gun and deigning to fight back. It's bullshit.
You might feel safer knowing that every person around you is armed, but it sure as hell wouldn't make me feel safer. Knowing my child's teacher was armed in class would just make me worry more. You choose to assume that everyone will be as trustworth with a gun as you may be, the problem is every will not be.
Also sexist liberal comment has no baring on this. I dont think the woman should carry a gun because while it might save them from getting raped, what about the woman who uses it on the guy who tried to steal her purse? The teacher who tried to use it in a situation where its not called forand ends up causing more harm then would have even been caused had he not had the gun.
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
In the United States? Take away guns and only the criminals will have them, you think the crime is bad in this country now? Take away private ownership of guns and see how bad it gets. What... you think Jamal and gang down in da hood are gonna throw their hands in the air and say, "well dawgs we gotsta turn in dem guns now dat da law sayz dare illegal." Fuck no they're not. They're going to throw a party because now they KNOW their targets will be completely unarmed.
Canada has more guns per capita than the US - yet their crime rate is almost nill compared to ours. Guns aren't the problem, Arlos. Besides the day our very untrustworthy government tells me that guns are illegal is the day I pack move the fuck out of here. Taking away guns is a step toward a dictatorship.
Canada has more guns per capita than the US - yet their crime rate is almost nill compared to ours. Guns aren't the problem, Arlos. Besides the day our very untrustworthy government tells me that guns are illegal is the day I pack move the fuck out of here. Taking away guns is a step toward a dictatorship.
I am in no way for taking them away at this point. The genie is far far far too out of the bottle for that. Remember, I'm at least partly a pragmatist in my policy decisions. Trying to disarm this country would be like trying to ban the internet. Not gonna happen.
As for Canada, I'd be willing to bet that they have FAR fewer handguns than we do, per capita, and a far higher percentage of hunting rifles and shotguns. Honestly, the guns that most concern me are assault weapons and handguns. Also, there are FAR too many other factors involved in determination of crime rates to even be able to BEGIN to pin a causal relationship between gun ownership and crime rates in comparing US rates to Canadian rates. That's an unsupportable argument if ever there was one.
Anyway, remember, I saw my younger brother nearly killed when he was 3 years old by a negligent gun owner. Given how many negligent asshats can't take care of their guns NOW, the thought of a higher percentage of morons being armed doesn't exactly fill me with feelings of sweetness and light. Also, I know FAR too many people who are normal individuals sober, but belligerant as fuck drunk, and thus with a far higher propensity to USE a gun, were they to have one for me to feel at all confident about expanded ownership on that score either.
Sorry, but while I agree that trying to ban them outright now is futile at best, I am in no way for expanding their presence.
-Arlos
As for Canada, I'd be willing to bet that they have FAR fewer handguns than we do, per capita, and a far higher percentage of hunting rifles and shotguns. Honestly, the guns that most concern me are assault weapons and handguns. Also, there are FAR too many other factors involved in determination of crime rates to even be able to BEGIN to pin a causal relationship between gun ownership and crime rates in comparing US rates to Canadian rates. That's an unsupportable argument if ever there was one.
Anyway, remember, I saw my younger brother nearly killed when he was 3 years old by a negligent gun owner. Given how many negligent asshats can't take care of their guns NOW, the thought of a higher percentage of morons being armed doesn't exactly fill me with feelings of sweetness and light. Also, I know FAR too many people who are normal individuals sober, but belligerant as fuck drunk, and thus with a far higher propensity to USE a gun, were they to have one for me to feel at all confident about expanded ownership on that score either.
Sorry, but while I agree that trying to ban them outright now is futile at best, I am in no way for expanding their presence.
-Arlos
Last edited by Arlos on Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jay
If you look at statistics regarding guns there isn't any conclusive and consistent evidence that will prove either viewpoint on gun control. There's places with high crime and they don't allow conceal and carry. Like Chicago. There's places that don't allow conceal and carry and it's fine. Depends on a lot of things really. Personally, gun control isn't a big deal to me.
There are definitive statistics that in every single state that has 'shall issue' concealed carry, the violent crime rate declined in every case since it's inception. Chicago. Sure. How about Washington DC?
Look at the school shooting that was ended down south by a teacher who retrieved a weapon from his car.
