Obama obaby

[Lionking]

Clinton/Obama '08 Ticket. Book it.

[Ginzburgh]

Yeah, I like Obama. What dont you like about him Mindia? And please don't come back with a "if you're that retarded I'm not going to explain it to you" comment.

[Gargamellow]

I would vote for Hilary.

[araby]

what about experience? he doesn't seem to have much right now. with the shit we're in, we need someone to get us out of it and do it well.

[Lueyen]

I would vote for Hilary.

As near as I can tell the following was originally put together by Neal Boortz. I have been unable to find the context of the last quote which would be interesting to know, however after seeing a few posts here comparing Bush to Hitler I thought it might be interesting to see comments from people in this comparison not of events but of ideology.

Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all.

All our lives we fought against exalting the individual, against the elevation of the single person, and

long ago we were over and done with the business of a hero, and here it comes up again: the glorification of one personality.

This is not good at all.

There is the great, silent, continuous struggle: the struggle

between the State and the Individual; between the State which demands and the individual who attempts to evade such

demands.

Fascist ethics begin ... with the acknowledgment that it is not the individual who confers a meaning

upon society, but it is, instead, the existence of a human society which determines the human character of the individual.

According to Fascism, a true, a great spiritual life cannot take place unless the State has risen to a position of pre-eminence

in the world of man. The curtailment of liberty thus becomes justified at once, and this need of rising the State to its

rightful position.

The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual

and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community.

It is thus necessary that the individual should come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in

comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the individual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of

the nation as a whole ... that above all the unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the

spirit and will of an individual. .... This state of mind, which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of

the community, is really the first premise for every truly human culture .... we understand only the individual's capacity to

make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow man.

We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.

[araby]

interesting lueyen! I love your posts btw-post more

[Lueyen]

what about experience? he doesn't seem to have much right now. with the shit we're in, we need someone to get us out of it and do it well.

You know when I read this I considered that less "experience" might actually be in the publics favor. Chances are the less experience he has the less chance there is that he owes someone something or is in someone's pocket.
I'd rather have someone doing what they thought was best rather then someone who knows what is best but does something different due to pressure from entrenched political connections.

[Arlos]

Oh please.

ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live.

Every society with any trace of nationalism will talk up the individual sacrificing for the good of the whole. It's hardly unique to communist states, facist states, etc.

Go play your misleading propaganda games elsewhere.

-Arlos

[Lueyen]

Psst Arlos, it looks as if you are arguing with me... but you quoted another Democrat .

[Arlos]

Just in case you missed your history lessons, Lincoln wasn't a Democrat...

-Arlos

[Lueyen]

The Lincoln quote wasn't there when I replied :P.

[Zanchief]

Psst Arlos, it looks as if you are arguing with me... but you quoted another Democrat .

Oh, so you think Kennedy was a nazi.

[Lueyen]

Psst Arlos, it looks as if you are arguing with me... but you quoted another Democrat .

Oh, so you think Kennedy was a nazi.

No, I was pointing out that he used another person of the same political party (which would indicate some similarity in ideology) to back up the argument that the idea was a universal one.

[Arlos]

Of course, I had already obviated your argument by supplying a similar quote from someone from a VERY different time, and obviously belonging to a party bearing no resemblance to any modern party.

-Arlos

[Eziekial]

[quote="arlos"]Just in case you missed your history lessons, Lincoln wasn't a Democrat...

-Arlos[/quote]

Your joking right? The republican/democrate parties of the 1860's is not the same as the ones you have today. Reconstruction, Emancipation, Sherman Anti-trust act... all during "republican" control. Modern democrates would probably burst into flame if associated with their "party" ideology of the Lincoln era.

[Lueyen]

Of course, I had already obviated your argument by supplying a similar quote from someone from a VERY different time, and obviously belonging to a party bearing no resemblance to any modern party.

-Arlos

You edited your post, my response was previous to your edit, although I did have some trouble getting it to post, getting a site not found error. But I suppose in as much as I saw the JFK quote coming you probably saw my response coming.

Honestly the Lincoln quote is slightly different, as it's a dedication quote of a memorial, not urging people to pursue the future with a mindset toward state as opposed to individual. I'm quite sure we could find similar modern day Republican's saying something similar if we looked hard enough, bottom line is that we should be cautious of this sort of talk, like anything else it can be good, but taken to far it has propensity for disaster.


Oh and Eziekial... reread the last page or so, I don't think you followed the conversation.

Edit: to my sig picture off... realized it breaks up the threads pretty badly.

[Narrock]

Yeah, I like Obama. What dont you like about him Mindia? And please don't come back with a "if you're that retarded I'm not going to explain it to you" comment.

Hey as long as you're being civil, and not a smartass, you won't get that kind of comment from me. I don't like Obama because he's way too liberal for me, and I think he's an eloquent bullshit artist. That's why... in a nutshell.

For a list of reasons why I can't stand this guy just click on this link. It will save me from copy-and-pasting.

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

[Arlos]

Yes, the following positions are truly heinous and evil, and worthy of calling the man the son of Satan:

# Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
# Supports federal programs to protect rural economy. (May 2004)
# Tax incentives for corporate responsibility. (Jun 2004)
# Close tax loopholes for US companies relocating abroad. (Jun 2004)
# REAL USA Plan: Reward companies that create domestic jobs. (Jun 2004)
# Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
# Sponsored legislations that recruit and reward good teachers. (Sep 2004)
# Provide decent funding and get rid of anti-intellectualism. (Jul 2004)
# Address the growing achievement gap between students. (May 2004)
# Will add 25,000 teachers in high-need areas. (May 2004)
# Conserve, develop alternative fuels, increase efficiencies. (Oct 2004)
# Sponsored legislations that improve energy efficiency. (Sep 2004)
# US policy should promote democracy and human rights. (Jul 2004)
# Give our soldiers the best equipment and training available. (Jul 2004)
# Balance domestic intelligence reform with civil liberty risk. (Jul 2004)
# Voted YES on restricting business with entities linked to terrorism. (Jul 2005)
# Voted YES on restoring $565M for states' and ports' first responders. (Mar 2005)

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Yes, the following positions are truly heinous and evil, and worthy of calling the man the son of Satan:

# Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
# Supports federal programs to protect rural economy. (May 2004)
# Tax incentives for corporate responsibility. (Jun 2004)
# Close tax loopholes for US companies relocating abroad. (Jun 2004)
# REAL USA Plan: Reward companies that create domestic jobs. (Jun 2004)
# Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
# Sponsored legislations that recruit and reward good teachers. (Sep 2004)
# Provide decent funding and get rid of anti-intellectualism. (Jul 2004)
# Address the growing achievement gap between students. (May 2004)
# Will add 25,000 teachers in high-need areas. (May 2004)
# Conserve, develop alternative fuels, increase efficiencies. (Oct 2004)
# Sponsored legislations that improve energy efficiency. (Sep 2004)
# US policy should promote democracy and human rights. (Jul 2004)
# Give our soldiers the best equipment and training available. (Jul 2004)
# Balance domestic intelligence reform with civil liberty risk. (Jul 2004)
# Voted YES on restricting business with entities linked to terrorism. (Jul 2005)
# Voted YES on restoring $565M for states' and ports' first responders. (Mar 2005)

-Arlos

I don't disagree with everything that Obama supports. You also quoted only about 2% of his voting record.

[Arlos]

Oh, I know I didn't cut and paste everything. A fair amount was moderately esoteric, or effectively a duplicate.

I know pretty well which types of things that he supports that you'd be opposed to: He's against the war in Iraq, pro-stem cell research, pro choice, and pro universal health care. I still don't see what the man has done for you to go to the extreme of calling him the son of the devil. I mean, I certainly believe in all of those things, and you haven't called ME that, at least in a while. heh.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Oh, I know I didn't cut and paste everything. A fair amount was moderately esoteric, or effectively a duplicate.

I know pretty well which types of things that he supports that you'd be opposed to: He's against the war in Iraq, pro-stem cell research, pro choice, and pro universal health care. I still don't see what the man has done for you to go to the extreme of calling him the son of the devil. I mean, I certainly believe in all of those things, and you haven't called ME that, at least in a while. heh.

-Arlos

You're the devils cousin? hehe j/k

[Phlegm]

Obama has the same view about religion as you Mindia.

By DAVID ESPO
The Associated Press
Wednesday, June 28, 2006; 6:09 PM

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Barack Obama chastised fellow Democrats on Wednesday for failing to "acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people," and said the party must compete for the support of evangelicals and other churchgoing Americans.

"Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation. Context matters," the Illinois Democrat said in remarks to a conference of Call to Renewal, a faith-based movement to overcome poverty.

"It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase `under God,'" he said. "Having voluntary student prayer groups using school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats."

Obama, the only black in the Senate, drew national notice even before arriving in Congress last year, and has occasionally used his visibility to scold members of his own party. Widely sought as a fundraiser for other Democrats, Obama responded with a noncommittal laugh this spring when asked whether he wants a spot on the national ticket in 2008.

His speech included unusually personal references to religion, the type of remarks that usually come more readily from Republicans than Democrats.

"Kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," he said of his walk down the aisle of the Trinity United Church of Christ. "I submitted myself to his will and dedicated myself to discovering his truth."

Obama said millions of Christians, Muslims and Jews have traveled similar religious paths, and that is why "we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse. ... In other words, if we don't reach out to evangelical Christians and other religious Americans and tell them what we stand for, Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons will continue to hold sway."

Obama coupled his advice with a warning. "Nothing is more transparent than inauthentic expressions of faith: the politician who shows up at a black church around election time and claps _ off rhythm _ to the gospel choir."

At the same time, he said, "Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering the public square."

As a result, "I think we make a mistake when we fail to acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people and join a serious debate about how to reconcile faith with our modern, pluralistic democracy."

Obama mentioned leaders of the religious right briefly, saying they must "accept some ground rules for collaboration" and recognize the importance of the separation of church and state.

[araby]

Obama has the same view about religion as you Mindia.

that's incorrect. Obama was raised by a mother who does not claim a religion of her own although she learned a great deal about all of them and that is how he is also. mindia is nothing like that.

[Narrock]

Yeah, my parents are LCMS and have been forever.

[Minrott]

* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

fuck this guy