I won't open the control can of worms. I don't think armed school employees is the answer. I think it's a bandaid, but an effective one. The answer is at home, and the answer won't happen. We've already handcuffed parents in the name of children. The schools teach kids to cry abuse whenever their parents deign to discipline them. Parents can't instill any thought of discipline into their children once they hit age 5 without fear of being acosted by child services. I'm not talking about just corporeal punishment, but any kind of stern discipline. Combine this with the fact that god knows how many of our young men are being raised without any type of decent father figure at all, they have no way to learn how to "be a man" without talking out frustrations on other people. They can't learn to deal with life's hardships in anyway but violence. Evey little thing builds up inside of them and they were never taught how to let it out by taking responsibility for themselves.
Every thing to kids these days is everyone elses fault. The shooting in Wisconsin here last week is the perfect example. This kid shot his principle because he got suspension for bringing tobacco to school. His answer to being disciplined for something hundreds of kids get disciplined for every day was to kill someone.
I would bet my life I know exactly how this kid was raised, exactly how he was treated by his parents, that he probably didn't have a stable or good father figure at any point in his childhood, and that he gave numerous signs of an unbalanced character prior to this incident. I in no way consider this an excuse, simply a background on what has to change in order to stop this kind of violence.
It falls on parents and parenting, and how so many of them destroy their kids chances at a decent character by either coddling them and giving in to their every whim their whole childhood, or don't give them a good example to live by.
Look at the school shooting that was ended down south by a teacher who retrieved a weapon from his car.
I won't open the control can of worms. I don't think armed school employees is the answer. I think it's a bandaid, but an effective one. The answer is at home, and the answer won't happen. We've already handcuffed parents in the name of children. The schools teach kids to cry abuse whenever their parents deign to discipline them. Parents can't instill any thought of discipline into their children once they hit age 5 without fear of being acosted by child services. I'm not talking about just corporeal punishment, but any kind of stern discipline. Combine this with the fact that god knows how many of our young men are being raised without any type of decent father figure at all, they have no way to learn how to "be a man" without talking out frustrations on other people. They can't learn to deal with life's hardships in anyway but violence. Evey little thing builds up inside of them and they were never taught how to let it out by taking responsibility for themselves.
Every thing to kids these days is everyone elses fault. The shooting in Wisconsin here last week is the perfect example. This kid shot his principle because he got suspension for bringing tobacco to school. His answer to being disciplined for something hundreds of kids get disciplined for every day was to kill someone.
I would bet my life I know exactly how this kid was raised, exactly how he was treated by his parents, that he probably didn't have a stable or good father figure at any point in his childhood, and that he gave numerous signs of an unbalanced character prior to this incident. I in no way consider this an excuse, simply a background on what has to change in order to stop this kind of violence.
It falls on parents and parenting, and how so many of them destroy their kids chances at a decent character by either coddling them and giving in to their every whim their whole childhood, or don't give them a good example to live by.
Molon Labe
That's been one of my points, pretty much, all along. Piss poor parenting. Now look, before someone here gets worked up into a tizzy - yes - I firmly believe there are some damn good parents out there. Not ever mother or father is an incompetent asshat. But, sadly, the vast majority are.
99% of the problems with this country come directly from THE HOME. Shitty parenting leads to fucktard adults... People bitch and moan about the quality of our education system, yet how many parents actually push their kids to learn anything? Parents do set the example for thier kids. What kind of messages do we [as a society] send when 60% of our marriages end in divorce, when 70% of all relationships suffer from cheating, when athletics are more important education?
Quality parenting leads to quality adults - shitty parenting leads to the average American in the hear and now.
99% of the problems with this country come directly from THE HOME. Shitty parenting leads to fucktard adults... People bitch and moan about the quality of our education system, yet how many parents actually push their kids to learn anything? Parents do set the example for thier kids. What kind of messages do we [as a society] send when 60% of our marriages end in divorce, when 70% of all relationships suffer from cheating, when athletics are more important education?
Quality parenting leads to quality adults - shitty parenting leads to the average American in the hear and now.
I was reading that article the other day and it really makes me sad when I sit down and think about it. The fact that this is the point we have to be at in society to be protected is really sad.
I don't know if I am scared of the idea or if I think it is a good idea, part of me thinks it might deter further shootings, part of me thinks of all the potential misuses of the weapon, just like Darc said.
I don't know if I am scared of the idea or if I think it is a good idea, part of me thinks it might deter further shootings, part of me thinks of all the potential misuses of the weapon, just like Darc said.
Donnel wrote:Erodalak wrote:Who needs an education when you are hawt like advina
fixt :P
